Foxx Posted April 9, 2017 Posted April 9, 2017 What a refreshing post worth talking about in a sea of suck that is this thread From day one....Tyrod has been a non conventional qb...a system qb....and to be successful I dont think they will be able to run a pure WCO....the success will come from the ability (or failure) in the ability of the coaches to use TT in a way that gets the most out of the talents he does have. i think one of the best ways to get the most out of his talents is to employ a lot of play-action passing while rolling him out. this way he doesn't have to strain to see over his offensive line and he has always been good throwing on the run. obviously they can't do that on every play, but i think a healthy mix of that combined with the read option off of the play-action and you will be placing Tyrod in the best position to succeed.
xRUSHx Posted April 9, 2017 Posted April 9, 2017 Still on a bridge with no exit same old Bills. QB driven league and wishing for a mircle season from some other teams backup QB.
jeffismagic Posted April 9, 2017 Posted April 9, 2017 Still on a bridge with no exit same old Bills. QB driven league and wishing for a mircle season from some other teams backup QB. My favorite theory is that Greg Roman and Anthony Lynn were working to hide Tyrod's incredible passing. The third choice on the Bills offensive coordinator chart (the first two turned us down) will unleash the Tyrod in 2017. Go Bills!!!
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted April 9, 2017 Posted April 9, 2017 I agree, McDermott is banking his young NFL HC career on Taylor, tanking is not in the plans... ....can we call the Patriots THE masters of Cheatergates and legitimately talk about "tanking" in the same sentence??...I'\d bet Goodell would love to hand out the inaugural "Tanking Team Of The Year" award at the Pro Bowl......
Bangarang Posted April 9, 2017 Posted April 9, 2017 Still on a bridge with no exit same old Bills. QB driven league and wishing for a mircle season from some other teams backup QB. We could still take a potential QB of the future in a few weeks. Keeping Tyrod doesn't mean McD and Whaley are content with him long term.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted April 9, 2017 Posted April 9, 2017 We could still take a potential QB of the future in a few weeks. Keeping Tyrod doesn't mean McD and Whaley are content with him long term. ....still struggling with processing the field after 6 years does not leave me with a confident outlook that his gray matter is "re-trainable".....how do you stop his propensity to depend on his wheels as the STEADY escape route?.....should be an ADDED dimension and not THE dimension........what happens when he gets KO'ed?....."run and done"?.....may have to add on to 17 years and waiting.....stay tuned............
3rdand12 Posted April 9, 2017 Posted April 9, 2017 Good for you if you believe that. Who am I to tell you that you shouldn't? We should all believe what we want to. Some choose to look at facts and base their beliefs on that, and others believe blindly or out of pure emotion. Whatever the reason...believe in what you wish to. And contrary to some posters here, I would welcome a scenario like the one you envision. I just don't believe in it. Fair post crusher my problem with Tyrod and the WCO. the west coast offense is basically a ball control passing offense. the running backs and tight ends are utilized as much, if not more so than the wide receivers. the design is intended to have the QB under center and to have a three or five step drop with a '21' personnel grouping. most of the routes are timing slants to WR's/TE's and/or swing passes to the backs out of the backfield. this is the hallmark of the 'ball control' aspect of the offense. again, the WCO is designed so that when the QB hits his fifth step he is supposed to release the ball. when the scheme calls for the vertical attack, with the 5 step drop, the QB is supposed to step up in the pocket and move around trying to find his target down field. another aspect is the play action pass that a mobile QB is supposed to be able to excel in. in this play call, the option is an option. i think it is pretty well known that Roman's offense is based upon the WCO and he ran it with great success in San Fran under Harbaugh utilizing Smith. what we saw in Buffalo was slightly different due to the fact that Rex wanted a significant ground game, however the elements of the WCO were still there. my doubts about Tyrod's ability to run the WCO stem from the play we have seen from him the past two years. for beginners, he is short for a QB. seeing over his offensive linemen to hit slants is going to be difficult. secondly, he panics in the pocket and often feels phantom pressure causing him to want to bolt and utilize his legs. then we have the scouting report from his college days that is still as accurate as the day he came out. in it, is says that his accuracy on short/intermediate levels is not very consistent. it also states that his anticipation and ability to 'throw receivers open' is not very good and he doesn't go through his progressions very good. all of which still plague him 6 years later. these are the reasons why i do not have a whole lot of belief that he will thrive in a pure WCO. now maybe Dennison is not going to run a pure WCO and hopefully will look to tailor the design of the offense to Tyrod's strengths. also, hopefully as the season progresses, i hope that Dennison finds what works and what doesn't, accentuating what does work and flushing what doesn't. i do not mean for this to sound pessimistic as that is not really my nature but if i am being honest, this is what my head tells me from everything we have seen the past two years, the information available and what they are saying they are going to do. one thing should be a sure bet, we are going to see primarily a pass control offense. i expect to see Tyrod put the ball up over 500 times this year. very good reading for me and some thoughts worth digesting over here. Thanks for the posting !
Figster Posted April 9, 2017 Posted April 9, 2017 ....still struggling with processing the field after 6 years does not leave me with a confident outlook that his gray matter is "re-trainable".....how do you stop his propensity to depend on his wheels as the STEADY escape route?.....should be an ADDED dimension and not THE dimension........what happens when he gets KO'ed?....."run and done"?.....may have to add on to 17 years and waiting.....stay tuned............ A more user friendly O and bigger, more physical playmakers thats how AFL Fair post crusher very good reading for me and some thoughts worth digesting over here. Thanks for the posting ! Crusher catches allot of grief for being honest, good poster. Nice post Foxx...
3rdand12 Posted April 9, 2017 Posted April 9, 2017 ....still struggling with processing the field after 6 years does not leave me with a confident outlook that his gray matter is "re-trainable".....how do you stop his propensity to depend on his wheels as the STEADY escape route?.....should be an ADDED dimension and not THE dimension........what happens when he gets KO'ed?....."run and done"?.....may have to add on to 17 years and waiting.....stay tuned............ Coaching. that will be the difference if he is to show better on the field. I have only one opinion about that. Bills seem to want to see what Tyrod can do for them and they him. Seems like fun to me ! New Bills seem to have a firm plan so far and seem to be thinking long term. Draft will be telling this year about what the McD plan is. How he fills the roster out. I have some faith in Whaley that he does offer players up to his Coaches preferences. Let's see what he does to shape the team. and whether they grab a QB and when. If they think they can be competitive with Taylor? Then so will I. Till otherwise notified at least A more user friendly O and bigger, more physical playmakers thats how AFL Crusher catches allot of grief for being honest, good poster. Nice post Foxx... The one reason i am ready to accept Howard as our first pick. Be a McD pick i think?
BillsFan4 Posted April 9, 2017 Posted April 9, 2017 (edited) Still on a bridge with no exit same old Bills. QB driven league and wishing for a mircle season from some other teams backup QB.What better QB was there to replace him with this year? There was no better free agents, and every QB in this draft is said to be at least a year or two away from being ready to start. Most NFL coaches don't have much of any interest in putting all their eggs in one basket and tying their entire head coaching career to some totally raw rookie QB coming from a college program where they've never had to call plays, read defenses or do many of the other things pro QBs are asked to do. A rookie who isn't even on the roster yet, mind you, and the Bills have no idea how the draft will unfold - who will be on their board when they pick. They probably didn't want to be absolutely forced to reach for whatever project QB is on their board for them at #10 this year either. Nothing at all wrong with that. I know you think that the Bills (and McDermott's) best option was to draft 2 rookie QBs this year (a 1st rounder and a later rounder) and let them all battle it out, and then draft another 1st round QB next year and do the same. But as many have said to you, that is just not a realistic plan. No teams do that because no coach wants his entire coaching career riding on a bunch of rookie QBs. McDermott feels that Tyrod will keep the Bills competitive until they find their true franchise QB. Oh the horror... I have faith McDermott and the Bills will address the QB position in a meaningful way within the next 2 seasons. He may choose to wait until next season, when he's had a chance to truly evaluate his team/roster, which is ok with me if that's what happens. But Tyrod's 2 year bridge deal tells me they will most likely add a QB this year or next (unless Tyrod somehow takes a huge step forward). Edited April 9, 2017 by BillsFan4
John from Riverside Posted April 9, 2017 Posted April 9, 2017 i think one of the best ways to get the most out of his talents is to employ a lot of play-action passing while rolling him out. this way he doesn't have to strain to see over his offensive line and he has always been good throwing on the run. obviously they can't do that on every play, but i think a healthy mix of that combined with the read option off of the play-action and you will be placing Tyrod in the best position to succeed. agreed
jeffismagic Posted April 9, 2017 Posted April 9, 2017 What better QB was there to replace him with this year? There was no better free agents, and every QB in this draft is said to be at least a year or two away from being ready to start. Most NFL coaches don't have much of any interest in putting all their eggs in one basket and tying their entire head coaching career to some totally raw rookie QB coming from a college program where they've never had to call plays, read defenses or do many of the other things pro QBs are asked to do. A rookie who isn't even on the roster yet, mind you, and the Bills have no idea how the draft will unfold - who will be on their board when they pick. They probably didn't want to be absolutely forced to reach for whatever project QB is on their board for them at #10 this year either. Nothing at all wrong with that. I know you think that the Bills (and McDermott's) best option was to draft 2 rookie QBs this year (a 1st rounder and a later rounder) and let them all battle it out, and then draft another 1st round QB next year and do the same. But as many have said to you, that is just not a realistic plan. No teams do that because no coach wants his entire coaching career riding on a bunch of rookie QBs. McDermott feels that Tyrod will keep the Bills competitive until they find their true franchise QB. Oh the horror... I have faith McDermott and the Bills will address the QB position in a meaningful way within the next 2 seasons. He may choose to wait until next season, when he's had a chance to truly evaluate his team/roster, which is ok with me if that's what happens. But Tyrod's 2 year bridge deal tells me they will most likely add a QB this year or next (unless Tyrod somehow takes a huge step forward). Based on what? Just curious.
BillsFan4 Posted April 9, 2017 Posted April 9, 2017 Based on what? Just curious. Based on Tyrod's restructured contract (I'm not even convinced they bring him back next year at his $18M cap hit as it sits currently), and on only having Tyrod and Cardale on the roster. Unless Tyrod somehow proves he is the long term answer this season or Cardale somehow develops into a legit starting QB by next season, I believe the Bills will address the QB position in the draft. Obviously it's just my opinion, but that is my guess as of right now. I also have very high hopes for Sean McDermott. I have been a fan of his for years. So maybe I am putting too much faith in him because of that. But as of now I am willing to let the next couple seasons play out before I freak out on McDermott for not immediately ditching Tyrod and addressing the QB situation in the 1st round this year. It probably helps that I am not real high on is year's QB class either...
jeffismagic Posted April 9, 2017 Posted April 9, 2017 (edited) Based on Tyrod's restructured contract (I'm not even convinced they bring him back next year at his $18M cap hit as it sits currently), and on only having Tyrod and Cardale on the roster. Unless Tyrod somehow proves he is the long term answer this season or Cardale somehow develops into a legit starting QB by next season, I believe the Bills will address the QB position in the draft. Obviously it's just my opinion, but that is my guess as of right now. I also have very high hopes for Sean McDermott. I have been a fan of his for years. So maybe I am putting too much faith in him because of that. But as of now I am willing to let the next couple seasons play out before I freak out on McDermott for not immediately ditching Tyrod and addressing the QB situation in the 1st round this year. It probably helps that I am not real high on is year's QB class either... Actually, there is plenty of tape on Tyrod and the Bills have never shown much urgency at the QB position. It's always an afterthought. Tyrod's contract goes to 18 million next year. If they cut him that's 6 million of dead cap. And that assumes they have drafted and developed a QB. I'll believe it when I see it. McDermott has never been a head coach or general manager. As a defensive coordinator he ran a bland 4-3 zone scheme. I see nothing to get excited over and there are now red flags that he is too conservative. The Tyrod signing screams fear to me and someone not comfortable in his role here. Edited April 9, 2017 by jeffismagic
xRUSHx Posted April 9, 2017 Posted April 9, 2017 We could still take a potential QB of the future in a few weeks. Keeping Tyrod doesn't mean McD and Whaley are content with him long term. Hey I agree they could but.... So many years of Whaley make me feel like Tyrod is who they will build around and maybe a very late rounder to sit around with CJ. I just don't see a top pick this year or next all I see is Chan/Fitz all over again with this staff. I will watch the draft with high hopes but sadly I have serous doubts. Got my fingers crossed but expected the same old Whaley. I'm at the point of counting the days of Whaley being fired I'm so sick of his QB purgatory in this QB driven league with so many failed playoff seasons using other teams backups with these staffs over and over again. Can't believe I still have my season tickets should just dump them till 2019 when Whaley is fired. I like your comment and I will hope you are right OTHERWISE it will be a long 2 years.
BillsFan4 Posted April 9, 2017 Posted April 9, 2017 Actually, there is plenty of tape on Tyrod and the Bills have never shown much urgency at the QB position. It's always an afterthought. Tyrod's contract goes to 18 million next year. If they cut him that's 6 million of dead cap. And that assumes they have drafted and developed a QB. I'll believe it when I see it. McDermott has never been a head coach or general manager. As a defensive coordinator he ran a bland 4-3 zone scheme. I see nothing to get excited over and there are now red flags that he is too conservative. The Tyrod signing screams fear to me and someone not comfortable in his role here. For some reason I thought there was no dead cap hit if Tyrod was released after this season. But you are right, there is. Its a $8.6M dead cap hit (or less spread out longer if designated post June 1st). So it does seem more likely Tyrod is back next year, then. I still feel they will most likely draft a QB this year or next though. Even if we don't draft one until next year, that gives them a full season to begin developing that QB (or 2 season if they draft 1 this year, or put that effort into developing Cardale). As for McDermott, he has had a top 10 defense 4 of the past 5 years. I don't think it was as bland as you, but if bland gets the Bills a top 10 defense most seasons, I will take it. I also believe he has a lot of the traits you look for in successful head coaches. He's also a Jim Johnson disciple, and says himself that he is aggressive, so I don't see where he will be too conservative. If you're referring to Leslie Frazier, I understand the concern with him. But he will be running McDermott's d scheme, not his own. But we will see I guess... He's a first time HC though, so none of us know if he will work out or not. But I love (most of) the staff he has put together, and I have much higher hopes for him than I have for Rex or Marrone or Gailey or Jauron (etc). I don't get why the Tyrod signing screams he's not comfortable in his role? Tyrod gives the Bills the best chance at winning next season out of all the options available (like him or not, he has had a top 12 scoring offense in both of his seasons as starting QB). Winning is how head coaches keep their job. It also seems to me that many head coaches have little interest in banking their entire career's on unproven rookie QBs (and that rookie hasn't even been drafted yet, unless you think he should have put his money on Cardale) except if that QB is more of a sure thing, top 3 pick type rookie QB. He is a first time HC. He doesn't have a winning track record and good will built up with the fans. The best way to ensure his job security is to win as many games as possible this season. Tyrod gives us a better chance at that than a raw, rookie project QB from this year's draft. I'd rather keep Tyrod and make a drafted QB legitimately earn the starting job.
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted April 9, 2017 Posted April 9, 2017 (edited) Actually, there is plenty of tape on Tyrod and the Bills have never shown much urgency at the QB position. It's always an afterthought. Tyrod's contract goes to 18 million next year. If they cut him that's 6 million of dead cap. And that assumes they have drafted and developed a QB. I'll believe it when I see it. McDermott has never been a head coach or general manager. As a defensive coordinator he ran a bland 4-3 zone scheme. I see nothing to get excited over and there are now red flags that he is too conservative. The Tyrod signing screams fear to me and someone not comfortable in his role here. never being a HC does not mean he wont have success. they all get their start somewhere and you have no clue whether he fails or succeeds anymore than I do. where do you get he's not comfortable in his role from? I know, because you post it, it must be true. Edited April 9, 2017 by DaBillsFanSince1973
Figster Posted April 9, 2017 Posted April 9, 2017 Coaching. that will be the difference if he is to show better on the field. I have only one opinion about that. Bills seem to want to see what Tyrod can do for them and they him. Seems like fun to me ! New Bills seem to have a firm plan so far and seem to be thinking long term. Draft will be telling this year about what the McD plan is. How he fills the roster out. I have some faith in Whaley that he does offer players up to his Coaches preferences. Let's see what he does to shape the team. and whether they grab a QB and when. If they think they can be competitive with Taylor? Then so will I. Till otherwise notified at least The one reason i am ready to accept Howard as our first pick. Be a McD pick i think? I have wanted an elite TE in Buffalo for so long 3rd we could be picking 5th and I would draft OJ
jeffismagic Posted April 9, 2017 Posted April 9, 2017 never being a HC does not mean he wont have success. they all get their start somewhere and you have no clue whether he fails or succeeds anymore than I do. where do you get he's not comfortable in his role from? I know, because you post it, it must be true. You are optimistic, that's great. He just does not inspire confidence in me. It also is important to note that the Pegulas made the hire. Their track record is horrendous so far. 0-6 with Bylsma soon to make that 0 for 7.
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted April 9, 2017 Posted April 9, 2017 You are optimistic, that's great. He just does not inspire confidence in me. It also is important to note that the Pegulas made the hire. Their track record is horrendous so far. 0-6 with Bylsma soon to make that 0 for 7. cautiously optimistic. willing to give him a chance before proclaiming failure. makes watching the game more interesting. if I knew or proclaimed failure whether a player or coach, looking for failure, I wouldn't even waste my time watching the game...
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