transplantbillsfan Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 (edited) Let me start by addressing your remarks on me telling people what they believe. Anyone that reads posts by yourself and a handful of others knows that you are absolutely committed to defending Taylor. You have gone well beyond defending TBH, and have moved into the obsessed category. You have blamed coaches, players, injuries, and every other reason in the book for Taylor's play, but nearly always fall short in your criticism for the man himself. What I've done is read what you and others have posted and have diagnosed it for what it is...again, it's easy to see. Talking out of both sides of your mouth is what you have been doing. Maybe you don't realize it...maybe you do. I'm just calling out the behavior for what it appears to be. Crusher, you read what you want to read, plain and simple. You discount anything negative I've ever said about Taylor, and I've said negative things, including saying countless times over the last 4 or 5 months that I don't think Taylor is the Bills long term answer at QB anymore but is, instead, a good momentary placeholder until the team finds its long term answer. That's what I've been saying because that's what I feel. That's What I Feel I feel it. I think it. But guess what, just because I feel and think that right now, I might change my mind in 2017 if Taylor plays really well. I have that right because there's more football to see with Taylor in a Bills uniform. You seem to view people who change their minds with derision. Frankly, it's a real character flaw if you're so stubborn you completely ignore reality and refuse to change your mind just because you held so steadfast to it for so long. There's no one with a clearer agenda than you and your horrid cult. You're aim is derision, plain and simple. It's a sad, sad agenda. You've publicly stated how excited you'd be to start slamming all pro-Tyrod posters. You diagnose away, but you're bad at it, so try keeping it to yourself, please. And there you go again finishing the post off with a criticism of the coaching staff the last two years. You have once again validated my original point, thanks. Read your post I responded to. Don't be a hypocrite. I know you have the mental capacity to compartmentalize arguments even if you're too stubborn and arrogant to actually do it. And did you really compare myself and others who use the CoT with the Klan? Holy cow! Well, that's what you guys are resembling. "Holy cow!" is right. You guys are pretty frightening in the way you're driven by your prejudiced mob mentality... Edited April 8, 2017 by transplantbillsfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusher Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 Crusher, you read what you want to read, plain and simple. You discount anything negative I've ever said about Taylor, and I've said negative things, including saying countless times over the last 4 or 5 months that I don't think Taylor is the Bills long term answer at QB anymore but is, instead, a good momentary placeholder until the team finds its long term answer. That's what I've been saying because that's what I feel. That's What I Feel I feel it. I think it. But guess what, just because I feel and think that right now, I might change my mind in 2017 if Taylor plays really well. I have that right because there's more football to see with Taylor in a Bills uniform. You seem to view people who change their minds with derision. Frankly, it's a real character flaw if you're so stubborn you completely ignore reality and refuse to change your mind just because you held so steadfast to it for so long. There's no one with a clearer agenda than you and your horrid cult. You're aim is derision, plain and simple. It's a sad, sad agenda. You've publicly stated how excited you'd be to start slamming all pro-Tyrod posters. You diagnose away, but you're bad at it, so try keeping it to yourself, please. Read your post I responded to. Don't be a hypocrite. I know you have the mental capacity to compartmentalize arguments even if you're too stubborn and arrogant to actually do it. Well, that's what you guys are resembling. "Holy cow!" is right. You guys are pretty frightening in the way you're driven by your prejudiced mob mentality... I read what I wanna read? You don't read what you post. This isn't me reaching for a conclusion...you have a longstanding, established pattern. Not just here, but long before here. What was it...19 out of 22 threads started on Taylor on the now deceased BBMB? What was the overall tone in those threads? Has it changed here? Do you really want to claim that you aren't obsessed and clearly think much more of him than you try to pass off? You're fooling no one. You wanna accuse posters of agendas and a prejudiced mob? Are you exempt because you are on the other side of the discussion? I'm truly shocked you chose to respond in this fashion. Maybe I gave you too much credit? And all of this hostility and name calling coming from you? This definitely reeks of a poster who has come unraveled. This cements the end of a viable discussion on your part, so I'll kindly walk away knowing I was the one who handled this topic with common decency and stayed above the fray. Sorry you couldn't maintain. I truly didn't think you would come unglued over what was simple discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 I have an agenda, it's true, oh it's damn true. It seeps into almost every post I make. My agenda is to get a quarterback who passes the ball well and then win a Superbowl. I have to admit that this agenda comes before everything else for me and I'm biased because of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 I read what I wanna read? You don't read what you post. This isn't me reaching for a conclusion...you have a longstanding, established pattern. Not just here, but long before here. What was it...19 out of 22 threads started on Taylor on the now deceased BBMB? What was the overall tone in those threads? Has it changed here? Do you really want to claim that you aren't obsessed and clearly think much more of him than you try to pass off? You're fooling no one. You wanna accuse posters of agendas and a prejudiced mob? Are you exempt because you are on the other side of the discussion? I'm truly shocked you chose to respond in this fashion. Maybe I gave you too much credit? And all of this hostility and name calling coming from you? This definitely reeks of a poster who has come unraveled. This cements the end of a viable discussion on your part, so I'll kindly walk away knowing I was the one who handled this topic with common decency and stayed above the fray. Sorry you couldn't maintain. I truly didn't think you would come unglued over what was simple discussion. I hope despite all the hot air you just continue to put out here that continues to twist reality that you step away from the mob, take some deep breaths, and start considering what people have actually been saying rather than twisting whatever has been said in order to fit into your narrative. You can feign your high road exit and we can drop this here, but I seriously think you need to "reboot" again and change your approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 my problem with Tyrod and the WCO. the west coast offense is basically a ball control passing offense. the running backs and tight ends are utilized as much, if not more so than the wide receivers. the design is intended to have the QB under center and to have a three or five step drop with a '21' personnel grouping. most of the routes are timing slants to WR's/TE's and/or swing passes to the backs out of the backfield. this is the hallmark of the 'ball control' aspect of the offense. again, the WCO is designed so that when the QB hits his fifth step he is supposed to release the ball.when the scheme calls for the vertical attack, with the 5 step drop, the QB is supposed to step up in the pocket and move around trying to find his target down field. another aspect is the play action pass that a mobile QB is supposed to be able to excel in. in this play call, the option is an option.i think it is pretty well known that Roman's offense is based upon the WCO and he ran it with great success in San Fran under Harbaugh utilizing Smith. what we saw in Buffalo was slightly different due to the fact that Rex wanted a significant ground game, however the elements of the WCO were still there.my doubts about Tyrod's ability to run the WCO stem from the play we have seen from him the past two years. for beginners, he is short for a QB. seeing over his offensive linemen to hit slants is going to be difficult. secondly, he panics in the pocket and often feels phantom pressure causing him to want to bolt and utilize his legs.then we have the scouting report from his college days that is still as accurate as the day he came out. in it, is says that his accuracy on short/intermediate levels is not very consistent. it also states that his anticipation and ability to 'throw receivers open' is not very good and he doesn't go through his progressions very good. all of which still plague him 6 years later.these are the reasons why i do not have a whole lot of belief that he will thrive in a pure WCO. now maybe Dennison is not going to run a pure WCO and hopefully will look to tailor the design of the offense to Tyrod's strengths. also, hopefully as the season progresses, i hope that Dennison finds what works and what doesn't, accentuating what does work and flushing what doesn't. i do not mean for this to sound pessimistic as that is not really my nature but if i am being honest, this is what my head tells me from everything we have seen the past two years, the information available and what they are saying they are going to do. one thing should be a sure bet, we are going to see primarily a pass control offense. i expect to see Tyrod put the ball up over 500 times this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Gun Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 my problem with Tyrod and the WCO. the west coast offense is basically a ball control passing offense. the running backs and tight ends are utilized as much, if not more so than the wide receivers. the design is intended to have the QB under center and to have a three or five step drop with a '21' personnel grouping. most of the routes are timing slants to WR's/TE's and/or swing passes to the backs out of the backfield. this is the hallmark of the 'ball control' aspect of the offense. again, the WCO is designed so that when the QB hits his fifth step he is supposed to release the ball. when the scheme calls for the vertical attack, with the 5 step drop, the QB is supposed to step up in the pocket and move around trying to find his target down field. another aspect is the play action pass that a mobile QB is supposed to be able to excel in. in this play call, the option is an option. i think it is pretty well known that Roman's offense is based upon the WCO and he ran it with great success in San Fran under Harbaugh utilizing Smith. what we saw in Buffalo was slightly different due to the fact that Rex wanted a significant ground game, however the elements of the WCO were still there. my doubts about Tyrod's ability to run the WCO stem from the play we have seen from him the past two years. for beginners, he is short for a QB. seeing over his offensive linemen to hit slants is going to be difficult. secondly, he panics in the pocket and often feels phantom pressure causing him to want to bolt and utilize his legs. then we have the scouting report from his college days that is still as accurate as the day he came out. in it, is says that his accuracy on short/intermediate levels is not very consistent. it also states that his anticipation and ability to 'throw receivers open' is not very good and he doesn't go through his progressions very good. all of which still plague him 6 years later. these are the reasons why i do not have a whole lot of belief that he will thrive in a pure WCO. now maybe Dennison is not going to run a pure WCO and hopefully will look to tailor the design of the offense to Tyrod's strengths. also, hopefully as the season progresses, i hope that Dennison finds what works and what doesn't, accentuating what does work and flushing what doesn't. i do not mean for this to sound pessimistic as that is not really my nature but if i am being honest, this is what my head tells me from everything we have seen the past two years, the information available and what they are saying they are going to do. one thing should be a sure bet, we are going to see primarily a pass control offense. i expect to see Tyrod put the ball up over 500 times this year. I can agree with this. Tough schedule, Taylor not going to do well in WCO, Bills option to rid Taylor after 1 year, looks to me like a planned 3-13 season and high draft pick for Darnold next year. Tanking without admitting they are tanking. Oh those tricky Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 I can agree with this. Tough schedule, Taylor not going to do well in WCO, Bills option to rid Taylor after 1 year, looks to me like a planned 3-13 season and high draft pick for Darnold next year. Tanking without admitting they are tanking. Oh those tricky Bills. I bet my bottom dollar McD is not going to tank. I also do not see a 3-13 season. no, IMO, they contend regardless of schedule and finish above .500, 10-6 and a wildcard. tank talk is so weak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 I bet my bottom dollar McD is not going to tank. I also do not see a 3-13 season. no, IMO, they contend regardless of schedule and finish above .500, 10-6 and a wildcard. tank talk is so weak. i don't know what the final record is going to be, but i don't think tanking is the objective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 (edited) i don't know what the final record is going to be, but i don't think tanking is the objective. I don't know either. I'm just throwing out my opinion. I know one thing. I don't see how any fan can (not saying you Foxx) support tanking with the thought that it would guarantee a draft position the following season? not saying don't draft one, just move up and get him if you want him that badly. it's not like this team or any other has not moved up to get who they want. it's a crap shoot anyway so the best scenario for the team and the fans is go out there and contend for wins. they may still struggle to win or they may rack some wins up but I sure wouldn't want to watch a team I support who intentionally tanks and loses games just for a draft position. McD does not give me the impression he would be the type to intentionally lose (tank) football games. he has shown so far that he means business which gives me confidence going in to the season... Edited April 8, 2017 by DaBillsFanSince1973 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figster Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 I bet my bottom dollar McD is not going to tank. I also do not see a 3-13 season. no, IMO, they contend regardless of schedule and finish above .500, 10-6 and a wildcard. tank talk is so weak. i don't know what the final record is going to be, but i don't think tanking is the objective. I agree, McDermott is banking his young NFL HC career on Taylor, tanking is not in the plans... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 I agree, McDermott is banking his young NFL HC career on Taylor, tanking is not in the plans... If he does that then he will just be another failed defensive coordinator turned head coach. He should talk to his buddy Leslie Frazier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_with_it Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 The only thing Jeff Garcia and Tyrod have in common is the ability to make throws on the run. Besides that...nothing. Garcia was smart and made quick decisions. He also had a good feel for the pocket and adjusted to what the defense was giving him. Tyrod is the complete opposite of that. Once again...if this staff thought so highly of Tyrod, they wouldn't have left him in the dark about what the planned on doing with him, and they certainly wouldn't have asked him to take a whole lot less guaranteed money with no assurances that he's on the roster beyond next season. Tyrod is endorsed by this staff because he was the best choice for stability at the position next season at the price they liked. Stability is one thing...liking him as the guy to take them to the promised land is another. Are you insinuating Tyrod is dumb?Once again no staff tells the player what they intend to do when there are contract negotiations thats ridiculous for even saying that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_with_it Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 They have had the opportunity to do so at least twice. Yet they didn't. so..... ask yourself, why is that? they havent had the chance the first year Tyrod stated he chose Buffalo. I mean I guess you are insinuating they could have held Tyrod hostage pur him in a Broncos uniform and force him to play year before last... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 my problem with Tyrod and the WCO. the west coast offense is basically a ball control passing offense. the running backs and tight ends are utilized as much, if not more so than the wide receivers. the design is intended to have the QB under center and to have a three or five step drop with a '21' personnel grouping. most of the routes are timing slants to WR's/TE's and/or swing passes to the backs out of the backfield. this is the hallmark of the 'ball control' aspect of the offense. again, the WCO is designed so that when the QB hits his fifth step he is supposed to release the ball. when the scheme calls for the vertical attack, with the 5 step drop, the QB is supposed to step up in the pocket and move around trying to find his target down field. another aspect is the play action pass that a mobile QB is supposed to be able to excel in. in this play call, the option is an option. i think it is pretty well known that Roman's offense is based upon the WCO and he ran it with great success in San Fran under Harbaugh utilizing Smith. what we saw in Buffalo was slightly different due to the fact that Rex wanted a significant ground game, however the elements of the WCO were still there. my doubts about Tyrod's ability to run the WCO stem from the play we have seen from him the past two years. for beginners, he is short for a QB. seeing over his offensive linemen to hit slants is going to be difficult. secondly, he panics in the pocket and often feels phantom pressure causing him to want to bolt and utilize his legs. then we have the scouting report from his college days that is still as accurate as the day he came out. in it, is says that his accuracy on short/intermediate levels is not very consistent. it also states that his anticipation and ability to 'throw receivers open' is not very good and he doesn't go through his progressions very good. all of which still plague him 6 years later. these are the reasons why i do not have a whole lot of belief that he will thrive in a pure WCO. now maybe Dennison is not going to run a pure WCO and hopefully will look to tailor the design of the offense to Tyrod's strengths. also, hopefully as the season progresses, i hope that Dennison finds what works and what doesn't, accentuating what does work and flushing what doesn't. i do not mean for this to sound pessimistic as that is not really my nature but if i am being honest, this is what my head tells me from everything we have seen the past two years, the information available and what they are saying they are going to do. one thing should be a sure bet, we are going to see primarily a pass control offense. i expect to see Tyrod put the ball up over 500 times this year. I love this post even though I don't agree with all of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Gun Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 I bet my bottom dollar McD is not going to tank. I also do not see a 3-13 season. no, IMO, they contend regardless of schedule and finish above .500, 10-6 and a wildcard. tank talk is so weak. Yo man, I don't agree with tanking either but it sure does seem like they are up to something, and it isn't +.500 or 10-6. IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 my problem with Tyrod and the WCO. the west coast offense is basically a ball control passing offense. the running backs and tight ends are utilized as much, if not more so than the wide receivers. the design is intended to have the QB under center and to have a three or five step drop with a '21' personnel grouping. most of the routes are timing slants to WR's/TE's and/or swing passes to the backs out of the backfield. this is the hallmark of the 'ball control' aspect of the offense. again, the WCO is designed so that when the QB hits his fifth step he is supposed to release the ball. when the scheme calls for the vertical attack, with the 5 step drop, the QB is supposed to step up in the pocket and move around trying to find his target down field. another aspect is the play action pass that a mobile QB is supposed to be able to excel in. in this play call, the option is an option. i think it is pretty well known that Roman's offense is based upon the WCO and he ran it with great success in San Fran under Harbaugh utilizing Smith. what we saw in Buffalo was slightly different due to the fact that Rex wanted a significant ground game, however the elements of the WCO were still there. my doubts about Tyrod's ability to run the WCO stem from the play we have seen from him the past two years. for beginners, he is short for a QB. seeing over his offensive linemen to hit slants is going to be difficult. secondly, he panics in the pocket and often feels phantom pressure causing him to want to bolt and utilize his legs. then we have the scouting report from his college days that is still as accurate as the day he came out. in it, is says that his accuracy on short/intermediate levels is not very consistent. it also states that his anticipation and ability to 'throw receivers open' is not very good and he doesn't go through his progressions very good. all of which still plague him 6 years later. these are the reasons why i do not have a whole lot of belief that he will thrive in a pure WCO. now maybe Dennison is not going to run a pure WCO and hopefully will look to tailor the design of the offense to Tyrod's strengths. also, hopefully as the season progresses, i hope that Dennison finds what works and what doesn't, accentuating what does work and flushing what doesn't. i do not mean for this to sound pessimistic as that is not really my nature but if i am being honest, this is what my head tells me from everything we have seen the past two years, the information available and what they are saying they are going to do. one thing should be a sure bet, we are going to see primarily a pass control offense. i expect to see Tyrod put the ball up over 500 times this year. What a refreshing post worth talking about in a sea of suck that is this thread From day one....Tyrod has been a non conventional qb...a system qb....and to be successful I dont think they will be able to run a pure WCO....the success will come from the ability (or failure) in the ability of the coaches to use TT in a way that gets the most out of the talents he does have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 my problem with Tyrod and the WCO. the west coast offense is basically a ball control passing offense. the running backs and tight ends are utilized as much, if not more so than the wide receivers. the design is intended to have the QB under center and to have a three or five step drop with a '21' personnel grouping. most of the routes are timing slants to WR's/TE's and/or swing passes to the backs out of the backfield. this is the hallmark of the 'ball control' aspect of the offense. again, the WCO is designed so that when the QB hits his fifth step he is supposed to release the ball. when the scheme calls for the vertical attack, with the 5 step drop, the QB is supposed to step up in the pocket and move around trying to find his target down field. another aspect is the play action pass that a mobile QB is supposed to be able to excel in. in this play call, the option is an option. i think it is pretty well known that Roman's offense is based upon the WCO and he ran it with great success in San Fran under Harbaugh utilizing Smith. what we saw in Buffalo was slightly different due to the fact that Rex wanted a significant ground game, however the elements of the WCO were still there. my doubts about Tyrod's ability to run the WCO stem from the play we have seen from him the past two years. for beginners, he is short for a QB. seeing over his offensive linemen to hit slants is going to be difficult. secondly, he panics in the pocket and often feels phantom pressure causing him to want to bolt and utilize his legs. then we have the scouting report from his college days that is still as accurate as the day he came out. in it, is says that his accuracy on short/intermediate levels is not very consistent. it also states that his anticipation and ability to 'throw receivers open' is not very good and he doesn't go through his progressions very good. all of which still plague him 6 years later. these are the reasons why i do not have a whole lot of belief that he will thrive in a pure WCO. now maybe Dennison is not going to run a pure WCO and hopefully will look to tailor the design of the offense to Tyrod's strengths. also, hopefully as the season progresses, i hope that Dennison finds what works and what doesn't, accentuating what does work and flushing what doesn't. i do not mean for this to sound pessimistic as that is not really my nature but if i am being honest, this is what my head tells me from everything we have seen the past two years, the information available and what they are saying they are going to do. one thing should be a sure bet, we are going to see primarily a pass control offense. i expect to see Tyrod put the ball up over 500 times this year. One note in response to a solid post: your concern about him passing from under center on those 5 step drops and play action passes seem to conflict with the aspects of his passing game he's been pretty strong in over the last 2 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 I can agree with this. Tough schedule, Taylor not going to do well in WCO, Bills option to rid Taylor after 1 year, looks to me like a planned 3-13 season and high draft pick for Darnold next year. Tanking without admitting they are tanking. Oh those tricky Bills. McDermott isn't planning on tanking... I think that's pretty clear considering he convinced Kyle to come back. That alone is pretty solid evidence considering where Kyle is in his career. So if what you're saying is true, our GM allowed our HC to bring back a guy our HC thought he could win with but our GM thought he could not win with. Seems really far fetched, but if true this team might be in serious trouble upstairs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 McDermott isn't planning on tanking... I think that's pretty clear considering he convinced Kyle to come back. That alone is pretty solid evidence considering where Kyle is in his career. So if what you're saying is true, our GM allowed our HC to bring back a guy our HC thought he could win with but our GM thought he could not win with. Seems really far fetched, but if true this team might be in serious trouble upstairs... Also....Marcel by the shape he came in NON manditory camp is pretty telling as well This team is not planning on tanking this upcoming season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 Yo man, I don't agree with tanking either but it sure does seem like they are up to something, and it isn't +.500 or 10-6. IMO yo yo. glad you don't agree with tanking, right on. no problem you don't agree with +.500 or 10-6. but man, I can not agree with 3-13. all good though, opinions, everybody has one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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