Alphadawg7 Posted March 19, 2017 Posted March 19, 2017 (edited) I just Googled Walsh and Druckenmiller and found this... And then there's Jim Druckenmiller. In 1997 the 49ers made the fateful decision to ignore Bill Walsh's recommendation of Jake Plummer and instead used their 26th overall pick to select QB Jim Druckenmiller out of Virginia Tech. I was a fan of Jake the Snake dating back to Arizona State but I was quick to sell myself on the big bad Druckenmiller. He had a huge arm and played in a pro style offense with the Hokies. What wasn't there to love about the guy? Turns out plenty. http://www.ninersnation.com/2011/4/15/2111698/49ers-top-10-nfl-draft-busts-no-1-jim-druckenmiller-quarterback My bad it was Mariucci...Walsh actually liked Garcia too who hadn't played for them yet. But he and the 49ers still saw the Stokes as the next Rice and traded a bounty to move up to 10 to pick him, including a pick that eventually became Ray Lewis. Point is, all GM's are right FAR less than they are wrong. All the greats have missed way more than they have hit. Shanahan liking Carr doesnt make him a guru as Carr was one of the better QB prospects in that draft, lots of GM's liked him. Edited March 19, 2017 by Alphadawg7
Riverboat Richie Posted March 19, 2017 Posted March 19, 2017 I don't think that will happen. there are too many teams that need a QB and this class is not anywhere near as bad as the EJ/Geno class of 2013. I get the feeling it's going to look more like the 2011 QB draft. But that's just me.
Boatdrinks Posted March 19, 2017 Posted March 19, 2017 This stuff gets so over exaggerated. The great Bill Walsh that found Montana drafted Jim Drunkenmiller and called him the next Montana. He also traded up for JJ Stokes and called him the next Rice. GM's say this stuff all the time, mostly they are wrong, but they when they guess right they are now the next Nostradamus while they ignore the hundreds of players they were wrong about. Its like when they always show Daniel Negreanu guess exactly what the other poker players cards are on TV...they don't show you the 100 times prior to that he guessed wrong. Hes a huge TT troller around here, you will get used to it. Yes , even great coaches, GM s miss on guys, but Bill Walsh wasn't the 49ers coach or GM in 1995 or 1997 and didn't draft either of those players.
JohnC Posted March 20, 2017 Posted March 20, 2017 For every Matt Stafford and David Carr there are a hundred Akili Smith, Jack Lockers, Brian Brohms, Mark Sanchez, Matt Leinarts, Andre Ware, Ryan Leaf, Blain Gabberts, etc. Nothing before the draft is accurate...nothing...because none of them have played a down in the NFL yet. All you can do is make your best guess based on your analysis of the prospect at his ability to succeed in the NFL. There is a TON that goes into that, including fitting the system that team wants to build. And cherry picking success stories to validate REACHING for a QB is a bit silly. I mean by that logic, why isnt anyone advocating to use our first pick on one of the QBs believed to be going in the 5th or 6th rounds and posting Bradys pre-draft grade to validate it? Or drafting a guy at 10 who is bagging groceries right now because it worked for the Rams with Kurt Warner... I mean you can't cherry pick a success story and then apply it to all future scenarios. I don't understand your logic. What you are basically saying is that drafting a qb is a big risk not worthy of taking. The reality is for a team that hasn't had a franchise qb for over 20 years drafting a qb high is well worth the risk. What your logic fails to acknowledge is that backs, receivers, offensive linemen, defensive linemen, linebackers, DBs drafted highly can also fail. What is also true is that the best opportunity for a team to succeed, even a team with many flaws, is to have a legitimate franchise qb. The Derek Carr example is a lesson that the obtuse Bills organization have never learned from. It represents why this hollow organization is too irrelevant to bother mocking. Carr, among many other qbs, is a qb that we bypassed on allowing another downtrodden franchise to catapult ahead of us. The qb is a difference maker who even when rated lower as a prospect compared to the other positional players can make a dramatic difference for a franchise. This timid and cautious approach to securing the qb position is the type of approach that has kept this franchise mired in the muck of mediocrity. So what do you suggest? Let's eagerly take the same cowardly approach toward the draft that has gotten this franchise to being the league's symbol for irrelevance. The Bills used a high first round draft on Gilmore, a CB. Where is he now? He is on the Pats roster because we declined to sign him when he went into his second contract. The Bills used a first round pick on Clements, a CB. What happened to him? Again, when his contract was completed the organization refused to sign him after his first contract was completed. So your suggestion is: let's do what we have been doing? Does that make sense? The basis of our disagreement deals with how we assess this year's qb class. I'm confident that there are at least four high quality qb prospects that when properly developed will be legitimate franchise qbs. You believe otherwise. The constant mantra of let's wait another year for the better qb prospect is a franchise killing mantra that has infected this malignant organization. Fear of failure is a recipe for failure. If you don't try--- you don't succeed.
Kirby Jackson Posted March 20, 2017 Posted March 20, 2017 Actually, we don't really differ on this...I simply mean that I'd always be looking for a QB to draft if I'm not sold on the ones that I have. I agree that there's no value to taking a guy simply to satisfy a self-imposed requirement So we are in agreement (shocking)
FireChan Posted March 20, 2017 Posted March 20, 2017 I don't understand your logic. What you are basically saying is that drafting a qb is a big risk not worthy of taking. The reality is for a team that hasn't had a franchise qb for over 20 years drafting a qb high is well worth the risk. What your logic fails to acknowledge is that backs, receivers, offensive linemen, defensive linemen, linebackers, DBs drafted highly can also fail. What is also true is that the best opportunity for a team to succeed, even a team with many flaws, is to have a legitimate franchise qb. The Derek Carr example is a lesson that the obtuse Bills organization have never learned from. It represents why this hollow organization is too irrelevant to bother mocking. Carr, among many other qbs, is a qb that we bypassed on allowing another downtrodden franchise to catapult ahead of us. The qb is a difference maker who even when rated lower as a prospect compared to the other positional players can make a dramatic difference for a franchise. This timid and cautious approach to securing the qb position is the type of approach that has kept this franchise mired in the muck of mediocrity. So what do you suggest? Let's eagerly take the same cowardly approach toward the draft that has gotten this franchise to being the league's symbol for irrelevance. The Bills used a high first round draft on Gilmore, a CB. Where is he now? He is on the Pats roster because we declined to sign him when he went into his second contract. The Bills used a first round pick on Clements, a CB. What happened to him? Again, when his contract was completed the organization refused to sign him after his first contract was completed. So your suggestion is: let's do what we have been doing? Does that make sense? The basis of our disagreement deals with how we assess this year's qb class. I'm confident that there are at least four high quality qb prospects that when properly developed will be legitimate franchise qbs. You believe otherwise. The constant mantra of let's wait another year for the better qb prospect is a franchise killing mantra that has infected this malignant organization. Fear of failure is a recipe for failure. If you don't try--- you don't succeed. Some would believe that you need to take the #1 kicker instead of your highest QB prospect. Some also believe you should never take a QB if he isn't clera and away the best person on your board. Basically, if we don't get Elway, Peyton, or Luck coming out with the #1 overall, there's just no reason to take a QB. I mean, we have a hole at safety. Much better off drafting for need and patching that hole.
turftoe Posted March 20, 2017 Posted March 20, 2017 Living about 20 minutes away from Clemson University, I have had the chance to see a lot of Deshaun Watson the past couple of years. I'm pretty sure he will be the first QB taken, and possibly, ahead of Buffalo at #10. He is a winner, plain and simple. He can make all the throws and has had great coaching. His accuracy may not be the best but he has so many other outstanding qualities that I just don't see him lasting too long on day 1 of the draft. If he were there at 10, I would have no problem with the Bills drafting him. He would have some time behind Tyrod. I'm not that high on Kizer. His game went downhill this past year. A red flag to me. I went and watched a bunch of videos on Mahomes. He is a gun-slinger for sure. What I like the most about him is his pocket presence and accuracy. His footwork is pretty bad but he still has accuracy. I read that he has been working with our old OC Mike Sheppard to fix some of his footwork problems. If he has time to develop and good coaching, I think he could be one of the best QBs of this draft. Trubisky has upside as well. Brad Kaaya could be another 2-3 round guy that could develop into a quality QB.
harv shitz Posted March 20, 2017 Posted March 20, 2017 If you like a QB enough to draft him in the 1st, then take him at 10. Agree. If Watson is there, take him! This kid has all the intangibles you could want. Physically he's extremely gifted, comes from a winning conference and program, and has won huge games. No, just no Bills have much bigger needs to address than QB Strongly disagree. That thought process is exactly why we haven't had even a decent quarterback since Kelly retired. There is no more pressing need than QB for this team.
gobilz Posted March 20, 2017 Posted March 20, 2017 Worst QB draft in years. Yes, let's mortgage the future to get one.funny
Alphadawg7 Posted March 20, 2017 Posted March 20, 2017 Some would believe that you need to take the #1 kicker instead of your highest QB prospect. Some also believe you should never take a QB if he isn't clera and away the best person on your board. Basically, if we don't get Elway, Peyton, or Luck coming out with the #1 overall, there's just no reason to take a QB. I mean, we have a hole at safety. Much better off drafting for need and patching that hole. Actually nobody says any of that. But keep going.
FireChan Posted March 20, 2017 Posted March 20, 2017 Actually nobody says any of that. But keep going. Those are all logically consistent with your argument.
jeffismagic Posted March 20, 2017 Posted March 20, 2017 Here is the first draft for Dick Jauron and Marv Levy in 2006. Year Rnd Player Pick Pos To AP1 PB St CarAV G Cmp Att Yds TD Int Att Yds TD Rec Yds TD Int Sk College/Univ 2006 1 Donte Whitner 8 DB 2016 0 3 9 50 157 11 3.0 Ohio St. 2006 1 John McCargo 26 DT 2011 0 0 0 3 44 2.5 North Carolina St. 2006 3 Ashton Youboty 70 DB 2011 0 0 0 8 49 2 2.0 Ohio St. 2006 4 Ko Simpson 105 DB 2009 0 0 2 13 41 3 1.0 South Carolina 2006 5 Kyle Williams 134 DT 2016 0 5 9 68 151 1 40.5 LSU 2006 5 Brad Butler 143 T 2009 0 0 2 13 33 0 0 0 Virginia 2006 6 Keith Ellison 178 LB 2010 0 0 3 19 58 1 6 0 2 2.0 Oregon St. 2006 7 Terrance Pennington 216 T 2007 0 0 1 4 16 New Mexico 2006 7 Aaron Merz 248 G 2006 0 0 0 1 7 California 3 DB's in the first 4 picks. More than a decade later Bills fans want the beatings to continue until morale improves.
dpberr Posted March 20, 2017 Posted March 20, 2017 No to trading back. No to trading back for a quarterback.
jeffismagic Posted March 20, 2017 Posted March 20, 2017 Awful. They lucked out with Kyle Williams and Brad Butler wasn't bad before he got tired of football. But the thought process was filling needs and patching holes with high picks. And that same thought process seems to be in play at One Bills Drive.
Alphadawg7 Posted March 20, 2017 Posted March 20, 2017 They lucked out with Kyle Williams and Brad Butler wasn't bad before he got tired of football. But the thought process was filling needs and patching holes with high picks. And that same thought process seems to be in play at One Bills Drive. Oh there is the fact that the draft you posted has: 1. Nothing to do with this coaching staff. 2. Nothing to do with this current roster. 3. Nothing to do with this GM. 4. Nothing to do with these owners. 5. Nothing to do with the needs of this team. 6. Nothing to do with the prospects in this draft. 7. Nothing to do with the draft order in this draft. 8. Nothing to do with how teams will around us will draft. So posting that draft has literally no relevance to anything in regards to today.
FireChan Posted March 20, 2017 Posted March 20, 2017 Oh there is the fact that the draft you posted has: 1. Nothing to do with this coaching staff. 2. Nothing to do with this current roster. 3. Nothing to do with this GM. 4. Nothing to do with these owners. 5. Nothing to do with the needs of this team. 6. Nothing to do with the prospects in this draft. 7. Nothing to do with the draft order in this draft. 8. Nothing to do with how teams will around us will draft. So posting that draft has literally no relevance to anything in regards to today. Except this: They lucked out with Kyle Williams and Brad Butler wasn't bad before he got tired of football. But the thought process was filling needs and patching holes with high picks. And that same thought process seems to be in play at One Bills Drive. That's been the Bills MO these last few years.
ndirish1978 Posted March 20, 2017 Posted March 20, 2017 NO. This is a terrible idea. If there is no one worth taking at 10, then there is absolutely no one worth wasting a FUTURE 1st rd pick on to trade up. We need MORE picks, not less.
JohnC Posted March 20, 2017 Posted March 20, 2017 NO. This is a terrible idea. If there is no one worth taking at 10, then there is absolutely no one worth wasting a FUTURE 1st rd pick on to trade up. We need MORE picks, not less. The smart approach is not to trade up but to trade down. What I would advocate is to trade down and select a qb, and then use the extra pick or two to hedge your selection. Whaley has too often gratuitously given up picks to move up for a player he coveted, such as the Watkins deal. That was done in a draft rich with receivers. It was also done in moving up to get Ragland, giving up a pick that could have been used for Prescott. Instead Whaley selected Cardale over the qb he rated higher. (At least that is what was rumored?)
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