JohnC Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 Some of you are just inexplicably naive about the subject. When Marv took over as GM he said he wanted players who wanted to be Buffalo Bills............and he soon had a stack of parole requests....Clements talked him into waiving the franchise tag...and Eric Moulds, Willis McGahee......even Takeo Spikes who was recruited by loving Bills fans all asked for and received trades. That was blood in the water for that shark Eugene Parker.....a team that accommodating was an easy mark......which lead to the Peters and Byrd sagas......as well as Schobel quitting because he only wanted to play for a losing team if he could stay home in Texas during the week and just show up for games. It was UTTERLY out of control........and Lynch was the last one permitted to leave.........since then, players have been forced to play out their sentence........and they know that's how it's going to be so they don't bother with the theatrics. As a GM Marv was simply incompetent. He was out of his depth and he was wise enough to know it. However, many of the players that you mentioned who departed were not all the result of Marv wanting to create a loyal choir boy atmosphere. When Marv took over that was the time that Ralph imposed strangling financial restrictions that were enforced through Littman. During that period of time the Bills went back to their mom and pop operation while the rest of the league was in the modern age. There was no way that the Buffalo horse and buggy could keep pace with the race cars.
Hardcore Bills Fan Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 Maybin or Tom Cousineau Cousineau was the best pick we ever made imo. If it wasnt for him no glory years to follow
Greybeard Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 (edited) Again dating myself, but Bills drafted Ernie Davis, and Lance Alworth was still on the board, Not sure if Kemp could have thrown that far, but 0 vs. HOF is a pretty bad first round pick... Calling Ernie Davis a bad pick is beyond my comprehension. That was also during the AFL-NFL draft wars, so you can't put anyone on the list who happened to go to the NFL. I am not sure it was mentioned but there was a running back from Penn State that could never play due to health reasons. I still wouldn't call him a bust. Edited March 21, 2017 by Greybeard
Dave in Avon Lake now Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 I didn't check every page but does anyone remember Walt Patulski?
mannc Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 (edited) I didn't check every page but does anyone remember Walt Patulski?You apparently don't. He was far from a bust. Four-year starter, who made 22-sacks (in an era when sacks were much rarer), and was thereafter traded for a second round pick that turned into Joe Devlin. Edited March 21, 2017 by mannc
george c Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 EJ Manuel was by far the biggest bust in Bills history, and it's a long way to second.
row_33 Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 EJ Manuel was by far the biggest bust in Bills history, and it's a long way to second. nah, too recent in memory, everyone can take a shot at him and those who angrily defended him right up to week 8 of 2016 are trying to cleanse their soles/souls.
DasNootz Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 Stating EJ Manuel is the worst just shows recency bias. That year was absolutely brutal at QB in hindsight. We were at 8, traded back to 16, got the top QB on our board and a pick that later became Kiko Alonso. From the last 20 years: "Obvious - not Monday morning QB - F#ck-ups" Mike Williams at #4 when Bryant McKinnie should have been the pick. Donte Whitner at #8 when Ngata should have been the pick Aaron Maybin at at #11 when Orakpo should have been the pick "Misses"John McCargo #26 CJ Spiller at #9 - we had RB depth at the time, but some loved the pick at the time
Big Turk Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 (edited) With the draft coming up I was thinking about the number of terrible first round picks we have made in the past. A lot of the members here may eclipse my memory of this teams drafting woes as I started following the Bills during the Super Bowl years as a young lad and am sure I missed some disappointing picks in the past. That being said I'd love to know the opinions of this informed board. Here we go... Worst 1st round pick for me: CJ Spiller An enormous bust outside of his 1 year with Chan running the show. This was a pick we did not need to make and definitely jumped the gun when making this decision. During this time we had Marshawn Lynch, Fred Jackson and Joique Bell filter through our RB corps. Marshawn was misbehaving and shown the door, then promptly made us look like idiots when the Seahawks surprised everyone beating the Saints while Beast Mode was showered in skittles after an indestructible run. Joique Bell landed with the Lions and became their #1 RB over time, obviously not on the level of Marshawn talent wise but made a significant positive impact on their team. And Fred Jackson who essentially saved our asses when's CJ showed his inability to be a true workhorse back. CJ Spiller was a huge disappointment and a bad pick when we had a bevy of talent with the team already. Who's your bugaboo, your oopsies, the player picked in the first that made you throw up in your mouth a bit? Mods, if this has been discussed then by all means close the thread. It's not even close....it's Walt Patulski 1st overall pick in the 1972 draft and the dude played 4 years here and did very little. Yes, he was better than Aaron Maybin and some of the others, but they weren't #1 overall picks. That matters. They had their choice of any player they wanted and ended up with him. Patulski is ranked #27 on the all-time NFL bust list, FYI Edited March 21, 2017 by matter2003
mannc Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 It's not even close....it's Walt Patulski 1st overall pick in the 1972 draft and the dude played 4 years here and did very little. Yes, he was better than Aaron Maybin and some of the others, but they weren't #1 overall picks. That matters. They had their choice of any player they wanted and ended up with him. Patulski is ranked #27 on the all-time NFL bust list, FYI Wrong. Not even close to a bust.
row_33 Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 Calling Ernie Davis a bad pick is beyond my comprehension. That was also during the AFL-NFL draft wars, so you can't put anyone on the list who happened to go to the NFL. I am not sure it was mentioned but there was a running back from Penn State that could never play due to health reasons. I still wouldn't call him a bust. I assume if they know anything about ED then it's a really bad attempt at humor. But the new generation is stats driven, they tell me Namath and Bradshaw were lousy QBs because of their stats, so who knows...
BADOLBILZ Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 (edited) As a GM Marv was simply incompetent. He was out of his depth and he was wise enough to know it. However, many of the players that you mentioned who departed were not all the result of Marv wanting to create a loyal choir boy atmosphere. When Marv took over that was the time that Ralph imposed strangling financial restrictions that were enforced through Littman. During that period of time the Bills went back to their mom and pop operation while the rest of the league was in the modern age. There was no way that the Buffalo horse and buggy could keep pace with the race cars. Actually Marv was just naive........he believed wholeheartedly that the Patriots had won with a roster heavy with scrubs by virtue of chemistry.......he said as much and then he tried to recreate their "chemistry" by signing 15(?) scrub free agents in his first offseason.......some of them to embarrassingly overpaid deals that had the league laughing. What he didn't know of course was that the Pats had cheated their way thru their "scrub" phase. But Marv took the bait HARD and decided if you didn't want to be a Buffalo Bill.......you weren't part of the "team chemistry" solution........which was no doubt also based in part on an era where he had been the HC and players wanted to play for the Bills because they were a perennial SB contender, had an owner who paid his players well and a coach who ran camps like a resort. The Bills were poorly run......no doubt.......but there was a f*cked up method to what he did. Edited March 21, 2017 by #BADOL
row_33 Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 That was just plain sad bringing Marv back. I hope it was meant in a cynical way,
BillsfaninChicago Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 Man I will never forget on the old BBMB draft day 2006 someone saying "Whitner,McCargo, Youboty and Ko Simpson. Marv got us 4 first rounders in the first 4 rounds!"
Bill from NYC Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 (edited) Actually Marv was just naive........he believed wholeheartedly that the Patriots had won with a roster heavy with scrubs by virtue of chemistry.......he said as much and then he tried to recreate their "chemistry" by signing 15(?) scrub free agents in his first offseason.......some of them to embarrassingly overpaid deals that had the league laughing. What he didn't know of course was that the Pats had cheated their way thru their "scrub" phase. But Marv took the bait HARD and decided if you didn't want to be a Buffalo Bill.......you weren't part of the "team chemistry" solution........which was no doubt also based in part on an era where he had been the HC and players wanted to play for the Bills because they were a perennial SB contender, had an owner who paid his players well and a coach who ran camps like a resort. The Bills were poorly run......no doubt.......but there was a f*cked up method to what he did. I remember Levy saying in a press conference that the Bills would be spending "cash to cap." This was clearly another limit imposed by Mr. Wilson. This made his drafts even worse because there was no rookie cap. They paid Donte Whitner in the neighborhood of 36 million dollars 11 years ago when this was worth that much more. Ngata would have cost a lot less and they could have traded back and drafted him or other players who were far superior to Whitner, AND got extra picks. Once after Levy left, the team was bad in all areas and was getting slaughtered. A reporter asked Marv what he thought the problem was, and Marv said "special teams." He was serious. Remember they were running a "smash mouth" offense with no blocking? I am not going to badmouth Marv at his age. Let's just say that I am hard pressed to understand how he was able to coach an NFL team to 4 super bowls. Edited March 21, 2017 by Bill from NYC
Kirby Jackson Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 I've told the story on here before but Marv was sound asleep (literally) for hours during the pre-draft meetings. He didn't make any picks. He couldn't have had less power. Every scout in that building had more of a say than Marv. Modrak ran those drafts and John Guy FA.
GoBills808 Posted March 22, 2017 Posted March 22, 2017 Understandable as an answer, and the sun is setting quick on him, but he's not even top 10 worst. Not understandable, at all. Watkins on a first round pick bust list? His sun is setting? Wha?
BobChalmers Posted March 22, 2017 Posted March 22, 2017 (edited) CJ Spiller was a good football player for the Bills. This is the dumbest thread ever. And Mike Williams was a no-brainer pick, can't hold that one against the Bills. I hold Torell Troup and TJ Graham against the Bills. +10 Maybin was awful AND a reach - Dick Jauron being stupid trying to save his job. Whitner over Ngata (Jauron again, come to think of it - Ngata was too slow to play his scheme they said) Erik Flowers/McCargo, two more reaches and a non players Edited March 22, 2017 by BobChalmers
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