Rob's House Posted March 17, 2017 Posted March 17, 2017 I'm just glad I get to hear the inane lines about him having "all the physical tools" and just needing time/coaching to develop one last time.
Captain_Quint Posted March 17, 2017 Posted March 17, 2017 I wonder if the Raiders message board will also largely struggle to not spell his name "Manual" I think its pronounced 'Man-well' in Oakland.
Elite Poster Posted March 17, 2017 Posted March 17, 2017 What is the biggest critique of refugees in Europe? They don't assimilate to their new home's culture and norms. Sound familiar? Not sure what you are getting at here.
TPS Posted March 17, 2017 Posted March 17, 2017 This is why comp picks are so important. If you let your top FAs go and get an extra 3rd (or more), then you can use it to draft a QB every year, and you won't feel so bad when he turns out to be an EJ Trent Losman.
gatorbait Posted March 17, 2017 Posted March 17, 2017 Not sure what you are getting at here.Read the thread. Some of the new people don't like following the rules of the board. Also we have jokingly been referring to the new members as refugees.
BuffaLoko Posted March 17, 2017 Posted March 17, 2017 Huge, slightly inaccurate generalization: If you have Arm Strength, Decision Making, and Accuracy, you are a top five pick. If you have Arm Strength, and decent hope for the other two, you are a first round pick and usually are worth less than your draft pick. If you have arm strength and doubts about the other two you are a later round pick. If you have the other two but questionable arm strength you are Drew Brees/Tom Brady, you exceed your draft slot. EJ definitely paid the price for a lot of the turmoil and stuff, and didn't quite get a fair shake, but at the time of his draft, he was a question mark on accuracy, and a question mark on decision making, which makes him not really a first round pick. He proved those doubters (and most NFL team rankings of him) right, but never improving those two qualities enough to be an NFL QB. I'm not sure what Oakland is hoping for, but clipboard and keeping your starting QB healthy, and EJ seems like a good dude. +1 Looks like some of you guys think that the same scout team (or GM for that purpose) that discovered Derek Carr, doesn´t know how to evaluate QBs and signed EJM by mistake ... ok, good he is now gone, that will save a few repeated theads...
Beef Jerky Posted March 17, 2017 Posted March 17, 2017 First off, not defending EJ at this point. A great guy with catastrophic accuracy/footwork issues - I wish him all the best in Oakland. However, I think there are some lessons to be learned as we think about the future of the Bills at the QB position. - There has not been a consensus stud QB coming out of the draft since 2012 with Andrew Luck. I don't mean that there have not been good QBs (Winston, Mariota, Carr, probably Garoppolo), but all have come with faults and the NFL intelligence community has been divided on them. The college ranks are producing guys that need significant development. - This speaks to the need to have a coherent offensive philosophy and in-house coaching that has a realistic ability/track record to take a young QB from point A to point B. Everyone knew the Bills needed a QB in 2013, all the available QBs were project-type guys, EJ probably did have the best physical tools, but there was absolutely no reason to think that Marrone-Hackett had the capacity to mould a young QB. What a waste of a pick to put into the hands of those guys. The kid never looked better than his first two games. - Some fans talk like drafting 1st round QBs is a quick fix. There is no quick fix and we need an in-house infrastructure that can actually prove that it can develop a QB to a competent level. That is why I'm eager to see Cardale this summer - whatever his future ends up being. He is a moldable player that could demonstrate our current staff's ability to develop. Not one person said drafting a first round QB is a quick fix. If you don't have it you never will at the level needed to win in the NFL... Simple as that. You get better by playing not sitting on the sidelines watching the other bad QB play. The Bills have only drafted 5 QBs since Jim Kelly retired (1996), that is PATHETIC.
cd1 Posted March 17, 2017 Posted March 17, 2017 For real. This is getting old quick. Follow the rules hippie You're not special The 2 Holmes threads, 2 EJ threads and 15 Taylor threads are fun though Perhaps when this happens a Moderator should just combine it with the original thread. Problem solved.
Maury Ballstein Posted March 17, 2017 Posted March 17, 2017 (edited) Perhaps when this happens a Moderator should just combine it with the original thread. Problem solved. Maybe the moderators have real jobs and don't want to spend every hour of every day on here like some of us nuts do. Follow the rules !! Edited March 17, 2017 by Ryan L Billz
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted March 17, 2017 Posted March 17, 2017 (edited) ....some guy named Steve Young (yup, the HOF'er with some rings, BUT limited knowledge(cough)) said the "reason why more collegiate QB's fail at the NFL level is because of the speed and complexity of the game, something their college careers did not prepare them for"....what the hell does HE know?....Manuel fell in the majority that did NOT make it despite his efforts...BUT...look at the ones that "allegedly" did make "it" and are extorting NFL QB paychecks other than Rodgers, Smith, Luck and perhaps Dak SO FAR(in the last DECADE) that have actually earned their checks?..laughable how 'lil keyboard cowards pontificate about their knowledge ...hell, this is like the PG-13ville of BBMB...... Edited March 17, 2017 by OldTimeAFLGuy
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 18, 2017 Posted March 18, 2017 I really don't think anyone believes drafting a qb in the first round is a quick fix. Almost any drafted qb will need development and the kind of infrastructure you allude to. I have some hope for Cardale Jones, but I would still like to grab a qb early, though our needs at wr and cb may preclude that. Trust me, plenty here who think it is. There are plenty who think drafting any QB in the 1st 4 rounds is a "quick fix". Oh, and if he doesn't look like "all that and a bag of chips" right out of the gate, fire the GM Good post, by the way. I think the decision to resign Taylor says that the Bills really aren't big fans of any QB in this draft. They may pick one up in the 3rd or 4th round, or they may not.
Fan in Chicago Posted March 18, 2017 Posted March 18, 2017 I think the decision to resign Taylor says that the Bills really aren't big fans of any QB in this draft. They may pick one up in the 3rd or 4th round, or they may not. I dont think so, Hapless. I still think the Bills will draft a QB with one of their first 2 picks and go WR with the other (then D the rest of the way). They kept a known devil in TT being fully aware of his limitations. No other QB out there would have provided this to the Bills at this time. Once the rookie or CJ is ready, they will play if better than TT. The Bills avoided a desperation pick like EJ was. This gives them the luxury to get the value guy at their pick.
Tcali Posted March 18, 2017 Posted March 18, 2017 EJ Manuel: A very nice young man.-Its a shame the dream story never works in Buffalo. Losman cleaned up the city of Buffalo and embraced the town..... Doug Flutie--saves the Bills then screwed over by Ralph the incompetent. Rex the bigmouth embraced the town and would have been a bigmouth evil hero......if only he weren't such a horrible coach...
KD in CA Posted March 18, 2017 Posted March 18, 2017 However, I think there are some lessons to be learned as we think about the future of the Bills at the QB position. There's only one lesson to learn, which is the same lesson the Bills refused to learn after their 2004 debacle. Don't draft a QB who isn't good enough to play pro ball just because you really, really need a new QB and/or the guy you really, really wanted was already picked. I watched EJ play a bunch of times at Miami and it never once occurred to me I was watching a future NFL QB. The reason for that is because while he was an ok college QB, he was horrible if you looked at him as a pro prospect.
Chilly Posted March 18, 2017 Posted March 18, 2017 My thoughts as EJ walks out the door: "woohoo!!!!"
BobbyC81 Posted March 18, 2017 Posted March 18, 2017 Huge, slightly inaccurate generalization: If you have Arm Strength, Decision Making, and Accuracy, you are a top five pick. If you have Arm Strength, and decent hope for the other two, you are a first round pick and usually are worth less than your draft pick. If you have arm strength and doubts about the other two you are a later round pick. If you have the other two but questionable arm strength you are Drew Brees/Tom Brady, you exceed your draft slot. EJ definitely paid the price for a lot of the turmoil and stuff, and didn't quite get a fair shake, but at the time of his draft, he was a question mark on accuracy, and a question mark on decision making, which makes him not really a first round pick. He proved those doubters (and most NFL team rankings of him) right, but never improving those two qualities enough to be an NFL QB. I'm not sure what Oakland is hoping for, but clipboard and keeping your starting QB healthy, and EJ seems like a good dude. Now if the Bills would sign the Raiders backup QB for the past 2 years, McGloin, I'll take that exchange.
billspro Posted March 18, 2017 Posted March 18, 2017 In the off-season of 2013 the Bills handled their QB situation poorly. Kolb was signed as the veteran stop gap but the team probably should have been more aggressive in the market finding other options as far as having a pair of competent veteran QB's. Maybe had the team got a couple of Kyle Orton type QB's they would have been more comfortable at the position enough to not feel like they had to get a QB in the draft. The made an excellent trade down to pick up an extra 2nd round pick and they could have gotten a lot of talented players at pick 16. Instead the team felt compelled to reach for EJ since they needed a QB. EJ wasn't the right player and it wasn't the right time. EJ probably would have been best suited to play behind a talented veteran QB for 2-3 years. Learn the game slowly spend years working on footwork and mastering a system. EJ has the work ethic, the smarts, and the physical tools he just lacked the technique and footwork to be successful in the pros. Had he been in a good spot after being drafted maybe he could have worked out. But the Bills were not that spot, at best they maybe could have sat him for a year but they were forced to go with EJ early and the results showed. That is why I am so happy we kept Tyrod. If we let him go we would have put ourselves in the exact same situation. Keep Tyrod until we draft someone that can beat him out.
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted March 18, 2017 Posted March 18, 2017 I really don't think anyone believes drafting a qb in the first round is a quick fix. Almost any drafted qb will need development and the kind of infrastructure you allude to. I have some hope for Cardale Jones, but I would still like to grab a qb early, though our needs at wr and cb may preclude that. Except all the people who insist that we have to lose to draft a QB as high as possible. Which is an embarrassing number of people here. Yeah, that's where I was going with it. Right before be re-signed Tyrod there were a lot of people banging down the door for a QB at ten. There are still a large number of people who think that we need to get a QB in the early rounds and cut bait ASAP *cough*Ryan*cough*. Things I will remember about EJ's time in Buffalo: His comeback against the Panthers in the home opener of his rookie season. His picture perfect handoffs to Fred Jackson. His beautiful touchdown pass to JJ Watt. His 7 TD performance against the Jaguars in London. I own 10,000 shares of EJMLL. Please share your fondest EJ memories. Honestly, the Panthers game is the one I hope to remember. That was the first year that I began going regularly to the Bills Backers when it used to be at MacFaddens in Philadelphia. I remember I got in early to get a seat at the bar with a prime view of the TV. When we scored the first touchdown, the waitress went onto the bar and poured a shot down everyone's throat. I can remember the last play of the game: I was rising to my feet when I saw Stevie wide open and the ball in the air. I don't know if I ever cheered quite as hard when the catch was made. They started pouring champagne to the people at the bar then.
Bill from NYC Posted March 18, 2017 Posted March 18, 2017 To further this point: Manuel's OCs were Hackett, Roman, and Lynn; and his QB coaches were Hackett, Downing, Lee, and Vrable. In four years. You're not developing any quarterback with that sort of coaching turnover, no matter where he's drafted. This post seems to imply that coaching was the only thing holding EJ back from stardom. It was not. There were some physical issues and certainly some mental issues as well. Tom, if teams thought coaching was his only problem, he would have been offered a HUGE contract instead of a chance to be third string on the Raiders. That is why I'm eager to see Cardale this summer - whatever his future ends up being. He is a moldable player that could demonstrate our current staff's ability to develop.I hope that you are right but this imo, is a huge reach. How do we know if Cardale is "moldable." Isn't he a 4th round pick who lost his starting job in college. He seems to have a few tools. So did RJ and so did Losman.
cd1 Posted March 18, 2017 Posted March 18, 2017 Maybe the moderators have real jobs and don't want to spend every hour of every day on here like some of us nuts do. Follow the rules !! There is no need to take that tone with me! I have NOT started a thread let alone one that offends you so much. You TBD guys might have issues with some of the refugees BUT we are not all causing issues. XI - Thou Shalt Not Lump.
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