John from Riverside Posted March 16, 2017 Posted March 16, 2017 I thought what I stated was obvious since we all see the same reports. So you do in fact no have an inside source Stop formulating your posts like you do We don't know the play call but it shows he's not doing a good job scanning the field....unless you think Taylor was intended to be a one or two read QB. Yes all QB's miss open receivers but they also capitalize (at least the good ones) very often as well. Hovering 2 years in a row at the bottom of the league in passing....we struggled. Anthony Lynn stated our passing game wasn't there all season at the end of last year. He wanted a better passing game, in his own words "it would have opened out offense more". When Lynn stated that we dont know what he actually MEANT by that He could just have easily said that plays were not in the playbook that he would have ran....but being in season he wasnt going to change it up too much. Yes....Tyrod missed open receivers the underneath to O'Leary while waiting for things to develop downfield was an obvious one.....but once again I say....run that all 22 on ALL NFL qbs before we start using it as a tool to say how bad TT is.
Big Gun Posted March 16, 2017 Posted March 16, 2017 Is the All 22 supposed to tell us what the exact play call was on any given play? What does it matter what plays were called guys were open and if Tyrod went through his progressions or could read a defense at the line pre snap he would have found numerous open WR all season long. He left tons of plays on the field.
Royale with Cheese Posted March 16, 2017 Posted March 16, 2017 (edited) So you do in fact no have an inside source Stop formulating your posts like you do When Lynn stated that we dont know what he actually MEANT by that He could just have easily said that plays were not in the playbook that he would have ran....but being in season he wasnt going to change it up too much. Yes....Tyrod missed open receivers the underneath to O'Leary while waiting for things to develop downfield was an obvious one.....but once again I say....run that all 22 on ALL NFL qbs before we start using it as a tool to say how bad TT is. Lynn specifically stated anticipation and downfield throws about Tyrod. I even stated all QB's miss open receivers but they also capitalize...a lot more than we do. Edited March 16, 2017 by Teeflebees
Maury Ballstein Posted March 16, 2017 Posted March 16, 2017 (edited) When Lynn stated that we dont know what he actually MEANT by that . Oh my god. My sweet John. Edited March 16, 2017 by Ryan L Billz
Royale with Cheese Posted March 16, 2017 Posted March 16, 2017 Oh my god. My sweet John. He's reaching for sure
Maury Ballstein Posted March 16, 2017 Posted March 16, 2017 He's reaching for sure Just wait Til the season starts. It'll get better.
John from Riverside Posted March 16, 2017 Posted March 16, 2017 Lynn specifically stated anticipation and downfield throws about Tyrod. I even stated all QB's miss open receivers but they also capitalize...a lot more than we do. Based on the offensive scheme we run that is ball dominant? Im not saying TT does not miss open receivers....he does What does it matter what plays were called guys were open and if Tyrod went through his progressions or could read a defense at the line pre snap he would have found numerous open WR all season long. He left tons of plays on the field. Jesus your right? We should be like 3rd in scoring offense instead of 6th......basturd!
Royale with Cheese Posted March 16, 2017 Posted March 16, 2017 Based on the offensive scheme we run that is ball dominant? Im not saying TT does not miss open receivers....he does I don't know how else you can interpret what he said. He was asked if there was anything on the offense he wished was better. He said the passing offense...it wasn't there all season. They could have opened it up more if they had that. They (John Murphy) what areas of improvement that Tyrod needed. He said anticipation and downfield throws. He also said he loves that he's safe with the ball but too safe at times.
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted March 16, 2017 Posted March 16, 2017 insert the popcorn emoji here. Based on the offensive scheme we run that is ball dominant? Im not saying TT does not miss open receivers....he does Jesus your right? We should be like 3rd in scoring offense instead of 6th......basturd! Low turnover rate and running abilities kept TT around. I imagine that if TT was more of a passing QB to go with the great running game. I too think the Bills would be in the top 3 teams in scoring. The play calling under Roman went stale and he proved he was too stubborn to make any changes. A Lynn, with no experience carried on with a less complicated playbook, but it too got too predictable. The message was out to all of the NFL teams. To stop the Bills you stop the run and it worked. What hurt Taylor was the offenses poor performances running 2 minute drills and the inability to overcome a 4 point deficit in the 4th QTR. Twice in 2 seasons doesn't cut it.
transplantbillsfan Posted March 16, 2017 Author Posted March 16, 2017 (edited) I'll tell you what, I'll do it if you will. You are quick to suggest work for other people and avoid it yourself. As soon as you finish the study you suggest, I'll do my own and we can compare. If I'm lazy, what are you? Waiting to see the results of your study. And since you apparently mean by "narrow minded" a person who doesn't eat, breathe, drink, smoke and dream about Tyrod 24/7, yeah, I guess by those standards I'm narrow-minded. And actually, seriously, you are the first to call me that. The very first. That's context. I've been called arrogant a few times on the internet, with some justification. Sarcastic. Snarky. Those are things I work on, but I could definitely stand to improve. But never narrow-minded. Why on earth would I do a study of something that's your own incomplete and flawed argument? It reminds me of last summer when you constantly brought up how the deep middle third of the field was a huge problem for Taylor. The central aspect of your argument was that QBs need to throw to all sides of the field evenly to become less predictable. Your argument was about frequency. I remember it very, very well. Last Summer I did the work you should have done yourself. I went across the NFL and found every passing chart I could find for ever QB I could find. Do you remember what I found? I'm not asking that as a rhetorical question, because your persistence on constantly mentioning the deep middle still tells me you just seem to block out arguments with proof that counter your own. What I found was that QBs across the NFL throw to the deep middle of the field VERY LITTLE. Like less than 10% if I remember correctly. Translation: Taylor was (and is) pretty much on par throwing the football to the deep middle portion of the field. I gave you numbers. I gave you evidence. It was stuff you should have been researching yourself because your argument was utterly incomplete without it. You ignored and continue to ignore it. That's why I'm not going to put in work for another argument your making that's utterly incomplete. Do it yourself, or understand that your argument is little more than a house of cards. Glad I'm the first to call you narrow-minded. Maybe tunnel-vision would be better just because of the connotations of the other. Maybe you'll broaden your perspective a bit. Edited March 16, 2017 by transplantbillsfan
billsintaiwan Posted March 16, 2017 Posted March 16, 2017 Good post. I wonder if he takes some deeper drops this year. Apparently that helped with Wilson and brees vision-wise. Deeper drops with mills at RT is a bit worrisome though.
Patrick Duffy Posted March 16, 2017 Posted March 16, 2017 Trans, I know sometimes some of the posters push your buttons with your Tyrod threads, but I just wanted to say I for one enjoy them myself. I enjoyed them over at the old board also. I think you post good info and make good points when it comes down to the QB position. A lot of ppl would not take the time for threads like that. Anyway, just wanted to say that lol. Keep up the good info man.And I will share my gummy bears with you.
GoBills808 Posted March 16, 2017 Posted March 16, 2017 Common theme among the Tyrod detractors is to bring up Wentz. Which lead me to believe you didn't pay attention to the Eagles last year. Those first four weeks though. Would you rather have Taylor or Wentz?
transplantbillsfan Posted March 16, 2017 Author Posted March 16, 2017 I do indeed realize how ridiculous it sounds. To those who are desperate fans of Tyrod and won't hear anything against him, it sounds very ridiculous. To those with open minds, it makes total sense. You're looking at the middle 11.5625% of the field between the hashes because you can find stats about it, and you're looking at that middle 11.5625% from the line of scrimmage fo, and in fact also behind the line. I'm looking at the middle 33.33% of the field and only from ten yards out ... for the obvious reason that that's where he rarely throws and that he has problems when he does throw there. And since there are major differences between those two areas, of course he might throw differently between them. Duh. You include short passes in yours, behind the line and from the LOS to nine yards out. Thing is, nobody's ever accused Tyrod of having trouble there. He clearly throws quite well on balls thrown in the middle if they're less than ten yards. Always has. So again, it's not ridiculous at all to point out differences when you include the shorter and easier throws that he's good at, and which I (and everyone) agree he's good at. Why did I pick the area I picked? Because it's clearly where he has problems. The pundits and experts agree. Why did you pick the area you picked? Because it's easy to find stats about it. And because since Tyrod threw 285 passes of the 436 passes (65.3%) your stat source (ESPN and their Tyrod Splits) shows that he threw this year were ten yards or less. So if you throw in the short passes he's good at with the intermediate and long middle passes he's not, then yeah you can bury the bad stats with the good ones. A great tactic if you're trying to make Tyrod look good at any cost. Thurm, on page 5 you ask why I bring up YAC. I think you need to breathe sometimes in the middle of spewing all of this out. Think about it, Taylor has the 3rd highest YPA out of all those QBs, which is calculated very simply: Total Passing yards / Total Passing attempts = YPA. With all those other QBs like Rodgers, Newton, Carr, Mariota, etc. accumulating less YPA over the middle of the field, it means that when they throw to the middle, they accumulated fewer yards than Taylor. So, logically, with Taylor's WRs getting some of the lowest YAC in the NFL, there aren't many reasonable conclusions. Either Taylor threw the ball to the deep and intermediate middle and completed his passes more frequently and efficiently in terms of the % of those total "middle" passes (behind the LOS, short, middle, and deep combined) than those other guys or the throws to the deep and intermediate middle of the field were the one area of the field where WRs got tons of YAC for Buffalo. And your focus on that middle 33.33% is comical at this point and really misses the mark if you can't provide data or any evidence whatsoever comparatively for other QBs in the NFL, not just Taylor. Considering that there's data out there for between the hashes (ESPN) and between the numbers (PFF) that demonstrate that Taylor is at the very least NFL competent throwing to the deep and intermediate middle of the field (he has a 120.4 Passer Rating and a 60.6% completion % in 2016 there, according to PFF), your obsession over the place where Taylor has a problem throwing (that fraction of the field that's excluded by PFF "inside the numbers"... those 3-4 yards your talking about) is 14% of the field. That's it. What were you saying about that 11.5625% of the field I brought up? We have evidence, across the NFL, for that 11.5625% of the field. We have tons of PFF passing charts you can easily find on the Internet that access that 47.5% of the field I referred to. Your saying Taylor's just fine throwing the ball between the hashes (which ESPN's evidence points to when you compare him with other NFL QBs) and is just fine throwing the ball inside the numbers up to about 3-4 yards (which PFF's evidence points to), but he's just absolutely terrible when throwing the football to a span of the field totaling about 7.4 yards. 14% of the field. That's your obsession. And it might not even need to be. All you gotta do is go do another study (yep, suggesting another one you'll need to do to make a complete and legitimate argument) and go out and chart every NFL QB to that "middle third" you already say you did for Taylor in 2015.
HappyDays Posted March 16, 2017 Posted March 16, 2017 Would you rather have Taylor or Wentz? Wentz purely because of age, and he has a higher ceiling. But I think it's a 50/50 shot who performs better this upcoming season. I know most people think that's crazy but based on my watching them play, Wentz could easily turn into a bust. He had 4 great games and then completely fell off, and he never recovered. Eagles had a good defense (4th in DVOA, 12th in PPG) but didn't make the playoffs. We had the opposite problem. And by the way, Football Outsiders' data says our offense faced the 12th hardest schedule, while the Eagles faced the 18th hardest. So why should we assume Wentz will be better moving forward? Like I said, 50/50 shot or so.
CommonCents Posted March 16, 2017 Posted March 16, 2017 He didn't do enough good things on the field and it ended up costing him big bucks at the table during contract talks. Isn't that the long and short of it? It doesn't take a bunch of hand picked stats to be objective and see where TT ended up. Do we really have folks under the belief that TT handed the organization a double digit discount (10 mil) out of the kindness of his heart? What other player in any sport has ever given up half of his guaranteed money in the prime of his career, this player also has to have made minimal money through his career.
transplantbillsfan Posted March 16, 2017 Author Posted March 16, 2017 It's not 4 and 5 yards. It's 10 or less being short, 11 - 20 being intermediate and 21 and more being long. And that's not me making those categories, it's ESPN, the place you get all of your stats. Dude, seriously? Like I said, take a breath and turn your world sideways because that's what you need to do in what you're saying here. Your obsession is the 4 yards going horizontally inside from the numbers. That was what I was talking about in the post you responded to and you turn the argument sideways as though I was talking vertically. Saying more isn't always better. You have a tendency to get lost in what you say. It's okay, it happens to me sometimes, too. I'll admit when it happens to me, though. You don't.
Bill_with_it Posted March 16, 2017 Posted March 16, 2017 If the Bills could have obtained 2 second round picks for Tyrod Taylor, a QB they were perfectly willing to move on to Glennon or Siemian from, then there were no offers similar on the table. Hey look my name is jeffismagic proclaiming my opinion as truth when the truth is contrary to everything I post. You have zero clue as to what if. Noone does.
ko12010 Posted March 16, 2017 Posted March 16, 2017 1 vote for Taylor stinks. Don't you ever feel embarrassed that your contributions are on par with an elementary school kid when others, like the OP, put in great time and effort to present an excellent analysis using research and numbers to provide evidence for their conclusions?
K-9 Posted March 16, 2017 Posted March 16, 2017 Hey look my name is jeffismagic proclaiming my opinion as truth when the truth is contrary to everything I post. You have zero clue as to what if. Noone does. Noone does indeed!
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