jeffismagic Posted March 16, 2017 Posted March 16, 2017 Lol I am not a GM or agent, I was simply saying tyrod is not a bottom 5 QB, and listed 10 QBS that are easily worse than him Well, the Bills disagree with you.
Thurman#1 Posted March 16, 2017 Posted March 16, 2017 Thurm, you talk about his numbers being skewed because he throws it short well, except Taylor had one of the lower YAC in the NFL and his YPA on those ESPN splits over the middle among those 12 other QBs is 8.7 YPA and behind only Cousins and Ryan. So, it's pretty illogical for you to argue those numbers are skewed more than any other NFL QB. Usually your arguments are understandable even if I disagree. But YAC has nothing to do with this whatsoever. I'm not arguing that Tyrod's numbers are more skewed than any other NFL QB. I'm pointing out that you're trying to bury the stats for the areas where he's bad - beyond ten yards, which ESPN, the place where you get all your stats, calls intermediate and long, in a blizzard of throws to where he's good, within ten yards. Of course he looks good when you use all of his "middle of the field" stats. He threw very few balls to the deep and intermediate third where he's weak. I went over that for every ball he threw in 2015, his good year, on the other site, every ball. It was on the other site, and it's now gone, but that doesn't make it less true. He simply threw very little to the deep and intermediate middle. That's a lot of the problem. It pretty much neutralized Clay's game, for one thing. Now if you bury that area in stats from many more passes thrown to his area of strength it does indeed cover up the problem. But covering up the problem isn't what use of statistics should do. You want to continue to argue that Taylor throws the ball inside the numbers up to 4 yards well but once it hits 5 yards and beyond he struggles, you go right ahead. It's not 4 and 5 yards. It's 10 or less being short, 11 - 20 being intermediate and 21 and more being long. And that's not me making those categories, it's ESPN, the place you get all of your stats. Taylor was 16/25 for 261 yards. 2 TDs and 0 INTs with a Passer Rating of 125.6, according to PFF. Sooo.... what... the majority of those completions were to the 3-4 yards just inside the numbers and the majority of those incompletions were 5+ yards inside the numbers? Seriously? Dude. Seriously. He threw more and better to the sides, and that included the three or four yards inside the numbers. I went over every single play of the 2015 season, play by play, and posted the numbers and included every ball to the middle third. On the other website, so it's now gone. I commented on every play to the middle third and posted the time so everyone could check. I also posted the time over every play that was even close, within two or three yards of the middle. Not a single person disagreed with me on any play not being in the middle third. You saw all of this. And the numbers showed that in the deep and intermediate zone, he threw roughly 40% to the left third, roughly 40% to the right third and roughly 20% to the middle third. And was very unsuccessful with the balls thrown to the middle third. So he threw less and more poorly to the deep and intermediate middle third. Which makes him easier to defend because it's such a strong tendency. And the guy who put up the dot chart showing where each of ball thrown by Brady and Rivers was caught had each going about 33-33-33 in the deep and intermediate middle. That made them unpredictable. For those wondering what Transplant is talking about with the 125 passer rating, look here: https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-bills-should-build-around-tyrod-taylor-not-show-him-the-door/ It's another chart that doesn't look at the field in thirds. It counts "the middle" as everything between the numbers, the middle 52.503281455 % of the field. And even if you look at the middle 52% of the field, the stats Transplant introduces show the same thing, fewer throws to the middle. Looking at the intermediate zone of Transplant's charts (10 - 19 yards), he threw 92 passes to the intermediate zone, and only 27 to the middle 52%. Put another way, in the intermediate zone, he threw only 27.2% of his passes to the middle 52% of the field. Unbalanced. Easier to defend. In the deep zone it was much worse. He threw 58 deep passes according to Transplant's chart, and only eight to the middle 52%. That means he threw 15.3% of his deep passes to the middle 52% of the field. Unbalanced. Easier to defend. Whereas the dot charts that guy showed on Brady and Rivers had them dividing their throws nearly evenly to each third of the deep and intermediate areas. Tyrod doesn't throw nearly as much to the deep and intermediate middle, even when you extend the middle out to the numbers and encompass 52% of the field. And it's much more so when you look at the area he actually avoids, the middle third, the deep and intermediate middle third.
BillsFan130 Posted March 16, 2017 Posted March 16, 2017 Well, the Bills disagree with you. Logic doesn't. He is easily better than those guys. Mike glennon must be better than A rod cause hes making more money than him right..
jeffismagic Posted March 16, 2017 Posted March 16, 2017 (edited) Logic doesn't. He is easily better than those guys. Mike glennon must be better than A rod cause hes making more money than him right.. It's not just money. Many of the QB's better than Tyrod are on rookie contracts. The fact that Glennon, a terrible QB, got that deal while Tyrod took a massive paycut shows how well Tyrod is regarded by NFL GMs. Edited March 16, 2017 by jeffismagic
Maury Ballstein Posted March 16, 2017 Posted March 16, 2017 Logic doesn't. He is easily better than those guys. Mike glennon must be better than A rod cause hes making more money than him right.. He's somewhere between 20th to 24th of 32.
BillsFan130 Posted March 16, 2017 Posted March 16, 2017 (edited) He's somewhere between 20th to 24th of 32. Agreed. I personally think closer to 20 but he is for sure not a bottom 5 QB. That's all I was trying to say. Edited March 16, 2017 by billsfan11
jeffismagic Posted March 16, 2017 Posted March 16, 2017 He's somewhere between 20th to 24th of 32. He's near the bottom. That's all that really matters. Maybe a CoT could prove he is really a bottom 10 QB. So what? Time to improve the position.
BillsFan130 Posted March 16, 2017 Posted March 16, 2017 He's near the bottom. That's all that really matters. Maybe a CoT could prove he is really a bottom 10 QB. So what? Time to improve the position. I literally just gave you 10 QBS that are worse than Tyrod... lol. You are a stubborn man if you would take 5 of those guys I listed over him
jeffismagic Posted March 16, 2017 Posted March 16, 2017 (edited) I literally just gave you 10 QBS that are worse than Tyrod... lol. You are a stubborn man if you would take 5 of those guys I listed over him You just listed Carson Wentz who the Eagles gave up a boatload of picks for. if you really would rather have Tyrod over Wentz after last year you are just a TT fanboy. Indeed, as much as receivers Alshon Jeffery and Torrey Smith decided to sign with the Eagles for the strength of the organization and a decent contract, they mostly signed because of Wentz. They mostly chose Philadelphia because of what that have seen of the Eagles quarterback as a rookie, and the respect Wentz has already gained around the NFL. On Monday Smith said that he was excited to play with the Eagles in large part because of what he saw from Wentz in terms of the leadership Wentz showed as a rookie. Smith said he watched how the Eagles responded to Wentz, and he knew that was no small achievement for any rookie, let alone a rookie quarterback from a small school.' http://www.phillyvoice.com/carson-wentz-makes-eagles-long-last-desirable-destination-again/ Meanwhile TT can't even draw Andre Holmes. Edited March 16, 2017 by jeffismagic
John from Riverside Posted March 16, 2017 Posted March 16, 2017 It's not just money. Many of the QB's better than Tyrod are on rookie contracts. The fact that Glennon, a terrible QB, got that deal while Tyrod took a massive paycut shows how well Tyrod is regarded by NFL GMs. now now....be open minded and post good stuff
Thurman#1 Posted March 16, 2017 Posted March 16, 2017 (edited) Which the Bills and many of us agreed is a bottom 5 QB. Have to disagree with bottom five. You look at passer rating and YPA and other things and he looks like somewhere around 20 - 23 or so. But that's low enough to be well within the group whose teams are looking to replace them. Unless we see major major improvement. The Bills weren't going to pay him that contract and pick up the option. They gave him a bridge contract for a reason. The huge deal was the big guarantee going away. I'd rather have seen them rebuild, but if they wanted to reload, signing Tyrod was the way to go. I personally expect somewhere around seven or so wins, and without him I would have guessed maybe five. I just hope they get their financial ship righted and work things so they are out of cap trouble next year. And trade back this year, please, if at all possible. Edited March 16, 2017 by Thurman#1
transplantbillsfan Posted March 16, 2017 Author Posted March 16, 2017 This guy is clearly delusional. The CoT certainly welcomes such a loyal subject. So sad (and ironic)... it's clear TWD just found a new cult member in Crusher... The CoT don't know they are in a cult. It's like the Moonies. You guys are really creepy
John from Riverside Posted March 16, 2017 Posted March 16, 2017 So sad (and ironic)... it's clear TWD just found a new cult member in Crusher... You guys are really creepy Transplant Nothing is gonna shut these guys up except the season I only hope they do give TT decent pass catcher's to work with so he isnt throwing to street free agents this year
transplantbillsfan Posted March 16, 2017 Author Posted March 16, 2017 Um, no. The anti-Tyrod people are well aware that Tyrod throws a great out and go route. He can't make every NFL throw as his current NFL games indicate. It's the CoT crew who lose track of reality and say ridiculous things like Tyrod is comparable to Russell Wilson. Jesus... idiotic and just plain sad... Ignore feature? ANYONE?!?!
John from Riverside Posted March 16, 2017 Posted March 16, 2017 Jesus... idiotic and just plain sad... Ignore feature? ANYONE?!?! One thing I really do have a question on Why did it take so long for Tyrod to start making use of Clay this year? Seems like it picked up in the last part of the season
Thurman#1 Posted March 16, 2017 Posted March 16, 2017 Bills 399 points Franchise Cousins team 396 points Which is a stat that reflects the whole offense, not the QB. And it has probably around 30% to do with field position, and again the Bills offense got terrific field position on average, around 9th in the league, while the Bills defense got awful field position, around 23rd in the league. Scoring simply isn't a QB stat. You know what is? Passer rating. Cousins is 8th and Tyrod 20th. You know what else is a QB stat? YPA, yards per attempt. Tyrod is 26th, Cousins, 3rd. As for the offense, here's another stat: Bills 354.1 yards per game (16th) Redskins 403.1 yards per game (3rd) Not to mention that the pass game scored 17 TDs this year and 29 with the run game. So that means the pass game scored 40% of our offensive TDs. Know how many other NFL teams scored below 50% passing this year? Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzero.
transplantbillsfan Posted March 16, 2017 Author Posted March 16, 2017 So why didn't the Bills pick up Tyrod's option and pay him as a bottom 10 QB? Because maybe buying things on sale for cheaper than for what they're worth is considered smart... I bought a 55' 4K 6 series Samsung TV for $470 a month ago. Literally nothing wrong with the TV, Costco just got a new shipment in so they were moving stuff out. I didn't not buy it because l figured the price was too good to be true. Sooo...is Brady only as good as his annual salary? Simpleton logic...
Thurman#1 Posted March 16, 2017 Posted March 16, 2017 (edited) Transplant Nothing is gonna shut these guys up except the season I only hope they do give TT decent pass catcher's to work with so he isnt throwing to street free agents this year Don't make assumptions that might not turn out. Might be your side that is shut up by the season. I'd be thrilled to see him make the kind of leap he would have to make to be a franchise guy. It's just very unlikely to happen in his seventh year. Because maybe buying things on sale for cheaper than for what they're worth is considered smart... I bought a 55' 4K 6 series Samsung TV for $470 a month ago. Literally nothing wrong with the TV, Costco just got a new shipment in so they were moving stuff out. I didn't not buy it because l figured the price was too good to be true. Sooo...is Brady only as good as his annual salary? Simpleton logic... Tyrod's no bargain right now. He's a reasonably priced player. Tyrod's the twenty-first best paid QB in the league in average salary. Just about spot-on. Whereas Brady is the 12th-highest paid and probably the single best. And it wasn't pressure from the Pats threatening not to pick up his option that led Brady to accept his $20+ mill per year. Plus, is Tyrod married to a woman worth several hundred million? The two situations are not remotely comparable. Simpleton comparison. Edited March 16, 2017 by Thurman#1
transplantbillsfan Posted March 16, 2017 Author Posted March 16, 2017 (edited) "Are they getting as open as consistently as #1 and #2 WRs across the NFL? How often do those other QBs across the NFL simply not throw a pass to those guys?" is what you expect us to prove, correct? It's unprovable. I went over that for every ball he threw in 2015, his good year, on the other site, every ball. It was on the other site, and it's now gone, but that doesn't make it less true. He simply threw very little to the deep and intermediate middle. Out of everything you said, which I'll try to get to, the first is the most sad and telling statement about your approach to this Tyrod discussion. It is provable, just go watch the plays for every QB to gain the context in the same manner you did with Taylor. And do it with an objective eye, which I'll assume you had with Taylor's plays. That's going to provide the necessary context for your argument. I look forward to reading this comprehensive post from you. As to your 2nd statement, what you proved was nothing except that Taylor didn't meet your arbitrary benchmarks for throwing to the deep "middle third" of the field when, in fact, you were proven time and time again that your benchmark was wrong. QBs don't throw to the deep middle (even the middle third) of the field very often at all, and Taylor's very close to the norm for that. You think I'm wrong? Again, get some context, take some time, and go look at other QBs as points of comparison. This guy is clearly delusional. The CoT certainly welcomes such a loyal subject. Crusher I have to come back to this post to emphasize how barf-worthy it is. It's literally like I watched you drink someone's blood while sitting in a circle with 6 other naked dudes. Edited March 16, 2017 by transplantbillsfan
Thurman#1 Posted March 16, 2017 Posted March 16, 2017 (edited) Out of everything you said, which I'll try to get to, this is the most sad and telling statement about your approach to this Tyrod discussion. It is provable, just go watch the plays for every QB to gain the context in the same manner you did with Taylor. And do it with an objective eye, which I'll assume you had with Taylor's plays. That's going to provide the necessary context for your argument. I look forward to reading this comprehensive post from you. You're going to do that? For me? Fantastic. And thank you for assuming that I was objective. I was indeed, as much as humanly possible. I approached it as a fact-finding mission, not as an attempt to prove something. We already know that Brady and Rivers spread it across the field and Tyrod doesn't. That and the fact that the pundits already know that he doesn't pass over the middle much and that that holds him back ... that's enough necessary context for me and for pretty much everyone. Not for people who are wild-eyed Tyrod fans on sixpacks of Red Bull, but for pretty much everyone else. But if you're going to do that, I'd be really willing and interested to see what you find. Edited March 16, 2017 by Thurman#1
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