Are we ramping up to war with North Korea?

[njbuff]

5 minutes ago, ALF said:

 

just one problem

 

What Will China Do if the U.S. Attacks North Korea?

 

If the U.S. attacks North Korea first, even with the excuse of North Korea’s nuclear weapons development, China is obliged to defend North Korea for two reasons.

 

If North Korea attacks the U.S. first, the U.S. has the right to attack the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea (D.P.R.K.) in retaliation.

 

http://www.chinafile.com/conversation/what-will-china-do-if-us-attacks-north-korea

 

 

China is a problem, but NK is the bigger more threatening problem.

 

Trump isn't one to play games and I bet he is on his last legs with NK, with or without Chinese blessings.

[snafu]

If it were any other President, I would see Trump's letter as a move to get Moon to either have direct talks with the N.  It has to do with the long term view of taking another step on the road to unification of the peninsula -- and do it in a way that saves face for China.  If the US appears to have less involvement, then unification can look more organic.  But it is Trump and I doubt he'd put his ego aside for something like that.

 

[Koko78]

19 minutes ago, ALF said:

 

just one problem

 

What Will China Do if the U.S. Attacks North Korea?

 

If the U.S. attacks North Korea first, even with the excuse of North Korea’s nuclear weapons development, China is obliged to defend North Korea for two reasons.

 

If North Korea attacks the U.S. first, the U.S. has the right to attack the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea (D.P.R.K.) in retaliation.

 

http://www.chinafile.com/conversation/what-will-china-do-if-us-attacks-north-korea

 

 

Remember the Maine!

[boyst]

North Korea isn't a problem. 

[DC Tom]

1 hour ago, snafu said:

If it were any other President, I would see Trump's letter as a move to get Moon to either have direct talks with the N.  It has to do with the long term view of taking another step on the road to unification of the peninsula -- and do it in a way that saves face for China.  If the US appears to have less involvement, then unification can look more organic.  But it is Trump and I doubt he'd put his ego aside for something like that.

 

 

There's a story I read - forget where - that Trump did this because he felt Kim was going to cancel and he wanted to beat him to the punch.

 

Which is not a bad strategy, even if he ignorantly backed in to it with an ego-driven decision.  Puts the DPRK in a completely reactive position, when they're used to having it the other way around.

[snafu]

4 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

There's a story I read - forget where - that Trump did this because he felt Kim was going to cancel and he wanted to beat him to the punch.

 

Which is not a bad strategy, even if he ignorantly backed in to it with an ego-driven decision.  Puts the DPRK in a completely reactive position, when they're used to having it the other way around.

 

I don't know if confusing and disorienting the somewhat unhinged "dear leader III" a few weeks before the summit is the way I'd go, unless I knew that someone could readily and quickly set things straight.

 

[3rdnlng]

2 hours ago, njbuff said:

Now Trump should SEVERELY threaten publicly that the US and their allies are coming in any day now to obliterate NK off the planet.

 

Let’s see how fast little rocket man comes back to the table.

 

First thing Trump said is that his military is ready....... next action is to say he will use it.

 

The art of the deal is about to close on NK.

No, no and no. If you want to scare Kim to the table you don't overtly threaten him verbally. Play it coy. Move assets in to place as if you might be getting ready to attack. Quietly let him know that you are ready to sit down with him but it has to happen soon. Keep him worried but don't force him to lose face.

[ALF]

Bringing up what happened to  Muammar Gaddafi was not very smart

 

Unsettling the Summits: John Bolton’s Libya Solution

 

https://intpolicydigest.org/2018/05/21/unsettling-the-summits-john-bolton-s-libya-solution/

 

Pence: North Korea will end like Libya only if 'Kim Jong Un doesn't make a deal'

 

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/21/politics/mike-pence-fox-news-north-korea/index.html

 

 

 

[Chef Jim]

This is what is referred to in sales as “the takeaway”. Well played. 

[B-Man]

 

Quote

 

The Associated Press‏Verified account @AP

FollowFollow @AP

 

North Korea says it is still willing to talk with US "at any time" and in "any format" after Trump's abrupt cancellation of summit.

 

 

 

 

Quote

Stephen Miller‏Verified account @redsteeze 2h2 hours ago

“You hang up first.” “No you...”

 

 

?

Edited May 25, 2018 by B-Man

[3rdnlng]

3 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

This is what is referred to in sales as “the takeaway”. Well played. 

I sold a boat recently through Craigslist. The guy called me within hours of my listing it. He had to wait until later in the day to come see it. After seeing it he made me an offer. I told him if he didn't think it was a good deal then he wouldn't have traveled an hour to see it, and if he thought it was a good deal then others would too, and I was firm on my price. He handed me an envelope with the full asking price. He knew I would walk away and also that I was right. One of the worst things you can be in life is to be out of options or desperate. One always has to be able to walk away.

[snafu]

3 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said:

I sold a boat recently through Craigslist. The guy called me within hours of my listing it. He had to wait until later in the day to come see it. After seeing it he made me an offer. I told him if he didn't think it was a good deal then he wouldn't have traveled an hour to see it, and if he thought it was a good deal then others would too, and I was firm on my price. He handed me an envelope with the full asking price. He knew I would walk away and also that I was right. One of the worst things you can be in life is to be out of options or desperate. One always has to be able to walk away.

 

Yes, however in this case there's only one buyer and he may take his envelope and not come back. 

[3rdnlng]

2 minutes ago, snafu said:

 

Yes, however in this case there's only one buyer and he may take his envelope and not come back. 

I was willing to walk away from his offer. I didn't have to sell. That's the point.

 

I spent a few decades in commercial real estate. I traveled over the NE part of the country finding locations for retail stores. I found the locations and negotiated the deals. Sometimes I would be negotiating with sophisticated real estate people and other times I might be negotiating with 4-5 different homeowners to assemble a site. I could sense desperation when it was there and tried not to use it to the point of ruining a deal. Being desperate is not a good place to be.

[snafu]

13 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said:

I was willing to walk away from his offer. I didn't have to sell. That's the point.

 

I spent a few decades in commercial real estate. I traveled over the NE part of the country finding locations for retail stores. I found the locations and negotiated the deals. Sometimes I would be negotiating with sophisticated real estate people and other times I might be negotiating with 4-5 different homeowners to assemble a site. I could sense desperation when it was there and tried not to use it to the point of ruining a deal. Being desperate is not a good place to be.

 

I get that, but my point is that you had options to negotiate with other buyers. In this case w/Kim, who's the alternative? The Netherlands?

 

[3rdnlng]

5 minutes ago, snafu said:

 

I get that, but my point is that you had options to negotiate with other buyers. In this case w/Kim, who's the alternative? The Netherlands?

 

My point is that if one doesn't negotiate from a position of strength then it shows (unless you are a really good BS'er) up in many ways.

 

There are several options in dealing with Kim. I don't know what most of them are but it might include China and South Korea.

[Doc Brown]

15 hours ago, Deranged Rhino said:

(Notice the letter tacitly admits - or strongly implies at least - that Trump and Kim have been communicating by phone... something we've discussed before. It's an information war, nothing is as it seems by design.)

 

I think the most interesting line of that statement is "In the meantime, I want to thank you for the release of the hostages who are now home with their families."

 

I'm going to put my conspiracy hat on here and say that Trump played Kim like he has his whole career in real estate deals with contractors that he stiffed after getting what he wanted.  He knows that Kim wasn't going to give up his nuclear weapons.  Just blow up their nuclear test sites like previous North Korean regimes.  Trump also knew Kim was anxious to meet with Trump because it would give him legitimacy.  He then brings Jon Bolton on who says they should go with the Libya model and then Pence echos that sentiment.  Of course, Kim is going to react negatively to that news given what happened to Gadaffi (which Bolton was in favor of).  

 

The point of this conspiracy is that Trump got three American hostages back and convinced North Korea to blow up some of their nuclear test sites.  He gave up nothing in return.  He then cancels the summit and Kim is now trying to find a way to keep the summit alive.

 

....Or he just does everything by the seat of his pants and hope it works out.

[4merper4mer]

16 hours ago, Deranged Rhino said:

(Notice the letter tacitly admits - or strongly implies at least - that Trump and Kim have been communicating by phone... something we've discussed before. It's an information war, nothing is as it seems by design.)

 

Great.  Now that this letter has gone public, does it mean we'll have to start saying "his excellency" when discussing Andrew Luck?

[Tiberius]

17 hours ago, 3rdnlng said:

The difference is that we aren't the same old United States.

Yup, we now have a dysfunctional executive branch to go along with a dysfunctional legislative branch (thanks Putin!) 

 

Republican rule is a joke 

[Nanker]

16 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Not surprising.  Same old North Korea.

They’ve got the most to lose, and that’s a lot. 

16 hours ago, DC Tom said:

 

I wonder how it reads translated into Korean.

Dear Short, Fat and Ugly Toad,

 

You fogging ice hole. You lousy cork suckers don’t want to play no ball with US? 

Well then, fork you and your small breasted skinny women. 

 

Yours truly,

 

Donald J Trump

POTUS... That means President of the United States in case youse don’t know you illiterate fart. 

 

12 hours ago, njbuff said:

 

Enough is enough with NK.

 

Either the world gets on board with the obliteration of NK or they get left behind.

 

The games have been played with that country for generations. Time to end it.

Simmah down now! Simmah da damn down!

 

 

 

9 hours ago, snafu said:

 

I get that, but my point is that you had options to negotiate with other buyers. In this case w/Kim, who's the alternative? The Netherlands?

 

Perhaps we could entice The Grand Dutch of Fenwick to take our place at the negotiating table.

 

3 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

I think the most interesting line of that statement is "In the meantime, I want to thank you for the release of the hostages who are now home with their families."

 

I'm going to put my conspiracy hat on here and say that Trump played Kim like he has his whole career in real estate deals with contractors that he stiffed after getting what he wanted.  He knows that Kim wasn't going to give up his nuclear weapons.  Just blow up their nuclear test sites like previous North Korean regimes.  Trump also knew Kim was anxious to meet with Trump because it would give him legitimacy.  He then brings Jon Bolton on who says they should go with the Libya model and then Pence echos that sentiment.  Of course, Kim is going to react negatively to that news given what happened to Gadaffi (which Bolton was in favor of).  

 

The point of this conspiracy is that Trump got three American hostages back and convinced North Korea to blow up some of their nuclear test sites.  He gave up nothing in return.  He then cancels the summit and Kim is now trying to find a way to keep the summit alive.

 

....Or he just does everything by the seat of his pants and hope it works out.

But according to the media he’s done nothing and deserves ridicule for being, well... Trump. 

[boyst]

13 hours ago, DC Tom said:

 

There's a story I read - forget where - that Trump did this because he felt Kim was going to cancel and he wanted to beat him to the punch.

 

Which is not a bad strategy, even if he ignorantly backed in to it with an ego-driven decision.  Puts the DPRK in a completely reactive position, when they're used to having it the other way around.

Wapo