Tom Brady-The Greatest of His Era, Not All-Time

[TheFunPolice]

Brady is the GOAT until the next one...

 

In order to win 5 you have to get one or two really early in your career and stay healthy for close to 20 years.

 

I don't see anyone currently playing who has a realistic shot at getting 3, let alone 4 or 5.

 

Freaking Matt Ryan...

[Iron Maiden]

 

I disagree with a lot of your conclusions. The weather Brady plays in is an advantage not a disadvantage. Brady has had plenty of talent at WR/TE/RB over the years. He is a different QB than Manning altogether and relies on TE's and slot WR's over traditional wideouts.

 

Who had the GOAT HC? Brady

 

How do you explain Manning's numbers when he played in the snow/wind ?.....they are noticeably lower...Brady's are not....

 

He had talent, but not close to Manning's...

[Success]

Lets play a round of Questions:

 

1. Who are the elite WR's and RB's Brady played most his career with and won 5 SB's with? NONE except 1 SB win with Gronk.

2. Who are the elite WR's, TE's and RB's Montana played most his career with and won 4 SB's with? GOAT Rice, Taylor, Clark, Jones, Craig, Waters

3. Who are the elite WR's, TE's, and RB's Manning played with most his career and won 2 SB's with? HOF Harrison, possible future HOF Wayne, EDGE, Clark, Thomas, Welker, Thomas.

 

What kind of weather did each play most their home careers in:

 

1. Brady - Awful outside conditions for 16 years in New England plus games in bad weather divisional stadiums twice a year.

2. Montana - Sunny CA with some occasional rain.

3. Manning - Cushy dome with a short stop in Denver.

 

Brady won 3 SB titles in 4 seasons throwing to scrubs who couldn't make it as starters on other teams. He's now won 2 in the last 3 despite having an underwhelming cast of skill players not named Gronk and Gronk didn't even play in the post season during this years SB run. And now Brady is the hands down favorite to win again next year which would be the SECOND time he would have won 3 SB's in 4 seasons if he does.

 

I wont make a stink about people putting Montana up there, because before Brady he was the GOAT IMO. But Brady crushes Manning who accomplished far less with more riches of talent around him. Even Manning's 2nd SB title, they won INSPITE of Manning who put up the single worst performance of a QB of all the winners in SB history after being one of the lowest rated passers in the NFL all that season. So much so Trevor almost took his job.

You're cherry picking and ignoring the biggest factor of all - Brady played under the greatest coach of all time.

[TheFunPolice]

One thing is for sure (IMO): Belichick is the GOAT of head coaches.

 

The work he did as a DC, plus his coaching tree, and obviously his career as the HC in NE stand alone.

 

Having him your entire career, especially early on when you need to build a foundation of success, probably matters a bit too.

Edited March 15, 2017 by TheFunPolice

[Success]

 

I'm with you....Brady >>> Manning...and it's not even close.....remember also, Brady was a missed xtra point away to bring the 2015 AFC Championship to OT in Denver...vs that incredible D............or how Manning crumbled in the SB vs Seattle, putting up 8 pts...then the very next year, Brady put up 28....Butler made the play of course, but being down 10 pts vs that D and coming back is telling ...I couldn't imagine Manning making that comeback....or vs Atlanta this year....

The entire legion of boom needed surgery when the 4th quarter started. Not the same D that Manning faced.

[Matt_In_NH]

 

How do you explain Manning's numbers when he played in the snow/wind ?.....they are noticeably lower...Brady's are not....

 

He had talent, but not close to Manning's...

 

You are helping to prove my point, a dome/warm weather team is at a distinct disadvantage in a cold weather market. Do you disagree with that?

[TheFunPolice]

Whenever I get down about the NE/ATL super bowl I console myself with the anguish that Matt Ryan must feel.

 

I'll never forgive him for that choke job of a performance. League MVP?... LOL

 

You can't even win the SB with a 28-3 lead in the 3rd quarter and the best offense the league has seen in years. Good luck even getting back. Just ask Aaron Rogers how hard it is.

[Iron Maiden]

The entire legion of boom needed surgery when the 4th quarter started. Not the same D that Manning faced.

 

True...but they were still a very good D.....Could you have pictured Peyton making that come back ?.....or the one vs the Falcons this year ?

[bobobonators]

 

You are helping to prove my point, a dome/warm weather team is at a distinct disadvantage in a cold weather market. Do you disagree with that?

This is the same logic as saying winning a game vs an NFC team hurts our playoff chances.

[TheFunPolice]

True...but they were still a very good D.....Could you have pictured Peyton making that come back ?.....or the one vs the Falcons this year ?

 

The Falcons, yes I could. They are not a great D. I was shocked they did as well as they did on defense for that long in the SB.

 

One of Manning's AFC Title wins came down 21-3 to NE.

Edited March 15, 2017 by TheFunPolice

[Success]

 

True...but they were still a very good D.....Could you have pictured Peyton making that come back ?.....or the one vs the Falcons this year ?

Well, yeah. Manning was one of the best at comebacks. Including a few big ones against the Pats.

[Iron Maiden]

 

You are helping to prove my point, a dome/warm weather team is at a distinct disadvantage in a cold weather market. Do you disagree with that?

 

How ?...Peyton was good in the dome, and not as good outside, in cold weather ..Brady was good in both.....I agree with the above of course, but it actually proves that Brady didn't need a dome..

[Success]

Pats keep Hightower.

 

I mean, this offseason alone should show why Brady has an inherent advantage when it comes to rings.

[Mr. WEO]

I know that's set up for a "Brady" answer, but it's Manning. Brady had better defenses, and most importantly, the greatest coach of all time.

 

 

I definitely give Brady and the Pats a lot of credit. Its even worse when you realize its 10 or 11 AFC Championship games in 15 years. Where Brady truly stands alone is win loss record, regular season and playoffs, he is a complete outlier from anyone else in history. Totally ridiculous. But that is giving all credit to the QB which is one part of a big team. Who would you rather have as your coach, Belicheck or Caldwell, Fox, Kubiak, Dungy. All told, he had 5 coaches in his career I believe, Brady has had the benefit of the greatest coach of all time his whole career.

 

He played 7 years with a HOF HC and a loaded offense (and 3 top 10 defenses). One SB appearance. Enough with this 5 HC's nonsense. His last SB season was awful.

 

Lets play a round of Questions:

 

1. Who are the elite WR's and RB's Brady played most his career with and won 5 SB's with? NONE except 1 SB win with Gronk.

2. Who are the elite WR's, TE's and RB's Montana played most his career with and won 4 SB's with? GOAT Rice, Taylor, Clark, Jones, Craig, Waters

3. Who are the elite WR's, TE's, and RB's Manning played with most his career and won 2 SB's with? HOF Harrison, possible future HOF Wayne, EDGE, Clark, Thomas, Welker, Thomas.

 

What kind of weather did each play most their home careers in:

 

1. Brady - Awful outside conditions for 16 years in New England plus games in bad weather divisional stadiums twice a year.

2. Montana - Sunny CA with some occasional rain.

3. Manning - Cushy dome with a short stop in Denver.

 

Brady won 3 SB titles in 4 seasons throwing to scrubs who couldn't make it as starters on other teams. He's now won 2 in the last 3 despite having an underwhelming cast of skill players not named Gronk and Gronk didn't even play in the post season during this years SB run. And now Brady is the hands down favorite to win again next year which would be the SECOND time he would have won 3 SB's in 4 seasons if he does.

 

I wont make a stink about people putting Montana up there, because before Brady he was the GOAT IMO. But Brady crushes Manning who accomplished far less with more riches of talent around him. Even Manning's 2nd SB title, they won INSPITE of Manning who put up the single worst performance of a QB of all the winners in SB history after being one of the lowest rated passers in the NFL all that season. So much so Trevor almost took his job.

 

All facts lost on those who don't use facts for their arguments.

 

You're cherry picking and ignoring the biggest factor of all - Brady played under the greatest coach of all time.

 

Talk about cherry picking! How many potential HOFers did BB give Brady to work with?

[TheFunPolice]

Sometimes you just have to stand back in a bit of awe at what NE has accomplished as an organization...

 

Recent great QBs just don't win a lot of rings:

 

Manning (2)

Rogers (1)

Favre (1)

Big Ben (2)

 

I throw Big Ben in there because he has a couple rings. There just aren't modern QBs amassing rings. Except Brady.

 

I keep hearing how amazing Aaron Rogers is. He's unworldly! He does incredible things nobody else can do!

 

But he can't even get back to the SB.

Edited March 15, 2017 by TheFunPolice

[Alphadawg7]

 

I disagree with a lot of your conclusions. The weather Brady plays in is an advantage not a disadvantage. Brady has had plenty of talent at WR/TE/RB over the years. He is a different QB than Manning altogether and relies on TE's and slot WR's over traditional wideouts.

 

Who had the GOAT HC? Brady

 

And Walsh isnt in the consideration for GOAT HC himself and at the very least top 3?

 

Come on man, you can't remotely compare the talent Brady has had at WR/TE/RB compared to what Montana had and Manning had. Its not even close. Montana had a revolutionary RB in Craig, again in Waters, GOAT at WR, uber talent around them like Taylor, Brent, Clark, etc. Not to mention, a top notch OL most his career and played in a system that changed Football forever.

 

Manning had Harrisson, Wayne, Clark, EDGE, D. Thomas, J. Thomas, Welker in his SB wins.

 

In the 5 SB rings, Brady had Branch (who bombed outside NE and had to crawl back to get a job again), Brown, Edelman, Hogan, White. The only SB win he had an Elite talent was 2 years ago with Gronk against Seattle.

 

Manning and Montana played with HOF weapons almost their whole careers (Manning did his entire career, Montana did most his career as Rice came a couple years after Montana). Brady played with unheralded castoffs from other teams and made them HIGHLY productive. MASSIVE difference in talent.

 

And I am sorry, but you are very misguided on the advantage thing with the cold weather. I do agree that Brady has an advantage in terms of winning or losing at home because he is better than opposing teams coming in at playing in the cold. That is true. But what Brady accomplishes on an individual and statistical level, the cold is NOT an advantage over being able to throw in a dome or good weather stadium. No QB will perform BETTER in bad weather than good weather, so Manning had a clear advantage along with Montana of being able to pay in substantially better conditions when it comes down to QB production and personal accomplishments.

 

Brady has done more with less and in worse playing conditions than both Montana and Manning.

[Iron Maiden]

Well, yeah. Manning was one of the best at comebacks. Including a few big ones against the Pats.

 

Most of his comebacks were in the regular season...he had that 1 vs NE in the playoffs.....can't remember any other ...I'm sure there's some....I'd be curious to see the overall numbers for comebacks between those 2.....

 

Was Peyton a great QB?, yes, of course.....is he above Brady ?, not in my opinion....that debate for me was settled in 2014..

[TheFunPolice]

Yeah, sadly the Brady/Manning debate ended when Brady got ring #4 IMO

 

Now it just sounds silly. Almost as silly as those people who say every year that Rogers is the best QB in the league when they never do anything in the playoffs.

[Success]

Yeah, sadly the Brady/Manning debate ended when Brady got ring #4 IMO

 

Now it just sounds silly. Almost as silly as those people who say every year that Rogers is the best QB in the league when they never do anything in the playoffs.

How many rings would Brady have if McCarthy had been his coach this whole time?

 

How many ring would Belichivk have if Rodgers had been his QB?

[Matt_In_NH]

 

How ?...Peyton was good in the dome, and not as good outside, in cold weather ..Brady was good in both.....I agree with the above of course, but it actually proves that Brady didn't need a dome..

 

Mannngs record in cold weather is really bad. However, warm weather teams/dome teams generally do poorly in the cold, if you want to take that to mean Manning could not play in the cold, I guess you can but I dont agree. It more a product of the team/ the climate they live and practice in than "he cant play in the cold" IMO. Manning played pretty well at Tennessee in college which gets cold at the end of the year. Pretty much every time Manning "played in the cold" he was on the road which is generally a disadvantage than playing at home.

 

Look at the stats of Brady Vs Manning, overall, 11-6 in favor of Brady but 10 of the 17 games were played in Foxboro so the win/loss percentage is pretty much in line with location of the game.

 

 

Manning was 3-1 vs Brady in AFC Championship games, 3-0 in his home field so I think that shows he also has an advantage playing at home.

Edited March 15, 2017 by mattynh