Tom Brady-The Greatest of His Era, Not All-Time

[Success]

Could it be that because the supplements Brady consumes now were not available then?

 

 

 

General question

When it comes to Brady* and Manning, which QB did more with less?

I know that's set up for a "Brady" answer, but it's Manning. Brady had better defenses, and most importantly, the greatest coach of all time.

[Iron Maiden]

I don't get the Manning love...he was absolutely great in the regular season...but man, when the pressure was on, he, more often than not , crumbled miserably.....9 times he had a 1 and done...9!

 

We can't also ignore the fact the for most of his career, he played in a cozy dome.....that certainly helped the stats....

 

And finally, his 2nd SB was on the back of a great Denver defense.....he was one of the worst QB in the NFL that year.....

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

I know that's set up for a "Brady" answer, but it's Manning. Brady had better defenses, and most importantly, the greatest coach of all time.

Actually, no, well for some it may be their obvious answer. I also think it's Manning for having better defenses and *cough* better coaching.

[Success]

I don't get the Manning love...he was absolutely great in the regular season...but man, when the pressure was on, he, more often than not , crumbled miserably.....9 times he had a 1 and done...9!

 

We can't also ignore the fact the for most of his career, he played in a cozy dome.....that certainly helped the stats....

 

And finally, his 2nd SB was on the back of a great Denver defense.....he was one of the worst QB in the NFL that year.....

It's a team game. I remember most of those playoff exits, and only a few were on Manning. He didn't often get much help, and played under 5 different coaches.

 

I still think Brady is the goat, but too much is made of the ring count. Brady wouldn't have 5 on another team, and BB wouldn't only have 2 if Manning was his QB this whole time.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

I don't get the Manning love...he was absolutely great in the regular season...but man, when the pressure was on, he, more often than not , crumbled miserably.....9 times he had a 1 and done...9!

 

We can't also ignore the fact the for most of his career, he played in a cozy dome.....that certainly helped the stats....

 

And finally, his 2nd SB was on the back of a great Denver defense.....he was one of the worst QB in the NFL that year.....

I think that is because he didn't have a well rounded team.

 

As you pointed out with a great defense, you also didn't mention Manning with his worst season ever (in decades) won a SB.

Edited March 15, 2017 by ShadyBillsFan

[Fadingpain]

This applies to the longevity/productivity of all players, obviously, and not just QBs...

But advancements in field technology alone somewhat skew the odds in the favor of the modern player.

 

As far as I know, Jim Kelly played on what was basically astro turf over concrete at Rich Stadium.

 

I think of all players, including Kelly, being slammed into the street with a rug over it, basically, 10,000 times...and I cringe.

Edited March 15, 2017 by Fadingpain

[TheFunPolice]

Montana's 49ers would steamroll Brady's Patriots and it would look just like the 49ers Chargers Super Bowl.

 

You simply can't compare eras. There used to be a few "super teams" loaded with HOF talent that you would have to contend with.

 

Rules were different. QB protections not the same. You could mug the WR on patterns. Hits to the head were common and legal. Steve Atwater, anyone?

 

Brady is one of the greatest QBs of all time on one of the all-time great teams. Tough to say "greatest ever QB" or "greatest ever team" though.

 

BTW growing up I was convinced the 49ers would never stop winning. I can't wait until the Patriots become a circus.

Edited March 15, 2017 by TheFunPolice

[Iron Maiden]

I think that is because he didn't have a well rounded team.

 

As you pointed out with a great defense, you also didn't mention Manning with his worst season ever (in decades) won a SB.

 

For me, the great difference maker is the famous.." If you have 1 minute left and need a TD, who do you want under center "....In this situation, I'd pick Brady everyday and twice on Sunday ( pun intended ).

 

Montana, Marino, Elway, Manning are all incredible QBs ...but I've seen Brady too many time come up with the winning drive, under the brightest lights....the guy has ice in his veins...cluct as clutch can be.....

 

My list would probably be

 

Brady

Marino

Montana

Elway

Kelly ( yes, I'm a Homer ! )

[row_33]

I don't get the Manning love...he was absolutely great in the regular season...but man, when the pressure was on, he, more often than not , crumbled miserably.....9 times he had a 1 and done...9!

 

We can't also ignore the fact the for most of his career, he played in a cozy dome.....that certainly helped the stats....

 

And finally, his 2nd SB was on the back of a great Denver defense.....he was one of the worst QB in the NFL that year.....

 

and Manning had a better skill position squad than Brady ever dreamed of.

 

playing in cold weather has to take it out of a man over the years, playing at 72 degrees for more than half your games was helpful

[zonabb]

This constant need to compare Brady against fill-in-the-blank Qb from fill-in-the-blank era. This is the best era of football. Guys are bigger, faster, more athletic, in better shape. QBs are better now than the past because the competition is better. All you are doing when saying Brady isn't the GOAT is supporting your own confirmation bias, which is you hate his guts because he's ripped this garbage team of our apart for years or his wife is hot or he's too rich or he's too much of a whiner (all true) but that doesn't take away from his status as the GOAT. My argument is simple and destroys ever single QB you throw out there.... his reign is the longest with the most Super Bowls. 15 years between the first and last super bowl win. He's 39 and as good as he's ever been. My money's on a repeat. He wins with good WRs and guys the Bills cut that TT couldn't do anything and Brady turned into a household name. He's won with no-name interchangeable running backs. Montana had an exponentially better team around him, so did Young. So did Aikman. So did Bradshaw. Manning was great, but championships are the greatest measure.

 

Keep crying about it because the reality sucks.

[TheFunPolice]

Brady is like one of the Avengers (in the comics and films)

 

Most of them are immortal, so does it matter who is "the best?"

 

The end result is the same: they win, you lose.

[Matt_In_NH]

I don't get the Manning love...he was absolutely great in the regular season...but man, when the pressure was on, he, more often than not , crumbled miserably.....9 times he had a 1 and done...9!

 

We can't also ignore the fact the for most of his career, he played in a cozy dome.....that certainly helped the stats....

 

And finally, his 2nd SB was on the back of a great Denver defense.....he was one of the worst QB in the NFL that year.....

 

I get what you are saying and there is truth to it but winning in the playoffs is a hard thing. You have to give him credit for his total body of work. Those 9 times were years his team made the playoffs, plus all the others where he advanced. His team made it to 4 SB's with 4 different coaches. In all cases that is the only SB for the head coach. Brady has Belicheck

 

If you look at Bradys post season stats as compared with regular season since 2005 you see a pretty big drop off just like Manning if you look at TD's/INT's, rating. Both QB's are 2-2 in the SB since 2005. I say since 2005 because the teams Brady was on in 2001-2004 were very different, Brady's role on those teams was very different.

 

Manning played Brady 4 times in the AFC Championship game and won three. People don't seem to know that stat, instead there is this perception that the Patriots owned Brady in the playoffs which is not true. Since 2005 they have played pretty even but Peyton was 3-0 in the playoffs.

 

Having said all that, I would say Brady is better than Manning. I just think there are arguments in Mannings favor and its not as lopsided as a lot assume.

Edited March 15, 2017 by mattynh

[TheFunPolice]

 

I get what you are saying and there is truth to it but winning in the playoffs is a hard thing. You have to give him credit for his total body of work. Those 9 times were years his team made the playoffs, plus all the others where he advanced. His team made it to 4 SB's with 4 different coaches. In all cases that is the only SB for the head coach. Brady has Belicheck

 

If you look at Bradys post season stats as compared with regular season since 2005 you see a pretty big drop off just like Manning if you look at TD's/INT's, rating. Both QB's are 2-2 in the SB since 2005. I say since 2005 because the teams Brady was on in 2001-2004 were very different, Brady's role on those teams was very different.

 

Manning played Brady 4 times in the AFC Championship game and won three. People don't seem to know that stat, instead there is this perception that the Patriots owned Brady in the playoffs which is not true. Since 2005 they have played pretty even but Peyton was 3-0 in the playoffs.

 

Having said all that, I would say Brady is better than Manning. I just think there are arguments in Mannings favor and its not as lopsided as a lot assume.

 

The biggest game Brady and Manning could play in Manning went 3-1.

 

Still, the difference between the two is that Manning is the league golden boy who was always supposed to be good, had all of these accolades coming into the league, and was always being celebrated before he even took a snap. Some just want to knock people like that down, thus the constant need to trivialize his career.

 

Brady was the underdog playing with house money. People love underdog stories.

 

Brady has come up short plenty of times too (18-1, scoring 14 points in the SB with the greatest offense of all time, then losing the Giants rematch in the later SB as well come to mind) but he has given himself a lot more kicks at the can.

 

Manning lost 2 SB

Brady lost 2 SB

 

But Brady went to 7 and won 5. That's incredible and you have to give him (and the Patriots franchise) a ton of credit.

 

I wouldn't mind a Seattle/NE or Atlanta/NE rematch in this year's SB. I mean, NE is going, so let's make it interesting!

 

OR even GB/NE

[Formerly Allan in MD]

Montana.. hands down.. greatest QB. case closed.

You obviously didn't watch Unitas on a regular basis.

[Matt_In_NH]

 

The biggest game Brady and Manning could play in Manning went 3-1.

 

Still, the difference between the two is that Manning is the league golden boy who was always supposed to be good, had all of these accolades coming into the league, and was always being celebrated before he even took a snap. Some just want to knock people like that down, thus the constant need to trivialize his career.

 

Brady was the underdog playing with house money. People love underdog stories.

 

Brady has come up short plenty of times too (18-1, scoring 14 points in the SB with the greatest offense of all time, then losing the Giants rematch in the later SB as well come to mind) but he has given himself a lot more kicks at the can.

 

Manning lost 2 SB

Brady lost 2 SB

 

But Brady went to 7 and won 5. That's incredible and you have to give him (and the Patriots franchise) a ton of credit.

 

I wouldn't mind a Seattle/NE or Atlanta/NE rematch in this year's SB. I mean, NE is going, so let's make it interesting!

 

OR even GB/NE

I definitely give Brady and the Pats a lot of credit. Its even worse when you realize its 10 or 11 AFC Championship games in 15 years. Where Brady truly stands alone is win loss record, regular season and playoffs, he is a complete outlier from anyone else in history. Totally ridiculous. But that is giving all credit to the QB which is one part of a big team. Who would you rather have as your coach, Belicheck or Caldwell, Fox, Kubiak, Dungy. All told, he had 5 coaches in his career I believe, Brady has had the benefit of the greatest coach of all time his whole career.

[Talley56]

It's a team game. I remember most of those playoff exits, and only a few were on Manning. He didn't often get much help, and played under 5 different coaches.

 

I still think Brady is the goat, but too much is made of the ring count. Brady wouldn't have 5 on another team, and BB wouldn't only have 2 if Manning was his QB this whole time.

100% Agree, and I would throw in that a lot of New England's big wins at least from the early years of the Brady/Belichick era were on the defense. When your defense shuts down opposing offenses with a WR playing DB that says a lot about the man behind that defense, not so much the quarterback. When playing for the Colts, Peyton never had a D even remotely close to being that reliable.

[Alphadawg7]

Lets play a round of Questions:

 

1. Who are the elite WR's and RB's Brady played most his career with and won 5 SB's with? NONE except 1 SB win with Gronk.

2. Who are the elite WR's, TE's and RB's Montana played most his career with and won 4 SB's with? GOAT Rice, Taylor, Clark, Jones, Craig, Waters

3. Who are the elite WR's, TE's, and RB's Manning played with most his career and won 2 SB's with? HOF Harrison, possible future HOF Wayne, EDGE, Clark, Thomas, Welker, Thomas.

 

What kind of weather did each play most their home careers in:

 

1. Brady - Awful outside conditions for 16 years in New England plus games in bad weather divisional stadiums twice a year.

2. Montana - Sunny CA with some occasional rain.

3. Manning - Cushy dome with a short stop in Denver.

 

Brady won 3 SB titles in 4 seasons throwing to scrubs who couldn't make it as starters on other teams. He's now won 2 in the last 3 despite having an underwhelming cast of skill players not named Gronk and Gronk didn't even play in the post season during this years SB run. And now Brady is the hands down favorite to win again next year which would be the SECOND time he would have won 3 SB's in 4 seasons if he does.

 

I wont make a stink about people putting Montana up there, because before Brady he was the GOAT IMO. But Brady crushes Manning who accomplished far less with more riches of talent around him. Even Manning's 2nd SB title, they won INSPITE of Manning who put up the single worst performance of a QB of all the winners in SB history after being one of the lowest rated passers in the NFL all that season. So much so Trevor almost took his job.

[TheElectricCompany]

You obviously didn't watch Unitas on a regular basis.

Most people haven't. That was 60 years ago with a fraction of the media coverage we see today.

[Iron Maiden]

Lets play a round of Questions:

 

1. Who are the elite WR's and RB's Brady played most his career with and won 5 SB's with? NONE except 1 SB win with Gronk.

2. Who are the elite WR's, TE's and RB's Montana played most his career with and won 4 SB's with? GOAT Rice, Taylor, Clark, Jones, Craig, Waters

3. Who are the elite WR's, TE's, and RB's Manning played with most his career and won 2 SB's with? HOF Harrison, possible future HOF Wayne, EDGE, Clark, Thomas, Welker, Thomas.

 

What kind of weather did each play most their home careers in:

 

1. Brady - Awful outside conditions for 16 years in New England plus games in bad weather divisional stadiums twice a year.

2. Montana - Sunny CA with some occasional rain.

3. Manning - Cushy dome with a short stop in Denver.

 

Brady won 3 SB titles in 4 seasons throwing to scrubs who couldn't make it as starters on other teams. He's now won 2 in the last 3 despite having an underwhelming cast of skill players not named Gronk and Gronk didn't even play in the post season during this years SB run. And now Brady is the hands down favorite to win again next year which would be the SECOND time he would have won 3 SB's in 4 seasons if he does.

 

I wont make a stink about people putting Montana up there, because before Brady he was the GOAT IMO. But Brady crushes Manning who accomplished far less with more riches of talent around him. Even Manning's 2nd SB title, they won INSPITE of Manning who put up the single worst performance of a QB of all the winners in SB history after being one of the lowest rated passers in the NFL all that season. So much so Trevor almost took his job.

 

I'm with you....Brady >>> Manning...and it's not even close.....remember also, Brady was a missed xtra point away to bring the 2015 AFC Championship to OT in Denver...vs that incredible D............or how Manning crumbled in the SB vs Seattle, putting up 8 pts...then the very next year, Brady put up 28....Butler made the play of course, but being down 10 pts vs that D and coming back is telling ...I couldn't imagine Manning making that comeback....or vs Atlanta this year....

[Matt_In_NH]

Lets play a round of Questions:

 

1. Who are the elite WR's and RB's Brady played most his career with and won 5 SB's with? NONE except 1 SB win with Gronk.

2. Who are the elite WR's, TE's and RB's Montana played most his career with and won 4 SB's with? GOAT Rice, Taylor, Clark, Jones, Craig, Waters

3. Who are the elite WR's, TE's, and RB's Manning played with most his career and won 2 SB's with? HOF Harrison, possible future HOF Wayne, EDGE, Clark, Thomas, Welker, Thomas.

 

What kind of weather did each play most their home careers in:

 

1. Brady - Awful outside conditions for 16 years in New England plus games in bad weather divisional stadiums twice a year.

2. Montana - Sunny CA with some occasional rain.

3. Manning - Cushy dome with a short stop in Denver.

 

Brady won 3 SB titles in 4 seasons throwing to scrubs who couldn't make it as starters on other teams. He's now won 2 in the last 3 despite having an underwhelming cast of skill players not named Gronk and Gronk didn't even play in the post season during this years SB run. And now Brady is the hands down favorite to win again next year which would be the SECOND time he would have won 3 SB's in 4 seasons if he does.

 

I wont make a stink about people putting Montana up there, because before Brady he was the GOAT IMO. But Brady crushes Manning who accomplished far less with more riches of talent around him. Even Manning's 2nd SB title, they won INSPITE of Manning who put up the single worst performance of a QB of all the winners in SB history after being one of the lowest rated passers in the NFL all that season. So much so Trevor almost took his job.

 

I disagree with a lot of your conclusions. The weather Brady plays in is an advantage not a disadvantage. Brady has had plenty of talent at WR/TE/RB over the years. He is a different QB than Manning altogether and relies on TE's and slot WR's over traditional wideouts.

 

Who had the GOAT HC? Brady