Tom Brady-The Greatest of His Era, Not All-Time

[Guest K-GunJimKelly12]

 

Who are the players from the 1982 and 1984 Super Bowl that you are referring to?

Russ Francis and Wendell Tyler.

[LI_Bills]

Russ Francis and Wendell Tyler.

 

And that made them LOADED?

[Guest K-GunJimKelly12]

 

And that made them LOADED?

It was sarcasm.

[LI_Bills]

Very good point, which is why I won't waste too much time comparing eras. It's not the same thing these days.

 

Could not agree any more. I'm not sure why it's so important to declare any player the "best ever". Statistics are completely irrelevant across eras and the eye ball test doesn't work unless you saw the guy play.

It was sarcasm.

 

Well then thanks for the back up!

[KD in CA]

49ers were LOADED with great players. Who has Brady had?

You mean besides the NFL rules committee?

 

Brady would be long retired had he taken the pounding that QBs in the 80s and prior routinely absorbed.

[metzelaars_lives]

UUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH.

 

Even if Montana won a fifth, 5-2 STILL > 5-0.

 

This whole 'well Brady lost two Super Bowls; Montana didn't lose any' is not only the dumbest football argument I've ever heard, it defies middle school level logic. If you think 4-0 > 5-2 or even 4-2 (Brady was ALREADY the best ever before this past Super Bowl), you are NECESSARILY saying that Montana EARNED points for LOSING three conference championship games. Look, Super Bowl wins count the most, of course. But conference championships are A GOOD THING. They're not this risky proposition that "well you better be careful now that you're in the Super Bowl because if you lose it actually counts against your legacy and you'd have been better off going 6-10 this season." I don't know how else to say it. It's maddening.

Edited March 14, 2017 by metzelaars_lives

[LI_Bills]

UUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH.

 

Even if Montana won a fifth, 5-2 STILL > 5-0.

 

This whole 'well Brady lost two Super Bowls; Montana didn't lose any' is not only the dumbest football argument I've ever heard, it defies middle school level logic. If you think 4-0 > 5-2 or even 4-2 (Brady was ALREADY the best ever before this past Super Bowl), you are NECESSARILY saying that Montana EARNED points for LOSING three conference championship games. Look, Super Bowl wins count the most, of course. But conference championships are A GOOD THING. They're not this risky proposition that "well you better be careful now that you're in the Super Bowl because if you lose it actually counts against your legacy and you'd have been better off going 6-10 this season." I don't know how else to say it. It's maddening.

 

It's maddening to me why it matters to anoint a GOAT. How about:

 

"Otto Graham played in the NFL for 6 seasons and 4 seasons in the AAFC (which later merged into the NFL) and went to 10 championship games and won 7 of them"

 

I'm not saying Brady was better than Montana or Graham or whoever, I just think comparing across eras makes no sense.

[BuffaloBud420]

And Brady isn't a system QB?? I don't think he is nearly as successful on a team that runs an offense other than what the Patriots run. I think Rogers, Brees, Rotheslisberger, Ryan, maybe even Newton and potentially Carr could do just as well on Pats. Some of these guys might do even better because of their ability to escape. Brady is likely going to be the winningest QB of all and by that standard maybe should be the greatest. Subjectively, Rogers can create way more and relies less on routes and scheme so he is the greatest of this ERA. Put Brady on GB and convince his stats are as good as what Rogers puts up. I would add that Cassel was an all pro and Garrapalo is considered the second coming of Brady, both strength the argument that the system is designed for QBs to succeed.

No. Brady is not a system QB. He plays in the pocket.

[Gugny]

Brady is the best QB of all time and Belicheck is the best coach of all time.

 

Get over it.

 

Bills got lucky in the 90s and couldn't do anything with it. Patriots got lucky and created a dynasty that actually wins Super Bowls.

 

Anyone disagreeing is jealous.

[NewEra]

If the Bills drafted Brady? We would have championships. Unless the Bills were stupid and never gave him a shot cause he was a 7 round pick.

I highly doubt we'd have won championships if we had drafted and developed Brady. It's something we'll never know but I doubt we he would've progressed in the same way playing for this franchise

 

It's maddening to me why it matters to anoint a GOAT. How about:

 

"Otto Graham played in the NFL for 6 seasons and 4 seasons in the AAFC (which later merged into the NFL) and went to 10 championship games and won 7 of them"

 

I'm not saying Brady was better than Montana or Graham or whoever, I just think comparing across eras makes no sense.

So don't. This is sports. People debate about sports. Talking about who we feel is the greatest is something people do. If you don't like it, sit it out. No one is making you. Just don't come here and tell people that shouldn't talk about it. We can't anoint "the greatest", merely discuss it

[Chandler#81]

Montana.. hands down.. greatest QB. case closed.

 

Joe was truly great, no question. Best Ev? eh, IDK.. You & I are throwbacks to previous era's that were even harder on QB's than Montana's era. For Johnny Unitas to reach down and grab a handful of mud and stuff it into his profusely bleeding mouth from a forearm smash by a DE, then immediately throw a TD pass -amid a 47 game TD Pass streak, speaks volumes to what it took to play previously. In the era's before 55% completions were the norm, that was stupendous! For my money, when 'money' was on the line, Bart Starr was the GOAT.

[LI_Bills]

So don't. This is sports. People debate about sports. Talking about who we feel is the greatest is something people do. If you don't like it, sit it out. No one is making you. Just don't come here and tell people that shouldn't talk about it. We can't anoint "the greatest", merely discuss it

 

Lighten up. I didn't mean to imply that others shouldn't discuss. I was just expressing my opinion on the topic. If you don't like it, you could just as easily ignore it.

[Mark80]

If Tom Brady were drafted in 1984, in a different era, where QB's weren't coddled, there is no way in hell that Brady would be in the shape, 16-17 years into his career that he is today. His body would have broken down at least some and he wouldn't be the player he is right now.

 

Joe Montana was 4-0 in Super Bowls and won 4 in 9 years. If he wasn't injured in the 1990 NFC Championship game against the 49ers, he probably would have been 5-0 with 5 in 10 years.

 

I know people were in a hurry to anoint Brady after the last Super Bowl, but if you take a step back and really look at the thing, there are QB's who have been just as impressive if not more with respect to their era. What would Dan Marino's career have looked like if he was drafted into the NFL in the year 2000?

 

Tom Brady is definitely one of the greatest QB's of all-time and the best of his era, but as far as I am concerned what Montana did in the era he played in was more impressive.

 

Joe Montana was also surrounded by HoF players on his offense and defense. Additionally, there was virtually no free agency when Montana was playing so he continuously played with those elite talents around him for his entire 49er career. Brady has won rings with 3 or 4 completely different rosters and been to the SB with even more. I'm sorry, but to me, that's more impressive.

[Mr. WEO]

He's the best.

 

This constant BS about Montana "getting his head ripped off" far more than Brady or other QBs today is laughable. Brady takes his beating. Check out last 2015 AFCC game vs the Broncos as just one example. Or this year's SB.

 

How many SBs does Montana win (over a span of 15 seasons, not clustered in a 10 year span) without Roger Craig, Jerry Rice, John Taylor, and a top 3 D year after year? How would he do when his coach/GM rolls out a constantly changing roster of WR and RBs?

 

Montana's greatness can't be questioned, but painting his as some sort of ironman who took a savage punishment that Brady or other QBs today can't or don't take is a joke.

[TheElectricCompany]

Since we're throwing around names like Otto Graham....

 

I don't think you can put the really old timers in the GOAT categories, not the way the game is played now. The overall level of talent is light years ahead of the 50s. In an alternate reality, I think Manning or Brady would absolutely annihilate a top tier 50s defense, but Sid Luckman or Otto Graham against the Broncos or Seahawks defense? Zero chance.

 

 

 

Montana's greatness can't be questioned, but painting his as some sort of ironman who took a savage punishment that Brady or other QBs today can't or don't take is a joke.

Folks gloss over the fact that defensive players in this era are much bigger than. That matters.

Truly physical freaks like JJ Watt or Clowney that can absolutely fly at 6'5+ and 280+ pounds were very uncommon in the 80s/90s.

Big Fred Smerlas was 6'3, 270 lb. He'd be asked to gain 50 lbs if he played nose tackle these days.

[Guest K-GunJimKelly12]

Since we're throwing around names like Otto Graham....

 

I don't think you can put the really old timers in the GOAT categories, not the way the game is played now. The overall level of talent is light years ahead of the 50s. In an alternate reality, I think Manning or Brady would absolutely annihilate a top tier 50s defense, but Sid Luckman or Otto Graham against the Broncos or Seahawks defense? Zero chance.

 

 

Folks gloss over the fact that defensive players in this era are much bigger than. That matters.

Truly physical freaks like JJ Watt or Clowney that can absolutely fly at 6'5+ and 280+ pounds were very uncommon in the 80s/90s.

Big Fred Smerlas was 6'3, 270 lb. He'd be asked to gain 50 lbs if he played nose tackle these days.

 

And offensive lineman are not bigger?

[TheElectricCompany]

And offensive lineman are not bigger?

Yep, but they don't hit their own QB

[hondo in seattle]

Brady is the best QB of all time and Belicheck is the best coach of all time.

 

Get over it.

 

Bills got lucky in the 90s and couldn't do anything with it. Patriots got lucky and created a dynasty that actually wins Super Bowls.

 

Anyone disagreeing is jealous.

 

Gugny, it's silly of you to think you know motivations.

 

There are ex-players with no connection to the Bills who aren't ready to crown Brady the GOAT. Guys with their own rings. Jealousy? Maybe. But maybe a reverence for those who came before.

[Guest K-GunJimKelly12]

Yep, but they don't hit their own QB

The beatings QB's took in past eras were more brutal than what Brady and current QB's have had to deal with, and it's not even close.

Edited March 14, 2017 by K-GunJimKelly12

[TheElectricCompany]

The beatings QB's took in past eras were more brutal than what Brady and current QB's have had to deal with, and it's not even close.

In terms of what the rules allowed defenders to do back then, absolutely, but that's not really what I'm referring to.

I'm talking more about cumulative hits that someone will experience throughout the year.

Average age on NFL players continues to drop because the overall "wear and tear" is much higher these days.

A tackle by Jack Lambert just doesn't hurt as much as a tackle by Vince Wilfork.

Edited March 14, 2017 by TheElectricCompany