Tom Brady-The Greatest of His Era, Not All-Time

[Mr. WEO]

Was there a single QB playing in the league on 2000 that was drafted 17 years earlier in the 1983 draft? The answer is no. Were any of those QB's playing close to their prime when they retired years earlier? Again the answer is no. Brady and Brees are playing like they are 25 when the are 40, there is no question, players have more longevity today and a huge part of that are the rules that protect the QB's from taking major hits. Also the rules on what defenders can do to the receivers have been changed significantly to make it easier to complete passes. There is no question about these facts. People who think there is are simply not well informed.

I feel sorry for the people in for life that constantly have to fake laugh at your attempts at jokes.

 

 

Clearly the point you are missing (and that the poster made simply, is....where are all of the other QBs who have played 16 years? Because Brady and Brees have played a long time the rules have created a generation of super longevity QBs?

 

Well, Elway was drafted in 1983 and he lasted until 1999 (close enough) and was SB MVP his last season. MArino, also drafted in 1983 and played 17 seasons was a top 10 passer in his 16th season. See that's 2 right there in a single draft!

 

Throw in Vinnie Testaverde (22 seasons, 11th in passing his 18th year), Favre played 10 seasons before 2000. MArk Brunnel played 1000 years and most of them came during the manly man period you describe. It seems that the 90's saw more high longevity QBs than the past 10-15 years have seen.

[mannc]

But completion percentage was far lower in 1983 than in 2016 - something must account for that other than that WRs are better.

 

In 1983, 8 (eight!) QBs completed 60% or better of their passes.

In 2016, 29 of 32 starting QBs completed at least 60% of their passes, including two who completed 70% or better.

 

In 1983, the TD/INT ratio among starting QBs was 1.15 : 1

In 2016 the TD/INT ratio among starting QBs was 2.28 : 1

 

I think it is very hard to argue that those differences are not at least partially due to the significant rules changes that favor the passing game.

To be clear, I don't think that there is any debate that players today are better trained (some help to chemistry) and practice sport-specific skills more than earlier generations. The proof of that is in the height/weight/speed of players today vs yesterday's players. However, I can't accept that the change in today's passing game is not at least partially due to those rules changes.

No question that the completion percentage was lower and the interception rate was much higher in 1983. I think the reason for these numbers is that in 1983, teams did not use the short passing game the way modern NFL teams do. Look at the Pats under Brady: the percentage of pass plays they run is through the roof, but most are quick passes that don't travel more than 7 yards beyond the line of scrimmage, are likely to be completed and unlikely to be intercepted. Teams have realized that short passes are difficult to defend and are a better and more reliable way to pick up yardage in 3-7 yard chunks than the running game is. The average yards per completion (as opposed to per attempt) is significantly lower now than it was then.

[Guest K-GunJimKelly12]

Clearly the point you are missing (and that the poster made simply, is....where are all of the other QBs who have played 16 years? Because Brady and Brees have played a long time the rules have created a generation of super longevity QBs?

 

Well, Elway was drafted in 1983 and he lasted until 1999 (close enough) and was SB MVP his last season. MArino, also drafted in 1983 and played 17 seasons was a top 10 passer in his 16th season. See that's 2 right there in a single draft!

 

Throw in Vinnie Testaverde (22 seasons, 11th in passing his 18th year), Favre played 10 seasons before 2000. MArk Brunnel played 1000 years and most of them came during the manly man period you describe. It seems that the 90's saw more high longevity QBs than the past 10-15 years have seen.

 

Dan Marino's last full season, he was the 18th rated QB in the league. Elway threw for 2,800 yards and 22 TD's in 13 games in his last season. His RB Terell Davis had over 2000 yards that season. Vinny Testaverde was drafted in '87 and had his best year in '98 at the age of 34. He threw 21 TD's and 25 ints in 2000, wasn't any better the following years, and actually he was flat out bad. Mark Brunell was never in the upper echelon of passers. His scrambling ability made him what he was. He last good year was in '05 at the age of 34. Brett Favre was on a huge decline in his mid 30's and was able to have one great season, on a great team at 38, then was garbage after that.

 

Brady and Brees are still the best at 40 and playing like they are 25. You are clueless.

Edited March 28, 2017 by K-GunJimKelly12

[Guest K-GunJimKelly12]

Also hilarious that you bring up Testaverde being 11th in passing yards in his 18th season. That was 2004 with the Cowboys where he had 3500 yards, 17 TD's and 20 ints. Oh, and the Cowboys went 6-10 but your opinion is credible.

[row_33]

Dan Marino's last full season, he was the 18th rated QB in the league. Elway threw for 2,800 yards and 22 TD's in 13 games in his last season. His RB Terell Davis had over 2000 yards that season. Vinny Testaverde was drafted in '87 and had his best year in '98 at the age of 34. He threw 21 TD's and 25 ints in 2000, wasn't any better the following years, and actually he was flat out bad. Mark Brunell was never in the upper echelon of passers. His scrambling ability made him what he was. He last good year was in '05 at the age of 34. Brett Favre was on a huge decline in his mid 30's and was able to have one great season, on a great team at 38, then was garbage after that.

 

Brady and Brees are still the best at 40 and playing like they are 25. You are clueless.

 

Medical advancement has easily extended careers for injuries that were permanent or debilitating,

 

Does Vinny T get into the HOF? His numbers have to be up there...

[Guest K-GunJimKelly12]

Medical advancement has easily extended careers for injuries that were permanent or debilitating,

 

Does Vinny T get into the HOF? His numbers have to be up there...

 

No chance in hell. He was a mid-tier QB that hung around long enough to have inflated numbers. He was never close to great during his time in the league.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Krafty said Tommy Boy was good for six more years.

[Woodman19]

Krafty said Tommy Boy was good for six more years.

No player has ever or will ever conquer father time. Its coming sooner rather than later and its going to be very sudden.

[Augie]

No player has ever or will ever conquer father time. Its coming sooner rather than later and its going to be very sudden.

I hope it's sudden (and imminent) and it will be glorious!

 

Still have to admit GOAT, but every run ends.

[ILBillsfan]

Hate saying this but yeah Brady is the greatest QB of all time.

 

Incredible pocket presence, has never really had any strong run game or stand out WR core(Moss was at the end of his career)

 

There has never been a team that with 30s and on their own twenty you feared more then the Brady led Patriots. Their offense is sick to watch even when you know it's going to be Brady passing on you. This was painful to watch as the Falcons gifted them that SB but it still took Brady leading those drives with 2 successful 2pt conversions. And if not for a ridiculous catch by Tyree they would of had a perfect season SB year as well to add to the incredible run.

 

Yep I hate the Patriots and will be glad when father time finally gets to Brady but I can also show respect and Brady has all my respect.

[HT02]

 

And when you were a kid you walked to school uphill, both to and from, with no shoes in 8 feet of snow, year round.

Its not about how tough I had it or how easy "kids today do" its about understanding history and recognizing the game has changes and its not possible to compare across the eras. I never said Brady couldn't make it in the older game its just a fact that his numbers would be different because the rules changed.

Now you're learning

Yes I am learning not to debate with someone who supports his arguments by restating his premise.

[Mr. WEO]

Dan Marino's last full season, he was the 18th rated QB in the league. Elway threw for 2,800 yards and 22 TD's in 13 games in his last season. His RB Terell Davis had over 2000 yards that season. Vinny Testaverde was drafted in '87 and had his best year in '98 at the age of 34. He threw 21 TD's and 25 ints in 2000, wasn't any better the following years, and actually he was flat out bad. Mark Brunell was never in the upper echelon of passers. His scrambling ability made him what he was. He last good year was in '05 at the age of 34. Brett Favre was on a huge decline in his mid 30's and was able to have one great season, on a great team at 38, then was garbage after that.

 

Brady and Brees are still the best at 40 and playing like they are 25. You are clueless.

 

Lol---look at you! As I stated, Marino and Elway had very long careers--both were playing well in their next to last years (you got me!). And how did Montana do in his final years?

 

After Brady and Brees, where are all the other guys in the league now who have been playing for 15 plus years, like there were in the 90's-00's?

[bdutton]

Thus is a very strange metric and incredibly short-sighted post. I will explain in further detail when I have more time.

 

 

[Figster]

No player has ever or will ever conquer father time. Its coming sooner rather than later and its going to be very sudden.

I agree,

 

How about 1 to 3 tops

[row_33]

 

Lol---look at you! As I stated, Marino and Elway had very long careers--both were playing well in their next to last years (you got me!). And how did Montana do in his final years?

 

After Brady and Brees, where are all the other guys in the league now who have been playing for 15 plus years, like there were in the 90's-00's?

 

Joe took almost two whole years off to recover from the Leonard Marshall hit.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

die thread die.

 

Its bad enough talking about him during the season much less the offseason

[Guest K-GunJimKelly12]

 

Lol---look at you! As I stated, Marino and Elway had very long careers--both were playing well in their next to last years (you got me!). And how did Montana do in his final years?

 

After Brady and Brees, where are all the other guys in the league now who have been playing for 15 plus years, like there were in the 90's-00's?

Dan Marino at 37 threw for the 7th most yards in the league but was the 18th rated QB and his TD/INT ratio wasn't great 22/15. At age 38, his last year in the league he had a QB rating of 67.4 while throwing 12 TD's and 17 INT's.

 

Elway retired at 38 and while he was good, he was nowhere near the player he was earlier in his career and nowhere near the player Brady/Brees are now at 39/38 respectively.

 

Joe Montana retired at the age of 34, and while he did not have a terrible season, it was clear he wasn't the player he once was.

 

So basically you are trying to say that Elway being a good QB at 38, Marino being an above average (statistically below average) at 37 and a flat out bad QB at 38 and Montana being good in his final years, even though he retired at 34 is equivalent to Brady and Brees tearing up the league at the age of 39 and 38 with no signs of slowing down, and still being in the top tier of QB's along with Aaron Rodgers? These guys are not only not declining, they are still the very best in the league. But you are right, Marino and Elway were still playing like they were in their prime in their late 30's.

 

You keep trying to put up an argument, but when presented with the facts you do your best to dodge what I am saying and are vague while defending your own argument. There are people who have made legitimate points in this thread that counter my argument, you are not one of them.

Edited March 30, 2017 by K-GunJimKelly12

[zonabb]

Just so I'm clear, you're admitting he's the best QB in this era and I think we'd all agree that in terms of skills, quality, complication, and competition, this is the best era of football. So that by logic makes him the GOAT.

 

Unless of course you want to go back to the 1940s or 1950s football, which was garbage.

[TheFunPolice]

I'm convinced we'll never be able to enjoy Brady's decline.

 

Peyton Manning wanted chunks of yards down the middle of the field. Always was that way, which is why he had trouble in the playoffs IMO. He always had trouble being patient. He would get frustrated and try to force those seam passes for 15-20 yard gains. Always wanted more, more, more. go, go go.

 

Once Manning got older and the injury to his neck started taking zip off the ball he just couldn't do it anymore because he liked throwing intermediate and longer passes. So he hit a wall FAST.

 

Brady's game is patience. He will wait you out. He'll go 3 and out a few times. He'll take your body shots. Then he'll find your weakness or what you're not covering and just throw the same pass 25 times until you do something about it.

 

I think he threw 154 swing passes to a wide open RB in the Super Bowl. Maybe it was 200.

 

Brady could toss little 5 yard screens and swing passes to his RB for the next 20 years. He almost never throws deep or even intermediate passes, and when he does it isn't great anymore. That's when he throws INT.

 

Brady's game is built to last. Unless he starts missing targets that are 5-10 yards away or gets hurt do not expect any type of drop off in his game.

 

It's hard to throw INT with those types of passes. He'll probably have 4,000 yards, 35 TD and 3 INT this season.

Edited March 31, 2017 by TheFunPolice