Building through the draft doesnt seem to be working.

[Nklaiste1]

I wouldn't blame it on "building through the draft"

I would blame it on Whaley being a terrible GM.

Nix was a terrible, terrible GM. Whaley has butchered his drafts so far, but I will admit, Nix and Brandon put him in about as bad of a position as possible.

I actually think Nix was a lot better GM than Whaley.

 

Go back and look at his drafts. At least he picked a lot of solid players.

Edited March 12, 2017 by Nklaiste1

[Buffalo Barbarian]

 

Good thing is he left us with Ragland, Lawson and Washington which fit McDermott's system perfectly. If the offense can do what they did last year we have a good chance of being right there for the wild card.

 

explain how Ragland fits perfectly?

 

he was drafted as a downhill thumper in a 34 and now McD wants light LBs that can drop back into coverage.

I wouldn't blame it on "building through the draft"

I would blame it on Whaley being a terrible GM.

I actually think Nix was a lot better GM than Whaley.

 

Go back and look at his drafts. At least he picked a lot of solid players.

 

[Pbomb]

2013 was a bad draft for most teams and nix's last year. Also we have 4 players from 2014 and 2015 left so looks like the op is trying to make stuff up to push his agenda, im guessing the whaley sucks one.

 

2014 - 7 picks - sammy , ck , preston brown , and henderson still on team. Richardson and randell johnson were late round picks and didnt work out, cockrell starts for pitt now but rex tried to "sneak him on the practice squad". Pb seemed pretty good also his rookie year until rex came around. Ck obviously is disappointing but he is also starting to play better, hopefully he can transfer his success at lt to rt

 

2015 - 6 picks - darby, miller, oleary, and lewis still on team. Karlos also looked like a hit until he became fat and lazy and couldnt put the pipe down, steward was another late round pick that didnt pan out. Darby and miller start. oleary has started to contribute. Lewis doesnt seem to be working out but he was also a 7th round pick.

 

2016 - 7 picks - all 7 on team still

 

So in whaleys 3 drafts as full gm there are 15 out of 20 picks here. Im guessing that is pretty much in line with other teams

Edited March 12, 2017 by Pbomb

[Buddo]

I think it's a combination of all sorts of things.

 

Constant scheme and coaching changes haven't helped, at all. Players themselves like continuity, and will be more inclined to stick, when there is some.

 

Once you get beyond the 2nd round, the CBA contract rules, make it increasingly difficult to keep guys who are just about to 'break out', especially when the rest of the NFL is perpetually sniffing around everyone else's rosters. You spend 3 years getting them ready, only for another team to whip them away from under your nose, for a couple of million more. Don't get me wrong, we would happily do the self same thing, and be glad about it, but it's an issue for everyone, and not just the Bills.

 

It might be more interesting to see how many 4th year players you have on a roster, as opposed to guys drafted. Could become a better method of evaluating how a GM is doing, rather than simply being about how many guys you draft, you retain.

 

Viewing numbers in isolation, doesn't help either. Are the Bills that much worse than other teams? Are other teams who are better at retaining guys, actually performing better on the field? How many draft picks have been used in that time, and does the % the Bills retain, match up to that of other teams? Pats might have more guys on their roster that they drafted, for example, but from how many picks?

 

The 2015 draft, had us with 6 picks. Of those, only 2 are not still with the Bills, Steward and Karlos. Steward could be considered a 'bust', as can Karlos, yet Karlos was a 'bust' through his own actions, and not from a lack of ability.

Steward has been beset by injuries. Darby and Miller, are very likely to be with us for the foreseeable future. O'Leary hasn't done badly, for a 6th rounder, and has found ways to contribute. Lewis might still develop.

 

We get the same sort of value from 6 picks this year, I'm not going to be complaining in a hurry.

[DefenseWins]

Whaley's biggest mistake was the idiot tradeup to select Watkins in my view. But if you remember in 2012 after the Bills selected Gilmore in rd 1 and Glenn in rd 2 Buddy Nix wasted the Bills rd 3 pick on TJ Graham leaving QB's like Russell Wilson, Nick Foles and Kirk Cousins on the board among other possible picks... How might that have changed the course of Bills history?

 

Buddy drafted EJ in 2013 after trading down with then St Louis which drafted T. Austin as you might recall...

 

And to be fair to Whaley I do not believe that HE hired Rex... More likely Peg's made that call - and understandibly so... Peg's was a new owner and wanted obviously to make a splash right? I mean who was Whaley to disagree with the new owner?

 

Also to be fair to Whaley he has brought in a number of lesser player acquisitions that have been positive (Lorax being one)...

 

But let's remember that the NFL is a pass driven league and the importance of having a top notch QB cannot be understated... That is why I am in favor of drafting a 1st rd QB this year... It would be great to trade down a bit if you could pick up another high draft pick (2nd or 3rd rd) and still get one of the top 4 Qb's most talked about.... I have no favorite per se and leave the talent evaluations to Whaley and the FO to determine... The Bills need help at WR, CB and RT too just to name a few... But if you keep ignoring the obvious need at the most critical position on the roster nothing is ever gonna change...

[GunnerBill]

 

Nix was great at Oline we should bring back as special advisor for that, because Whaley is horrible with them and of course QBs

Was he? He picked Cordy.... that was it. Levitre and Wood were Marv.

 

Whaley has built a pretty good o-line. What looked like his big miss was Koundjio. If it turns out he is actually a solid tackle who can only play left side because a knee issue that strengthens Whaley's case. John Miller graded as one of the league's most improved players year 1 to year 2 (which should be no surprise it was evident watching the games).

 

They need a right tackle. I agree with that... I am just not sure there is one in this draft.

[Homer]

I didnt mean for this to become or sound like a gripe session. I believe that Whaley is very good at pro personel,and I love most of his draft picks I think he makes picks a year in advance of need hence Seymour and Listenbee are in place to help cover the lost of FAs like Gilmore and Woods.

[QCity]

Anyone who thinks we're attempting to build through the draft, clearly doesn't understand what building through the draft means.

[wppete]

...because we are not building thru the draft...Whaley comes from a pro player personnel background...that's why he prefers building through FA instead.

It has to be done with both Draft and Free Agency.

[Riverboat Richie]

Maybe if they stop changing coaching staffs every two years they could decide on what type of team they are going to be on O and D, then pick and sign the players that actually fit that system. How are you going to build through the draft when you're never sure what you are building?

[cd1]

Actually it was working just fine till the bills picked a coach that wanted to hammer his square peg into a round hole (no pun intended)

 

We had a top 5 D......the team was showing all kinds of promise but the offense was lacklusteer

 

Then

 

Rex comes in and destroys a top 5 D.....but makes good decisions on his OC and the offensive group (that got hardly any draft help...it mostly went tot he defense) churns out the 7th most points in the league

 

What would have happened had the tow sides been in sinc? High probablility of playoffs at least.

 

The player's need to match the offensive and defensive philosophies.....its not the drafting.

This is some very sound reasoning!!!! Thank you.

[Big Curt]

16 Buffalo Bills Manuel, EJEJ Manuel QB Florida State ACC 2 39 New York Jets Smith, GenoGeno Smith QB 3 73 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Glennon, Mike N.C. State ACC 4 98 Philadelphia Eagles Barkley, Matt USC Pac-12 from Jacksonville ^{[R4 - 1]} 4 110 New York Giants Nassib, RyanRyan Nassib QB 4 112 Oakland Raiders Wilson, TylerQB Pittsburgh Steelers Jones, Landry QB Sorensen, QB Southern Utah Big Sky 7 Zac Dysert QB Miami (OH) MAC 7 237 San Francisco 49ers Daniels, B. J.B. J. Daniels

 

Will someone tell me what DW and Buddy nix was supposed to do with this crop of No good NFL Quarterbacks? The Bills felt they took the best one available. DW missed on EJ manual but the pressure was on the team to draft a QB, so they did. DW is not perfect but he's obtained more talent on this roster since 2004 and since the playoff years.

Edited March 13, 2017 by Big Curt

[MarkyMannn]

A wise man once said, "Never confuse effort with results."

Don't know about you and your posts but..................... Impractical Jokers ROCKS

[PromoTheRobot]

Number of players still on this team from yearly draft.

 

2010 zero players still on the team.

2011 one player Dareus

2012 one player Glenn

2013 zero players still on the team

2014 Three players

2015 Three players

2016 Seven players

 

15 players in 7 years doesnt seem to be very effective. Hopefully this coaching staff will win and stay so we can stop losing our players to scheme changes. Is this the only reason this is ineffective?

Hi Timmah. I see you've come back under an alias.

16 Buffalo Bills Manuel, EJEJ Manuel QB Florida State ACC 2 39 New York Jets Smith, GenoGeno Smith QB 3 73 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Glennon, Mike N.C. State ACC 4 98 Philadelphia Eagles Barkley, Matt USC Pac-12 from Jacksonville ^{[R4 - 1]} 4 110 New York Giants Nassib, RyanRyan Nassib QB 4 112 Oakland Raiders Wilson, TylerQB Pittsburgh Steelers Jones, Landry QB Sorensen, QB Southern Utah Big Sky 7 Zac Dysert QB Miami (OH) MAC 7 237 San Francisco 49ers Daniels, B. J.B. J. Daniels

 

Will someone tell me what DW and Buddy nix was supposed to do with this crop of No good NFL Quarterbacks? The Bills felt they took the best one available. DW missed on EJ manual but the pressure was on the team to draft a QB, so they did. DW is not perfect but he's obtained more talent on this roster since 2004 and since the playoff years.

They will say the same thing about 2017. But just like today, some people were convincing themselves this collection of stiffs were franchise players.

[wppete]

The Bills should be mainly building through the draft

However that's impossible to do if you keep trading up, giving up 1st rounders, and other draft picks

Though I love watching Sammy play, looking back we should have been trading down every draft

Accumulating even more draft picks

Not trading them away for Bryce Brown, etc, and or for Sammy, and for Ragland, giving away picks

And like 2015 always accumulating comp picks

Its the only way to keep players at reasonable salaries for 4 years and more picks increase your hit ratio

Look I like DW's work, but my biggest criticism is he's too readily giving away our picks and not accumulating more

 

jc

 

We need to Trade down if we make any trades. We need to accumulate picks not give them away.

[BillsFanInJax]

...because we are not building thru the draft...Whaley comes from a pro player personnel background...that's why he prefers building through FA instead.

Oh then why should the Bills show up at the draft at all. Whaley's a pro personnel guy. Who comes up with this stuff??

[jethro_tull]

Bills are dead last in the league in roster % of draft picks (22%). Chicago is right after the Bills and we know what a powerhouse they are.

Perennial playoff teams typically have 60% of their roster home grown draft picks.

There really isn't another way to build a consistent winner and they won't be until this changes.

The good news is that last year's draft seems like a step in the right direction- unfortunately it could easily have been Rex's draft and not Whaley's.

Edited March 15, 2017 by jethro_tull

[Elite Poster]

 

Whaley built a hell of a defense, too. Then the Pegulas forced Rex Ryan down his throat.

I guess I didn't realize that. Hm.

For the people that piss and moan about the 2013 draft, I encourage you to take a look at everyone drafted in the first. Bunch of bums.

[H2o]

Bills are dead last in the league in roster % of draft picks (22%). Chicago is right after the Bills and we know what a powerhouse they are.

Perennial playoff teams typically have 60% of their roster home grown draft picks.

There really isn't another way to build a consistent winner and they won't be until this changes.

The good news is that last year's draft seems like a step in the right direction- unfortunately it could easily have been Rex's draft and not Whaley's.

Whaley is entering his 4th year as GM. The guys before him have not been so great. This will be his 4th draft. We have changed schemes 3 times in that time. That leaves you with a lot of roster turnover. We also traded away picks to make a few moves in the draft. With the way things were when he took over and the instability of the coaching staff you see what you you see as far as the roster goes. Blind percentages don't tell the whole story. Whaley has definitely upgraded the roster as a whole, he has just had to do it in a manner other than relying solely on the draft because of the task set before him.

[Pbomb]

Bills are dead last in the league in roster % of draft picks (22%). Chicago is right after the Bills and we know what a powerhouse they are.

Perennial playoff teams typically have 60% of their roster home grown draft picks.

There really isn't another way to build a consistent winner and they won't be until this changes.

The good news is that last year's draft seems like a step in the right direction- unfortunately it could easily have been Rex's draft and not Whaley's.

 

whaley has 15 of his 20 picks from 3 years on the roster now