thurst44 Posted March 12, 2017 Posted March 12, 2017 So you don't think there's a cause for concern if we used 3rd and 4th round picks on a fullback, kicker and backup guard? This place would have a meltdown if Whaley took a kicker or a fullback in the 3rd round. There's cause for hesitation because none of us truly know the formula and that's from all sides. But I've seen plenty of posters dismiss the loss of Gilmore partially because we'll get a third round pick out of it, which we don't know to be the case. I'm merely pointing out that some of the best run teams in the league (the Ravens, Pats, Packers) absolutely worry about what they'll get back from the comp pick formula. Well run teams don't try to find 5 starters in free agency every single year, they build a cheap sustainable talent base through the draft. Our lack of draft picks through the Whaley years has been well documented, it's partially due to trading up to get players and partially due to attempting to patch cracks on the roster through free agency every year. Hauschka was released and does not count towards the formula. Neither does Tolbert, for that matter. I believe Dimarco does though.
without a drought Posted March 12, 2017 Posted March 12, 2017 Everyone knows that the road to the playoffs and ultimately the Super Bowl is paved with comp. picks, everyone except OBD. For those who always believed it was the QB position, it's time to wake up and smell the coffee. At least comp. picks can now be traded so there is still a chance to pick up a few.
klos63 Posted March 12, 2017 Posted March 12, 2017 Ah okay. But Tolbert out Hauschka in my point remains. And teams don't win by "upgrading the full back position". Felton is a good blocker and when we cut him last year he spent a week sitting out there before we brought him back for vet minimum. Full backs should be cheap. Having said that DiMarco does know the offense. At least that is something apparently Hauschka was cut too, so he doesnt' count either. Your argument is losing strength. Nothing negative about upgrading a position with an Pro Bowl player.
DanInUticaTampa Posted March 12, 2017 Posted March 12, 2017 This is nothing new and just shows the stupidity of letting Gilmore walk without a plan That's simple. Darby takes over at CB1 and we have to replace CB2 with someone on the roster, draft, or free agency.
klos63 Posted March 12, 2017 Posted March 12, 2017 Hauschka was released and does not count towards the formula. Neither does Tolbert, for that matter. I believe Dimarco does though. So since you are already dismantling the argument for losing the comp picks, can we all just wait til free agency is over before condenming the FO and maybe focus on improving THIS YEARS team. That's simple. Darby takes over at CB1 and we have to replace CB2 with someone on the roster, draft, or free agency. Makes sense. Ah okay. But Tolbert out Hauschka in my point remains. And teams don't win by "upgrading the full back position". Felton is a good blocker and when we cut him last year he spent a week sitting out there before we brought him back for vet minimum. Full backs should be cheap. Having said that DiMarco does know the offense. At least that is something He is an upgrade over Felton - THAT is something.
Augie Posted March 12, 2017 Posted March 12, 2017 So since you are already dismantling the argument for losing the comp picks, can we all just wait til free agency is over before condenming the FO and maybe focus on improving THIS YEARS team. Makes sense. He is an upgrade over Felton - THAT is something. You don't hate enough for some on here!
GunnerBill Posted March 12, 2017 Posted March 12, 2017 (edited) Okay so what is the actual count? 1 FB, 1 G, 2 S coming in. Gimore and Woods out.... anyone else? If it is 4 and 2 then Bryant and Brown will equalise the count if we don't sign anyone else. My issue with targetting full backs and swing guards in the first wave of free agency remains. EDIT: the guy was wrong on Hauschka. Definitely a FA not a cut. Counts on the formula. Edited March 12, 2017 by GunnerBill
sodbuster Posted March 12, 2017 Posted March 12, 2017 Okay so what is the actual count? 1 FB, 1 G, 2 S coming in. Gimore and Woods out.... anyone else? If it is 4 and 2 then Bryant and Brown will equalise the count if we don't sign anyone else. My issue with targetting full backs and swing guards in the first wave of free agency remains. Goodwin.
GunnerBill Posted March 12, 2017 Posted March 12, 2017 Lerentee McCray counts as well He signed for the Jags didn't he? So far then we have 5 in and 4 out. If we don't sign anyone else we have nothing to worry about. Brown and Bryant will be on rosters next year.
Wayne Cubed Posted March 12, 2017 Posted March 12, 2017 He signed for the Jags didn't he? So far then we have 5 in and 4 out. If we don't sign anyone else we have nothing to worry about. Brown and Bryant will be on rosters next year. I would think EJ latches on somewhere as well, as a backup. There also Hunter, Tate and Felton, who will most likely be on teams next season.
oldmanfan Posted March 12, 2017 Posted March 12, 2017 This thread is simply an excuse for front office bashing. There is no reality to the numbers as if yet.
muppy Posted March 12, 2017 Posted March 12, 2017 But screaming into the ether after 47 hours seems entirely more Billsy as an approach. lol hahahahaaa good one
thebandit27 Posted March 12, 2017 Posted March 12, 2017 (edited) He signed for the Jags didn't he? So far then we have 5 in and 4 out. If we don't sign anyone else we have nothing to worry about. Brown and Bryant will be on rosters next year. Correct Edited March 12, 2017 by thebandit27
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted March 12, 2017 Posted March 12, 2017 We have been linked to Claiborne as a CB signing......Oh wait we need to be careful and not sign anyone because we are trying to accumulate compensatory picks.
GunnerBill Posted March 12, 2017 Posted March 12, 2017 We have been linked to Claiborne as a CB signing......Oh wait we need to be careful and not sign anyone because we are trying to accumulate compensatory picks. A legitimate starting CB is worth risking compensatory picks for. That was my point in the other thread... I don't think backup guards and fullbacks are.
oldmanfan Posted March 12, 2017 Posted March 12, 2017 The fullbacks are likely pivotal to what Dennison wants to run. DeMarco is a great blocker and a better receiver than Felton.
hondo in seattle Posted March 12, 2017 Posted March 12, 2017 If I asked you if signing guys like Vladimir Ducasse, Jordan Poyer & a Fulback was worth forgoing a 3rd round pick and a 4th round pick in next years draft would any smart GM say yes? Serious question, because that's what the Bills have done. You need to have a net loss of UFA's to lock in comp. picks the Bills have failed to do this. As of now, they have gained one more UFA than they've lost and they don't have many of their own UFA's left to be signed elsewhere. For a team that's no where near ready to compete for championships, to be blowing free draft picks to sign what amounts to depth players is asinine. http://overthecap.com/compensatory-draft-picks-cancellation-chart/ There are many ways to work the comp. pick system, something teams ike the Ravens, Patriots and Packers seem to do every yr., yet the Bills are still totally lost. You can use trades, pickup guys that are cut, sign guys post June 1. The NFL has put in place a system that compensates and rewards teams for losing good FA's. This year that happens to be Gilmore (3rd rounder) and Wood (4th rounder), but instead of taking advantage of this system the Bills were in a big rush to sign K's, FB's and backup OL that have essentially cost them those 2 solid draft picks. Now that comp. picks can be traded, they are even more valuable, IMO, which makes this error on the Bills part even more infuriating. Another important and often forgotten part of this is that you can fill in holes on your roster with these comp. picks for very low rookie salaries. So say you use the 3rd and 4th round comp. picks on a FB & an OL instead of Vlad Ducasse and Patrick Dimarco. So, instead of paying veteran FA's $2-$3M per year you pay guys close to the vet min. of 600-700k. That's a significant savings that can be reallocated to other areas of need on the roster. For those that want to make the argument that the rookie pleyers may suck compared to the vets that were brought in via FA......fair point: But, my counter tot hat would be to just keep guys like Felton and Corey Graham then & still pick up the free 3rd and 4th round comp. picks. This is one small aspect to roster building and player management, but it's an important one. And it's one that many of the consistently good teams have figured out how to maneuver......and one the Bills still continually EFF UP. This is premature. Let's see how it all plays out before concluding the FO effed up.
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted March 12, 2017 Posted March 12, 2017 A legitimate starting CB is worth risking compensatory picks for. That was my point in the other thread... I don't think backup guards and fullbacks are. I understand....just couldn't resist the sarcasm.
wilcoam Posted March 12, 2017 Posted March 12, 2017 Still massive inaccurate information in this thread which really disservices Bills fans who would like to learn more about comp picks work The Seattle K was a unrestricted free agent, not a released player The current count is we lost 4 FA's and we signed 5 FA's We lost Gilmore, Woods, McCray, and Goodwin We gained Poyer, Hyde, Ducasse, Dimarco, the K Yes Tolbert was a released player We are currently negative one and are currently not getting any comp picks for losing Gilmore and or Woods and likely Brown This is undisputible fact Next, the post which claimed the max number of comp picks is two is also factually incorrect Denver, Cincy, and Cleveland got 4 last year, we got none But to DW's credit we did get 2 nice one's in 2015 which resulted in drafting C Jones and K Seymour Finally, the last post that said more Bills will end on other rosters is also misleading, yes it 'could' happen, fingers crossed it does However if they sign after Jun 1st we don't get the credit I repeat for current number, negative one, stays 200% factual, as of today Unless things change we are not getting 2018 comp picks jc
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