Why our offense will click

[FireChan]

Our zone run team will be clicking like a clock thanks to 1 person in particular

 

Mr. Shady McCoy

 

The best player on our team and IMO a certified HoF once he hangs up his cleats (1,046 yards from 10,000)

 

He is the diesel fuel that makes our engine run

 

And he is PERFECT for a Shannahanesque zone run system

 

I easily see another 1,300-1400 yard campaign with another 12+ TDs

 

His vision and ability to make defender's miss is top notch and I don't see him slowing down any time soon barring injury

 

Can't believe we traded for a back like shady

 

A HoF IMO

He did that last year. So what's changed?

[wilcoam]

No question we seem to have upgraded our offense slightly with the addition of Demarco over Fulton

And a healthy Gragg is hopefully back

However I'm not sure how anyone can say with certainty our offense is going to click without still a more viable starting RT

And only 2 WR on the roster, both off which are not 100% healthy, and one who has yet to play a single snap in the NFL

For those counting we are missing a #2WR, a #3WR, a #4 WR, and a #5WR

So at this moment we're in trouble pending more FA and the draft

 

jc

[BuffAlone]

 

And how many games did he leave early ? at least 5 per year

lots of star players leave games early.depends on the game,does it not? Not always due to "injury". Sometimes it's injury protection,when the scoreboard don't reflect that specific player's need

[Maury Ballstein]

He is not durable enough to play more then 10 games completely healthy

 

I am willing to bet you on that....

You better get off #badols corner. That seat is taken!

[re enlightener]

Our zone run team will be clicking like a clock thanks to 1 person in particular

 

Mr. Shady McCoy

 

The best player on our team and IMO a certified HoF once he hangs up his cleats (1,046 yards from 10,000)

 

He is the diesel fuel that makes our engine run

 

And he is PERFECT for a Shannahanesque zone run system

 

I easily see another 1,300-1400 yard campaign with another 12+ TDs

 

His vision and ability to make defender's miss is top notch and I don't see him slowing down any time soon barring injury

 

Can't believe we traded for a back like shady

 

A HoF IMO

hey great post Mrs. mccoy, say hi to your son for me.

[BADOLBILZ]

I would say everybody knows we were going to run the ball but for RR to telegraph it was complete stupidity

 

As for why the running game went down when shady did

 

I would say it is as much on TT as it is on Gillislee... A young runner running with 9 in the box is tough

 

TT needed to open the box more with his arm

 

I think we draft another 1 this year as well

 

 

I don't see 1300-1400 yards........that's back to around 300 carries and not realistic.

 

He injured his hamstring in camp of 2015 and re-injured it in season that year and the same one AGAIN last season........at this point they need to keep him fresh and hope for the best.

 

As for 12 TD's........perhaps but last year was likely the greatest season in terms of production per play in the run game that they will ever have......it will be HARD to top having a back lead the league in ypc AND also have Lesean McCoy putting up big #'s.

 

And keep in mind also.......running backs don't just get a tick worse each year.......their production drops fast and he's high mileage and he entered the league young so at 29 he's been carrying the ball a lot for a very long time.......it happens to the best of em'.

 

Now as for the notion that the running game was bad without him.......that's totally incorrect.

 

In the 10 quarters after McCoy tore his MCL in the first half versus Washington in 2015.....Karlos and MG still averaged THEIR regular 5.5 ypc and scored a ton of TD's........FAR more productive than Shady had been that year.

 

And in the two games where Shady was "hamstrung" in 2016(@Miami & vs. NE) Gillislee ran for over 6 ypc..........the running game without Shady was by no means lessened.......in fact, his trying to play in that Miami game did a lot more harm than good.

[Buffalo716]

I don't see 1300-1400 yards........that's back to around 300 carries and not realistic.

 

He injured his hamstring in camp of 2015 and re-injured it in season that year and the same one AGAIN last season........at this point they need to keep him fresh and hope for the best.

 

As for 12 TD's........perhaps but last year was likely the greatest season in terms of production per play in the run game that they will ever have......it will be HARD to top having a back lead the league in ypc AND also have Lesean McCoy putting up big #'s.

 

And keep in mind also.......running backs don't just get a tick worse each year.......their production drops fast and he's high mileage and he entered the league young so at 29 he's been carrying the ball a lot for a very long time.......it happens to the best of em'.

 

Now as for the notion that the running game was bad without him.......that's totally incorrect.

 

In the 10 quarters after McCoy tore his MCL in the first half versus Washington in 2015.....Karlos and MG still averaged THEIR regular 5.5 ypc and scored a ton of TD's........FAR more productive than Shady had been that year.

 

And in the two games where Shady was "hamstrung" in 2016(@Miami & vs. NE) Gillislee ran for over 6 ypc..........the running game without Shady was by no means lessened.......in fact, his trying to play in that Miami game did a lot more harm than good.

Shady has not taken too many big hits in his career

 

He EASILY has 2-4 solid years

 

And I like Gillislee but you're crazy if you think he's better than shady

 

Him and Karlos BOTH IMMENSELY BENEFITED playing behind him

 

Gillislee isn't a 5.5 ypc back as the lead horse for 16 games

Edited March 11, 2017 by Buffalo716

[BillsVet]

No question we seem to have upgraded our offense slightly with the addition of Demarco over Fulton

And a healthy Gragg is hopefully back

However I'm not sure how anyone can say with certainty our offense is going to click without still a more viable starting RT

And only 2 WR on the roster, both off which are not 100% healthy, and one who has yet to play a single snap in the NFL

For those counting we are missing a #2WR, a #3WR, a #4 WR, and a #5WR

So at this moment we're in trouble pending more FA and the draft

 

jc

 

Chris Gragg? His contract expired and even if he came back, he's neither a solid blocker nor a deep threat (if TT could stand in the pocket long enough).

 

McCoy is the wrong back for this offense, which needs one cut types to be decisive. Not someone who dances and will more frequently take losses. If Gillislee is here next season I would expect him to get about as many carries as McCoy.

 

Besides, McCoy has 8 seasons of wear and tear on him and after all, how many backs at 29 are running for 1000+ yards?

 

Just because they were successful last year running the ball doesn't mean it'll occur this year. Players age, schemes change, and defensives adapt to what you're doing. At the same time, they have the element of surprise because this offensive side hasn't run Dennison's offense. I just see them using McCoy differently to the point his production will drop.

[nucci]

not very many rb's play more than 10 games "completely healthy".in fact, I doubt ANY do. Kind of a heads I win,tails you lose wager

Neither do linemen LBs DBs.....

[BADOLBILZ]

Shady has not taken too many big hits in his career

 

He EASILY has 2-4 solid years

 

And I like Gillislee but you're crazy if you think he's better than shady

 

Him and Karlos BOTH IMMENSELY BENEFITED playing behind him

 

Gillislee isn't a 5.5 ypc back as the lead horse for 16 games

 

I agree with the lack of big hits........as I said it's more the leg injuries that concern me.

 

It's not about whether Gillislee is BETTER than McCoy.......I never said that...... that's you being thin skinned about your take being disproven statistically........ it's just simply not true that the run game couldn't function at the same level(or better in 2015) without him.......that idea is just something made up by a group of people who are a bit too caught up in the celebrity adoration to be honest about it.

 

The Bills run offense was facilitated by Tyrod Taylor.........his presence kept defensive fronts at the LOS, a spy off of it and at least one safety FAR away from it......which allowed the Bills OL to get into slower developing blocks in Roman's system......which in turn allowed the Bills RB's the most yardage PRIOR to contact in the NFL. From there, Shady and MG were able to "get in space" and "get downhill" respectively.

 

If they can keep MG all the key players in the the run game are back......they seem to have a better FB........but the aspect that is unknown is whether this OL will do well as a zone blocking unit.

 

Generally, the Shanny/Kubiak/Dennison offense has emphasized more athletic, quicker OL and this Bills unit it not really that. Their level of play jumped dramatically switching from a "zone" type blocking scheme that Marrone preferred so there is some cause for concern that it may revert.

 

But on the plus side.......all the pieces appear to be coming back and perhaps Dennison will incorporate a bit of the pin and pull action this unit did so well.......wouldn't be that hard.

Edited March 11, 2017 by #BADOL

[Buffalo716]

I agree with the lack of big hits........as I said it's more the leg injuries that concern me.

 

It's not about whether Gillislee is BETTER than McCoy.......I never said that...... that's you being thin skinned about your take being disproven statistically........ it's just simply not true that the run game couldn't function at the same level(or better in 2015) without him.......that idea is just something made up by a group of people who are a bit too caught up in the celebrity adoration to be honest about it.

 

The Bills run offense was facilitated by Tyrod Taylor.........his presence kept defensive fronts at the LOS, a spy off of it and at least one safety FAR away from it......which allowed the Bills OL to get into slower developing blocks in Roman's system......which in turn allowed the Bills RB's the most yardage PRIOR to contact in the NFL. From there, Shady and MG were able to "get in space" and "get downhill" respectively.

 

If they can keep MG all the key players in the the run game are back......they seem to have a better FB........but the aspect that is unknown is whether this OL will do well as a zone blocking unit.

 

Generally, the Shanny/Kubiak/Dennison offense has emphasized more athletic, quicker OL and this Bills unit it not really that. Their level of play jumped dramatically switching from a "zone" type blocking scheme that Marrone preferred so there is some cause for concern that it may revert.

 

But on the plus side.......all the pieces appear to be coming back and perhaps Dennison will incorporate a bit of the pin and pull action this unit did so well.......wouldn't be that hard.

 

It doenst disprove anything I said

 

I never said our run game disappeared when shady went down

 

It became less effective

 

Chunk runs boost YPC... There was A WHOLE LOT of 3 yards and a cloud of dust when shady went down 2 years ago

 

And last year , we refused to run when he went down and Gillislee only got 10-14 touches.. he should look fantastic on that amount of carries, he's fresh

 

Gillislee also doesn't get gameplanned for the same way shady is

 

I really really like him a LOT but I dont even think someone will pick up his tender

Edited March 12, 2017 by Buffalo716

[BADOLBILZ]

It doenst disprove anything I said

 

I never said our run game disappeared when shady went down

 

It became less effective

 

Chunk runs boost YPC... There was A WHOLE LOT of 3 yards and a cloud of dust when shady went down 2 years ago

 

And last year , we refused to run when he went down and Gillislee only got 10 touches.. he should look fantastic on 10 carries, he's fresh

 

 

AS I TOLD YOU.......that wasn't the case.......Karlos and MG each AVERAGED 5.5 ypc in his absence in those 3 games at the end of 2015.....a full yard+ more than Shady that year........and the same as they had when he was healthy.

 

And they scored a bunch of TD's and of course had a bunch of long runs....you don't average 5.5-6 ypc without big plays.

 

And they also greatly outscored Washington after that point........and won the other two games.

 

An argument certainly can be made that they were better off without him at the end of 2015......the rushing totals were higher than normal without him.

 

Shady played MUCH better in 2016........but he just shouldn't have been on the field in Miami.

 

MG was running well and should have gotten all the carries that day rather than giving it to Shady 8 times for 11 yards.

 

But Miami controlled the clock/shortened the game so it wasn't going to be a 30 carry day..........then the following week the Bills were getting blown out by NE, which had nothing to do with Shady being present or not.......you don't run much when you are way behind.

[Buffalo716]

AS I TOLD YOU.......that wasn't the case.......Karlos and MG each AVERAGED 5.5 ypc in his absence in those 3 games at the end of 2015.....a full yard+ more than Shady that year........and the same as they had when he was healthy.

 

And they scored a bunch of TD's and of course had a bunch of long runs....you don't average 5.5-6 ypc without big plays.

 

And they also greatly outscored Washington after that point........and won the other two games.

 

An argument certainly can be made that they were better off without him at the end of 2015......the rushing totals were higher than normal without him.

 

Shady played MUCH better in 2016........but he just shouldn't have been on the field in Miami.

 

MG was running well and should have gotten all the carries that day rather than giving it to Shady 8 times for 11 yards.

 

But Miami controlled the clock/shortened the game so it wasn't going to be a 30 carry day..........then the following week the Bills were getting blown out by NE, which had nothing to do with Shady being present or not.......you don't run much when you are way behind.

 

Karlos Williams was 18 for 40 2.2 against giants

 

6 for 11 vs New England

 

And 6-24 against the Jets

 

That's his 3 starts

Edited March 12, 2017 by Buffalo716

[BADOLBILZ]

Karlos Williams was 18 for 40 2.2 against giants

 

6 for 11 vs New England

 

And 6-24 against the Jets

 

That's his 3 starts

 

Matt Cassell also "started' the opener in 2015.

 

McCoy got most of the snaps in both 2015 NE games........so you have no point there........are you confusing seasons for fuxake?

 

In that Giants game he was severely concussed but kept playing.........he missed a MONTH of the season due to it.

 

That was the excuse used all season to "prove" Karlos was only a complementary back.

 

Like I said.......he and MG went off after McCoy got carted off........but they were already doing it.

[Buffalo716]

Matt Cassell also "started' the opener in 2015.

 

McCoy got most of the snaps in both 2015 NE games........so you have no point there........are you confusing seasons for fuxake?

 

In that Giants game he was severely concussed but kept playing.........he missed a MONTH of the season due to it.

 

That was the excuse used all season to "prove" Karlos was only a complementary back.

 

Like I said.......he and MG went off after McCoy got carted off........but they were already doing it.

Karlos DID NOT average 5.5 in 3 starts

 

He only played here for 1 year.. he had 3 starts. Never tore it up in any of the 3

 

That's my point from 2015

 

Gillislees been mostly very steady

 

Gillislee tore up Dallas 9-93 in his start in 2015

 

But the next week was 24-28 against the Jets

 

He was great last year tho

Edited March 12, 2017 by Buffalo716

[BADOLBILZ]

Karlos DID NOT average 5.5 in 3 starts

 

He only played here for 1 year.. he had 3 starts. Never tore it up in any of the 3

 

That's my point from 2015

 

Gillislees been mostly very steady

 

Gillislee tore up Dallas 9-93 in his start in 2015

 

But the next week was 24-28 against the Jets

 

He was great last year tho

 

I never said anything about starts.....no idea where you came up with that nonsense.

 

After the embarrassment in the second half of his revenge game against the Eagles in 2015.........McCoy came into the Washington game with his tail between his legs and was awful early in the game before tearing up his knee.

 

From that point on Karlos and MG produced big numbers and long TD runs on the ground and the team played much better.

 

Starts mean sh*t......McCoy was effectively the starter in both NE games....one of which you call a "start" for Karlos .....McCoy played the whole game and got most of the snaps (including dropping a perfectly thrown pass in the end zone).

 

The second Jets game in 2015 was an outlier against a great run defense that was also LOADING the box against the run after getting beaten by RB's in the first meeting(McCoy yardage and Karlos long TD pass).

 

In that previous game much attention was given to Sammy Watkins......who was limited to 3 catches for 14 yards by Revis. In the second game the added emphasis at the LOS allowed Tyrod and Watkins to have a field day against Revis.......11 for 136........at the time, a very rare thing to see.

 

Like I said......here is the deal with the Bills run offense.......without Tyrod keeping defensive fronts in contain mode......the Bills OL could not stop penetration from good DL/LB's. Penetration in the backfield is the death of both Shady and MG as runners........the reason for their UNBELIEVABLE ypc averages last year was the room they had PRIOR to contact. That's why the run game was utterly useless in the finale this year......MG and Shady were being tackled in the backfield because nobody respected EJ Manuel......Shady suffered a knee injury and had to leave the game.

 

They all benefit from playing together.....but these backs need Tyrod to produce so far above their actual level MORE than he needs them. The relative interchangeability of the RB's backs this up.

[Buffalo716]

I never said anything about starts.....no idea where you came up with that nonsense.

 

After the embarrassment in the second half of his revenge game against the Eagles in 2015.........McCoy came into the Washington game with his tail between his legs and was awful early in the game before tearing up his knee.

 

From that point on Karlos and MG produced big numbers and long TD runs on the ground and the team played much better.

 

Starts mean sh*t......McCoy was effectively the starter in both NE games....one of which you call a "start" for Karlos .....McCoy played the whole game and got most of the snaps (including dropping a perfectly thrown pass in the end zone).

 

The second Jets game in 2015 was an outlier against a great run defense that was also LOADING the box against the run after getting beaten by RB's in the first meeting(McCoy yardage and Karlos long TD pass).

 

In that previous game much attention was given to Sammy Watkins......who was limited to 3 catches for 14 yards by Revis. In the second game the added emphasis at the LOS allowed Tyrod and Watkins to have a field day against Revis.......11 for 136........at the time, a very rare thing to see.

 

Like I said......here is the deal with the Bills run offense.......without Tyrod keeping defensive fronts in contain mode......the Bills OL could not stop penetration from good DL/LB's. Penetration in the backfield is the death of both Shady and MG as runners........the reason for their UNBELIEVABLE ypc averages last year was the room they had PRIOR to contact. That's why the run game was utterly useless in the finale this year......MG and Shady were being tackled in the backfield because nobody respected EJ Manuel......Shady suffered a knee injury and had to leave the game.

 

They all benefit from playing together.....but these backs need Tyrod to produce so far above their actual level MORE than he needs them. The relative interchangeability of the RB's backs this up.

 

Dude I was talking to someone else and you jumped in

 

He asked me about Karlos's starts from 2015 and how we couldn't run against Pitt or Jets the last game in 2015

 

And that's a fact that we couldn't

 

And you used my point.. a super stacked box.. I said throwing would open it up

 

FYI NFL.com lists the pats game as a start for Karlos hence why I used it

Edited March 12, 2017 by Buffalo716

[Augie]

I thought we were cutting Shady???

I read that somewhere, there's a "source".

[BuffAlone]

Neither do linemen LBs DBs.....

oh,its common practice to pull your Lb's and DBs early in the fourth when we either are way up,or way down on the scoreboard? Id disagree with that. Thats normally reserved for skill players,like QB,RB,Etc.But anyway,whats the point youre trying to make? The discussion arose concerning RB....and particularly Shady's durability past 10 games Edited March 12, 2017 by BuffAlone

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

not very many rb's play more than 10 games "completely healthy".in fact, I doubt ANY do. Kind of a heads I win,tails you lose wager

 

....it's a helluva grind.......Shaun Alexander, Larry Johnson, Jamal Anderson, etc all took a beating........Sanders was smart and got out after 10 years....look at the great Earl Campbell, barely shuffling along at age 61..........