BADOLBILZ Posted March 11, 2017 Posted March 11, 2017 Well, yeah, you're right about what you said. It's done by radar. There is also a margin for error with both measurements, I believe. More of what I was getting at was that it's not a terminal velocity measurement or a release point one. It's measured at 30 yards so it's only a sign of what velocity they generate at a certain fixed point. Not every throw is travelling that far in the air so it's not really a damning thing in itself. It can be for deep passing but it's not exactly a death nail measurement and arm strength can be worked on through physical and technical maturation. If it's all done the same it doesn't really matter........it's all relative. In major league baseball the ball typical fastball thrown goes 90-100 mph so 60 mph seems measurable by sand dial by comparison.........it's also why that stat isn't mentioned much in football.......it seems a lot slower than the ball appears to move on television.
Blokestradamus Posted March 11, 2017 Posted March 11, 2017 Maybe so, but the numbers still tell a pretty bleak story for the sub-54 MPH group. It's a piece in the puzzle. Of all the QB's invited to the Combine in any given year, there's probably 10-15 guys depending on class. Odds are that only a couple of them are actually talented enough to play in the NFL. The failure rate is going to be high by nature. I don't think there's enough correlation between a failure to meet the threshold and failure to succeed in the NFL to definitely rule someone out on a few particular throws on one given day.
jr1 Posted March 11, 2017 Posted March 11, 2017 It's a checkdown league why bother even measuring this. 18 rb had 40 catches or more this season
Blokestradamus Posted March 11, 2017 Posted March 11, 2017 If it's all done the same it doesn't really matter........it's all relative. In major league baseball the ball typical fastball thrown goes 90-100 mph so 60 mph seems measurable by sand dial by comparison.........it's also why that stat isn't mentioned much in football.......it seems a lot slower than the ball appears to move on television. I think I'd probably like to see it measured like the 40-yard dash. Incremental points at say 15, 30, 40, 50 yards. The comparison I saw was Cody Kessler vs Cam Newton. At 30 yards, they measured quite similar and that almost looks like a false reading. Push that to 40 or 50 yards, you'd start to see a real staggering between those with and those without.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted March 11, 2017 Posted March 11, 2017 (edited) I think I'd probably like to see it measured like the 40-yard dash. Incremental points at say 15, 30, 40, 50 yards. The comparison I saw was Cody Kessler vs Cam Newton. At 30 yards, they measured quite similar and that almost looks like a false reading. Push that to 40 or 50 yards, you'd start to see a real staggering between those with and those without. ....the 40 is purely one of the most asinine measurements out there....you can count on ONE finger how many times someone gets to run unimpeded for 40 yds in a straight line during the "real deal"...rates right up there with the long jump......" sorry son, but despite catching 137 balls for 1,937 yards and 22 touchdowns in your senior year, your combine measurable in the long jump sucked"...."we are not interested".... Edited March 11, 2017 by OldTimeAFLGuy
K-9 Posted March 12, 2017 Posted March 12, 2017 ....the 40 is purely one of the most asinine measurements out there....you can count on ONE finger how many times someone gets to run unimpeded for 40 yds in a straight line during the "real deal"...rates right up there with the long jump......" sorry son, but despite catching 137 balls for 1,937 yards and 22 touchdowns in your senior year, your combine measurable in the long jump sucked"...."we are not interested".... The 40 is useful as a gauge of an athlete's explosion over a certain duration; explosive endurance if you will. Certain performance indicators within that duration also measure certain other potentials, like the split times for instance. While your point is true about the frequency of times a player actually runs a full 40 yard sprint in a game, the test isn't administered for that reason.
Blokestradamus Posted March 12, 2017 Posted March 12, 2017 The 40 is useful as a gauge of an athlete's explosion over a certain duration; explosive endurance if you will. Certain performance indicators within that duration also measure certain other potentials, like the split times for instance. While your point is true about the frequency of times a player actually runs a full 40 yard sprint in a game, the test isn't administered for that reason. Spot on. Every team has a different threshold for any given test for any given position. Tests are administered to give a baseline level of speed, power, explosion, agility. Justis Mosqueda has written a few things on Ted Thompson's tendencies in Green Bay, particularly for OL recruitment. Myself and @RDotDeuce have looked into some of the baselines for Sean McDermott's defense and you can notice trends based off the collected data. Some might not like it but teams measure this stuff for a reason.
Beef Jerky Posted March 12, 2017 Posted March 12, 2017 Can someone give me a breakdown of MPH and Wonderlic together? Ohh yeah and I need hand size... No tiny hands here... Hahaha when I typed "tiny hands" the next word to come up in my phone was Glennon for a suggestion.
Blokestradamus Posted March 12, 2017 Posted March 12, 2017 Can someone give me a breakdown of MPH and Wonderlic together? Ohh yeah and I need hand size... No tiny hands here... Hahaha when I typed "tiny hands" the next word to come up in my phone was Glennon for a suggestion. Joe Marino logged everything from the Combine for FanRag, including hand size https://www.fanragsports.com/nfl/nfl-scouting-combine-2017-player-measurement-tracker/
Beef Jerky Posted March 12, 2017 Posted March 12, 2017 Joe Marino logged everything from the Combine for FanRag, including hand size https://www.fanragsports.com/nfl/nfl-scouting-combine-2017-player-measurement-tracker/ You are the best.
BobbyC81 Posted March 12, 2017 Posted March 12, 2017 It's not the only thing to look at. But if you look at the numbers almost no QB in the NFL has been good that was below 55. I wonder if the 1QB <=53 that was a long term QB was Chad Pennington? Anyone remember if he made a Pro Bowl?
Blokestradamus Posted March 12, 2017 Posted March 12, 2017 You are the best. No Wonderlic on there but everything else you could dream of. My boy Sefo got buckets.
K-9 Posted March 12, 2017 Posted March 12, 2017 Spot on. Every team has a different threshold for any given test for any given position. Tests are administered to give a baseline level of speed, power, explosion, agility. Justis Mosqueda has written a few things on Ted Thompson's tendencies in Green Bay, particularly for OL recruitment. Myself and @RDotDeuce have looked into some of the baselines for Sean McDermott's defense and you can notice trends based off the collected data. Some might not like it but teams measure this stuff for a reason. By any chance, do you recall the article from a few years back by a someone who compiled metrics from the combine used to predict success as an edge pass rusher in the NFL? I can't find it anywhere, but that guy was very accurate. Said Hughes was a can't miss pass rusher based on his combination of combine results.
Blokestradamus Posted March 12, 2017 Posted March 12, 2017 (edited) By any chance, do you recall the article from a few years back by a someone who compiled metrics from the combine used to predict success as an edge pass rusher in the NFL? I can't find it anywhere, but that guy was very accurate. Said Hughes was a can't miss pass rusher based on his combination of combine results. That was Justis, if I understand you correctly. Force Players ring a bell? From last year - http://playmakermentality.com/2016-force-players Edited March 12, 2017 by Blokestradamus
K-9 Posted March 12, 2017 Posted March 12, 2017 That was Justis, if I understand you correctly. Force Players ring a bell? From last year - http://playmakermentality.com/2016-force-players I think that's the guy. The article I'm thinking about was written during Hughes' draft year, though. Perhaps he's refined his "force players" lists over the years. Regardless, the predictive ability of these metrics is interesting.
Blokestradamus Posted March 12, 2017 Posted March 12, 2017 (edited) I think that's the guy. The article I'm thinking about was written during Hughes' draft year, though. Perhaps he's refined his "force players" lists over the years. Regardless, the predictive ability of these metrics is interesting. I had a look and I couldn't find anything of his from Jerry's draft class. I follow him on Twitter so I could ask. I can't remember when he adopted the Force Players name. He also has an active spreadsheet grading the 2017 class. I trust my own eyes but if Justis talks pass rushers, I listen. Edited March 12, 2017 by Blokestradamus
Beef Jerky Posted March 12, 2017 Posted March 12, 2017 I wonder if the 1QB <=53 that was a long term QB was Chad Pennington? Anyone remember if he made a Pro Bowl? Chad was freaking accurate, he knew exactly where to put the ball... Sadly his arm fell off at the shoulder.
BuffaloBillsMagic1 Posted March 12, 2017 Posted March 12, 2017 I wonder what velocity Dan Fouts had or Tebow
K-9 Posted March 12, 2017 Posted March 12, 2017 I had a look and I couldn't find anything of his from Jerry's draft class. I follow him on Twitter so I could ask. I can't remember when he adopted the Force Players name. He also has an active spreadsheet grading the 2017 class. I trust my own eyes but if Justis talks pass rushers, I listen. Thanks for checking. I'll be sure to give his articles a read.
BuffaloSol Posted March 12, 2017 Posted March 12, 2017 ....Marangi???..OR...was it Hamdan???.................. Lol, it was Logan Thomas.
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