May Day 10 Posted March 10, 2017 Posted March 10, 2017 Can we be totally honest here? We could go 0-16 and the fans would still flock to the stadium. I have Season Tix, and I would absolutely renew go to the same number of games (usually 6 and skip the meaningless frigid December/Holiday ones).
apuszczalowski Posted March 10, 2017 Posted March 10, 2017 So far the browns have shown all they can do is gut a franchise already void of talent and dig themselves to a level below rock bottom to collect draft picks. There have been no results of theirs so far to show they are any better as they were when they started. Yet everyone wants to use them as a benchmark or blueprints of how to rebuild. The NFL is a very tough league to have any consistent success in. How many teams aside from a hand ful at the top go from looking like a good teN one year to drafting near the top the next year
Chuck Wagon Posted March 10, 2017 Posted March 10, 2017 So far the browns have shown all they can do is gut a franchise already void of talent and dig themselves to a level below rock bottom to collect draft picks. There have been no results of theirs so far to show they are any better as they were when they started. Yet everyone wants to use them as a benchmark or blueprints of how to rebuild. The NFL is a very tough league to have any consistent success in. How many teams aside from a hand ful at the top go from looking like a good teN one year to drafting near the top the next year In one year the Browns have accumulated a draft stockpile well beyond anything the NFL has seen since perhaps the Hershal Walker trade, or the Ricky Williams trade. They've used their stockpile of cap space (as well as the talent they already had) to build 4/5ths of what should be a very good offensive line, they have the basis for a good receiving corps, and adding Garrett as well as the Collins move last year puts them in position to have a strong front 7 defensively. The simple truth is this organization likely would be in MUCH better shape long term if they rolled all our cap space over this offseason, accumulated the comp picks from letting Gilmore / Woods / Brown / Goodwin / Alexander etc walk and traded any of Shady, Graham, Kyle, Preston Brown, Richie, Wood etc that would have value, before rolling pick #10 back to accumulate as much future draft capital we could. We'd very likely be very bad this year, but the basis of a foundation is there with Sammy / Glenn / Miller / Dareus / Lawson / Hughes / Ragland / Darby and a few of the younger guys we don't know much about yet that it wouldn't take long to get back into our current position only with a MUCH brighter outlook on our future, a full season of seeing if we can find any gems out of later round picks / UDFAs, perhaps Darnold to really build around, a mountain of cap space and a pile of draft picks. However, we do not have that long term outlook as we keep sacrificing future value to push the 8th or 9th most talented team in the AFC into one of the two wild card spots. How anyone thinks that's the best long term move for this franchise is beyond me.
SF Bills Fan Posted March 10, 2017 Posted March 10, 2017 The schedule is brutal next year. I bet we get 3-4 wins at best.
zow2 Posted March 10, 2017 Posted March 10, 2017 It's a nice strategy for the Browns to tank and accumulate all these picks. We'll see. Their results will definitely be studied by other clubs. The tank is risky. The players they draft are not guaranteed to pan out. The losing strategy to get better scares away free agents...who would rather sign with clubs that are trying to win now. I just don't think you ultimately win by tanking in the NFL. Hitting on a QB is obviously the biggest thing, good coaching and a culture of winning rules. Personally, I'm a bit older now and I prefer to stack as many good players on my team as I can, and keep trying to win every year. I like Tyrod and really hope he blows people away in 2017.
Chuck Wagon Posted March 10, 2017 Posted March 10, 2017 The schedule is brutal next year. I bet we get 3-4 wins at best. Right, so we are pushing all in on a 7 or 8 win team at best, 9 or 10 if EVERYTHING breaks right. We've been pushing all in for nearly half a decade now and the bottom of our roster is really showing the results. Injuries are inevitable in this game. It's frankly unacceptable to enter an offseason with 20-25 roster spots needing to be filled AND be cap restricted while doing it. No well run organization would allow themselves to get to that point. Just one year of having an accurate assessment of where we stand could set us up dramatically better for the future moving forward.
BillsVet Posted March 10, 2017 Posted March 10, 2017 There isn't another franchise in the NFL that's toed the mediocre line for as long as Buffalo has. They've won between 6 and 9 games each of the past 6 seasons despite a change in ownership, new GM's, HC's, QB's, high draft picks, big UFA spending, scheme changes, et al. And, 14 out of the last 17 seasons they've been in the 6 to 9 win range. For as bad as Cleveland's been, they're in the second year of a true rebuild. The Bills meanwhile continue to avoid at all costs a rebuild in hopes what they've been trying will eventually work. OTOH, Cleveland totally revamped their leadership, took a new approach to talent acquisition, and at least have a path. I'm not sure what the Bills are doing except hiring new coaches and hoping bridge QB's suddenly can play.
BuffaloBud420 Posted March 10, 2017 Author Posted March 10, 2017 So far the browns have shown all they can do is gut a franchise already void of talent and dig themselves to a level below rock bottom to collect draft picks. There have been no results of theirs so far to show they are any better as they were when they started. Yet everyone wants to use them as a benchmark or blueprints of how to rebuild. The NFL is a very tough league to have any consistent success in. How many teams aside from a hand ful at the top go from looking like a good teN one year to drafting near the top the next year Raiders?
Chuck Wagon Posted March 10, 2017 Posted March 10, 2017 There isn't another franchise in the NFL that's toed the mediocre line for as long as Buffalo has. They've won between 6 and 9 games each of the past 6 seasons despite a change in ownership, new GM's, HC's, QB's, high draft picks, big UFA spending, scheme changes, et al. And, 14 out of the last 17 seasons they've been in the 6 to 9 win range. For as bad as Cleveland's been, they're in the second year of a true rebuild. The Bills meanwhile continue to avoid at all costs a rebuild in hopes what they've been trying will eventually work. OTOH, Cleveland totally revamped their leadership, took a new approach to talent acquisition, and at least have a path. I'm not sure what the Bills are doing except hiring new coaches and hoping bridge QB's suddenly can play. I think the direction of the Bills is clear, Brandon and Whaley want to keep cashing those checks. I do think we'll see a complete overhaul very soon, especially if what the Browns are doing actually works, Pegula might be new to the game, but he's not going to put up with the same results much longer. I wouldn't expect a total rebuild is something Whaley would be around to oversee.
rant_and_go Posted March 10, 2017 Posted March 10, 2017 In one year the Browns have accumulated a draft stockpile well beyond anything the NFL has seen since perhaps the Hershal Walker trade, or the Ricky Williams trade. They've used their stockpile of cap space (as well as the talent they already had) to build 4/5ths of what should be a very good offensive line, they have the basis for a good receiving corps, and adding Garrett as well as the Collins move last year puts them in position to have a strong front 7 defensively. The simple truth is this organization likely would be in MUCH better shape long term if they rolled all our cap space over this offseason, accumulated the comp picks from letting Gilmore / Woods / Brown / Goodwin / Alexander etc walk and traded any of Shady, Graham, Kyle, Preston Brown, Richie, Wood etc that would have value, before rolling pick #10 back to accumulate as much future draft capital we could. We'd very likely be very bad this year, but the basis of a foundation is there with Sammy / Glenn / Miller / Dareus / Lawson / Hughes / Ragland / Darby and a few of the younger guys we don't know much about yet that it wouldn't take long to get back into our current position only with a MUCH brighter outlook on our future, a full season of seeing if we can find any gems out of later round picks / UDFAs, perhaps Darnold to really build around, a mountain of cap space and a pile of draft picks. However, we do not have that long term outlook as we keep sacrificing future value to push the 8th or 9th most talented team in the AFC into one of the two wild card spots. How anyone thinks that's the best long term move for this franchise is beyond me. The Browns have done this multiple times in the past 20 years. Draft picks really are meaningless compared with leadership. Owner is the biggest. Next up is the head coach, then the front office, then a very distant is the QB who sees the field. Really not that hard to win from that scenario. Dump garbage on the rest of the league and change the rules.
Chuck Wagon Posted March 10, 2017 Posted March 10, 2017 Raiders? Thats what gets me about these Browns doubters. The Browns are doing almost exactly what the Raiders did, only to an extreme the Raiders didn't quite reach. When McKenzie took over he flushed all the bad contracts out of Oakland in one offseason, completely reset their cap, moved down in the Dion Jordan draft to accumulate draft assets, spent heavily in FA to build an offensive line, landed a franchise pass rusher and a franchise QB in the same draft haul and are now the next "it" team. People don't realize the Browns aren't reinventing the game, they are taking what Oakland did to finally reverse the cycle only built even more draft capital to rebuild on. There were plenty of people who made fun of Oakland's process and many of the same people who think the Browns are dumb while they continue to blindly support our carousel of mediocrity.
May Day 10 Posted March 10, 2017 Posted March 10, 2017 Thats what gets me about these Browns doubters. The Browns are doing almost exactly what the Raiders did, only to an extreme the Raiders didn't quite reach. When McKenzie took over he flushed all the bad contracts out of Oakland in one offseason, completely reset their cap, moved down in the Dion Jordan draft to accumulate draft assets, spent heavily in FA to build an offensive line, landed a franchise pass rusher and a franchise QB in the same draft haul and are now the next "it" team. People don't realize the Browns aren't reinventing the game, they are taking what Oakland did to finally reverse the cycle only built even more draft capital to rebuild on. There were plenty of people who made fun of Oakland's process and many of the same people who think the Browns are dumb while they continue to blindly support our carousel of mediocrity. The Titans as well
PromoTheRobot Posted March 10, 2017 Posted March 10, 2017 I was listening to WGR. Schopp and the Bulldog had a guest. Forget his name. The topic came up about another mediocre year (7-9, 8-8) could keep this team from getting one of the big 3 QBs 2018. Darnold, Rosen and Allen. Most people would probably project us to have around a 7-9 record. Give or take a few. That would be devastating. These sub par years have kept us from guys like Winston, Mariota, Wentz, Ryan etc. We would probably be better off now if we had a couple real bad years. With that said, we now have to spend to cap and give Tyrod all the help possible. If we don't and miss the playoffs again and miss out on one of these guys. We could looking at the drought continuing for even longer. McCoy is at the end of his prime, Watkins contract is coming up. Let's not ride the fence. Go all out. I stand by my statement. Buffalo fans have a fetish for losing.
Chuck Wagon Posted March 10, 2017 Posted March 10, 2017 The Titans as well Another great example. A "rebuild" isn't a 5 year process. But it is a commitment to a path we haven't showing a willingness to walk down.
ddaryl Posted March 10, 2017 Posted March 10, 2017 Rex was a horrible coach, absolutely terrible... I really don't know what to expect form the bills this season. All outcomes have a possibility. McDermott and his systems / game planning will be the determining factor and nobody can guess that right now. Talent wise I see us being no worse than last year after the draft / FA...
HT02 Posted March 10, 2017 Posted March 10, 2017 honestly, at this point, what difference does it make? this year will be mediocre. the year after that will be mediocre. and eventually after enough of those years, maybe this year or the next, one won't be mediocre. My sentiments exactly
zow2 Posted March 10, 2017 Posted March 10, 2017 There isn't another franchise in the NFL that's toed the mediocre line for as long as Buffalo has. They've won between 6 and 9 games each of the past 6 seasons despite a change in ownership, new GM's, HC's, QB's, high draft picks, big UFA spending, scheme changes, et al. And, 14 out of the last 17 seasons they've been in the 6 to 9 win range. For as bad as Cleveland's been, they're in the second year of a true rebuild. The Bills meanwhile continue to avoid at all costs a rebuild in hopes what they've been trying will eventually work. OTOH, Cleveland totally revamped their leadership, took a new approach to talent acquisition, and at least have a path. I'm not sure what the Bills are doing except hiring new coaches and hoping bridge QB's suddenly can play. This is going to be the Browns 3rd season of a complete rebuild and they've done nothing on the field yet. Since they went 10-6 in 2007 behind that great QB Derek Anderson, they have nine straight years of 4-5 win seasons and bottoming out these past two years. Yeah it's great to have all these draft picks and selling "hope" to the fans and sports broadcasters...but they haven't done anything! Did Atlanta, Carolina, Detroit, Miami, Dallas, Denver..etc... do complete tear-downs? No, all these other teams kept kicking the can,,brought in some good players, hit on some draft picks and got better. I want to sign as many good players as we can and hey, maybe get lucky one year with fewer injuries and some great draft picks/ FA pickups.
Chuck Wagon Posted March 10, 2017 Posted March 10, 2017 (edited) This is going to be the Browns 3rd season of a complete rebuild and they've done nothing on the field yet. Since they went 10-6 in 2007 behind that great QB Derek Anderson, they have nine straight years of 4-5 win seasons and bottoming out these past two years. Yeah it's great to have all these draft picks and selling "hope" to the fans and sports broadcasters...but they haven't done anything! Did Atlanta, Carolina, Detroit, Miami, Dallas, Denver..etc... do complete tear-downs? No, all these other teams kept kicking the can,,brought in some good players, hit on some draft picks and got better. I want to sign as many good players as we can and hey, maybe get lucky one year with fewer injuries and some great draft picks/ FA pickups. 1) Cleveland was 7-9 in 2014, this is year 2 of their current regime's tear down. Whaley is essentially an extension of Nix, who along with Brandon have been in control of this organization for 8 years now. 2) Atlanta, Carolina, Detroit all bottomed out and drafted franchise QBs in the first 3 picks of drafts. 3) Dallas bottomed out 2 years ago, then rode a rookie RB and a rookie QB back to the playoffs 4) Denver was the second worst team in football (the year the Panthers were the worst) and took Von Miller, who has been their cornerstone player, right before we got Dareus (in a year we could have stayed at the bottom and gotten Cam but we had some pointless feel good wins). 5) Miami has picked near the top of the draft several times So in summation, literally every single one of your examples of teams who "haven't done complete tear downs" have picked higher in the draft than us at some point in the past 6 years. Edited March 10, 2017 by Chuck Wagon
BillsVet Posted March 10, 2017 Posted March 10, 2017 I think the direction of the Bills is clear, Brandon and Whaley want to keep cashing those checks. I do think we'll see a complete overhaul very soon, especially if what the Browns are doing actually works, Pegula might be new to the game, but he's not going to put up with the same results much longer. I wouldn't expect a total rebuild is something Whaley would be around to oversee. I have a feeling Whaley played his last card undermining RR who clearly wasn't as good as his mouth. This is going to be the Browns 3rd season of a complete rebuild and they've done nothing on the field yet. Since they went 10-6 in 2007 behind that great QB Derek Anderson, they have nine straight years of 4-5 win seasons and bottoming out these past two years. Yeah it's great to have all these draft picks and selling "hope" to the fans and sports broadcasters...but they haven't done anything! Did Atlanta, Carolina, Detroit, Miami, Dallas, Denver..etc... do complete tear-downs? No, all these other teams kept kicking the can,,brought in some good players, hit on some draft picks and got better. I want to sign as many good players as we can and hey, maybe get lucky one year with fewer injuries and some great draft picks/ FA pickups. Tell me how the Bills current method is working. How many new HC's (now 4 since 2010) have been able to win with the current front office?
Chandler#81 Posted March 10, 2017 Posted March 10, 2017 There isn't another franchise in the NFL that's toed the mediocre line for as long as Buffalo has. They've won between 6 and 9 games each of the past 6 seasons despite a change in ownership, new GM's, HC's, QB's, high draft picks, big UFA spending, scheme changes, et al. And, 14 out of the last 17 seasons they've been in the 6 to 9 win range. For as bad as Cleveland's been, they're in the second year of a true rebuild. The Bills meanwhile continue to avoid at all costs a rebuild in hopes what they've been trying will eventually work. OTOH, Cleveland totally revamped their leadership, took a new approach to talent acquisition, and at least have a path. I'm not sure what the Bills are doing except hiring new coaches and hoping bridge QB's suddenly can play. Ouch. Thanks, BV. Now I need an anti-depressant. I'd argue any word in your post -if I could..
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