thebandit27 Posted March 10, 2017 Posted March 10, 2017 You don't pay a guy like Glenn to then move over too RT. Plus, I doubt he would move over without being really pissed. He is our LT and will stay there. Why do some folks get sooooooooooo hung up on the distinction between sides? He's getting paid as a LT; he will not give one single solitary rip about moving over for one season. He's a LT, and if he ever hits the open market again, he'll be paid like a LT. That part of the case closed. If he moves, it will be expressly because he has the versatility to play either side, and the other guy does not. There's zero chance he's going to say "you know what? I'm not moving because I'm being paid $13.5M per year".
Best Player Available Posted March 10, 2017 Posted March 10, 2017 Why do some folks get sooooooooooo hung up on the distinction between sides? He's getting paid as a LT; he will not give one single solitary rip about moving over for one season. He's a LT, and if he ever hits the open market again, he'll be paid like a LT. That part of the case closed. If he moves, it will be expressly because he has the versatility to play either side, and the other guy does not. There's zero chance he's going to say "you know what? I'm not moving because I'm being paid $13.5M per year". Well if the "other" guy cannot play the right side. Because of knee problems or whatever. He has little value to a depth starved team. The fact that the LT position includes covering the blind side. Which our LT seems to be fairly competent at it. I would keep him where we paid him for. His contract was huge. I doubt anyone at the time of signing thought Cordy would be a good swing tackle.
thebandit27 Posted March 10, 2017 Posted March 10, 2017 Well if the "other" guy cannot play the right side. Because of knee problems or whatever. He has little value to a depth starved team. The fact that the LT position includes covering the blind side. Which our LT seems to be fairly competent at it. I would keep him where we paid him for. His contract was huge. I doubt anyone at the time of signing thought Cordy would be a good swing tackle. You are wildly missing the point here. This is about the most cost-effective solution for getting your two best tackles (and 5 best OLmen) on the field for the 2017 season. If you have a guy that can play either side (which I'm assuming at this point is Glenn) and a guy that can only play one side effectively, then it's a no-brainer. If you believe that the OL is going to be better with Kouandjio at LT and Glenn at RT then it would with Glenn at LT and, say, some street FA at RT, then you do what's best for the team. If your franchise LT is upset at having to be the highest-paid OT in the NFL even though he's playing the "non-premium" side, well, assuage his worries by assuring him that he'll be moved back to his "big money" position in 2018. I really cannot understand why this is so difficult to grasp.
Best Player Available Posted March 10, 2017 Posted March 10, 2017 You are wildly missing the point here. This is about the most cost-effective solution for getting your two best tackles (and 5 best OLmen) on the field for the 2017 season. If you have a guy that can play either side (which I'm assuming at this point is Glenn) and a guy that can only play one side effectively, then it's a no-brainer. If you believe that the OL is going to be better with Kouandjio at LT and Glenn at RT then it would with Glenn at LT and, say, some street FA at RT, then you do what's best for the team. If your franchise LT is upset at having to be the highest-paid OT in the NFL even though he's playing the "non-premium" side, well, assuage his worries by assuring him that he'll be moved back to his "big money" position in 2018. I really cannot understand why this is so difficult to grasp. I understand the points you're making. I don't really agree on this particular situation. Some,claim LT is the second most important position on offense. Glenn is suitable, not a monster but good. so if he is moved and IMOa less capable replacement takes over the LT spot. How are we improving O-line play. Myself I would look hard in FA and the draft ( which supposedly has a week tackle class). I don't think this is a solution for a 16 game season.
thebandit27 Posted March 10, 2017 Posted March 10, 2017 I understand the points you're making. I don't really agree on this particular situation. Some,claim LT is the second most important position on offense. Glenn is suitable, not a monster but good. so if he is moved and IMOa less capable replacement takes over the LT spot. How are we improving O-line play. Myself I would look hard in FA and the draft ( which supposedly has a week tackle class). I don't think this is a solution for a 16 game season. Sure, I get that. I think Gunner encapsulated the conundrum rather well when he said that the crux of the issue is whether or not you're willing to take a 25% reduction in ability at LT to gain a 75% increase in ability at RT. For me, with this QB and these RBs, I'm plenty willing to do that...mostly because I don't see a FA or draft pick solution that allows me to field an effective starter at RT.
Chuck Wagon Posted March 10, 2017 Posted March 10, 2017 I understand the points you're making. I don't really agree on this particular situation. Some,claim LT is the second most important position on offense. Glenn is suitable, not a monster but good. so if he is moved and IMOa less capable replacement takes over the LT spot. How are we improving O-line play. Myself I would look hard in FA and the draft ( which supposedly has a week tackle class). I don't think this is a solution for a 16 game season. LT - Kujo LG - Richie C - Wood RG - Miller RT - Glenn That is the best offensive line formation we have available at this point in time, FA and draft included, short of Vollmer having something left in the tank to play RT. We will not find a player in the draft who is better than Kujo (at LT) or Cordy at either position, nor should be allocate high resources to try given our other needs. The olinemen flew out of FA, you can't arbitrarily throw out "Look in FA" without giving specific available players we can consider. I really don't care what some people say about the importance of LT, a lot of people in this world are idiots. Kujo has shown himself to be a very passable to good player at LT and Cordy would expect to be the best RT in football. Kujo is a much better LT than RT given his limitations. It's for one season before we can reevaluate our options. The difference between Cordy at RT vs any other available option is huge compared to the difference of Cordy or Kujo at LT, which is not that big, that is how we are improving oline play.
BillsfanAZ Posted March 10, 2017 Posted March 10, 2017 Is it Kujo's injury that is keeping him from being a good RT or is he just better at LT? I would think if an injury is keeping a player from playing his position or if after an injury he is limited in his movement in a certain direction then why is he still on the team? If a RB couldnt cut to the right as good as he cuts to the left, I would think he would be replaced with someone who can do both.
Herb62 Posted March 10, 2017 Posted March 10, 2017 Unless Whaley has said something to the contrary, I'm operating under the assumption we signed Ducasse to play RT. Who is this guy?
metzelaars_lives Posted March 10, 2017 Posted March 10, 2017 The Bills have four solid to excellent starters on their OL. How many teams can say that? The Bills have led the NFL in rushing AND YPC for two consecutive seasons. I know how many other teams can say that. For the millionth time, the Bills' OL is fine. It's a top five unit in the NFL. Let Henderson, CK and the fifth round draft pick this year fight it out. Or do the Glenn-CK switch as some have suggested. Their OL will continue to be just fine.
Bocephuz Posted March 16, 2017 Posted March 16, 2017 Here's a new name I hadn't come across before Austin Pasztor, OT, Browns. Age: 26. PFF GRADE: 84 pass block / 68 Run block __ _ Here's what Walterfootball says Austin Pasztor replaced the Kansas City-bound Mitchell Schwartz and did an OK job. Pasztor is a serviceable starter who pass protects well. He was a clear downgrade from Schwartz, however.Read more at http://walterfootball.com/freeagents2017OT.php#shM5aIGmMGpmeppI.99
TPS Posted March 16, 2017 Posted March 16, 2017 Is it Kujo's injury that is keeping him from being a good RT or is he just better at LT? I would think if an injury is keeping a player from playing his position or if after an injury he is limited in his movement in a certain direction then why is he still on the team? If a RB couldnt cut to the right as good as he cuts to the left, I would think he would be replaced with someone who can do both. While it is fact that he suffered from a left knee injury. I think it's become a myth to say the injury is the reason he's not very good at RT. CK was a young, raw talent coming out, and, in general, he was not very good his first two years--regardless of which side he played. For example, in year 2 he couldn't beat out Henderson or Mills at RT. CK himself said he's simply more comfortable on the left side because that's where he's played his entire football life. It would be good to see him practice at RT through the year, but his hip injury screwed that possibility.
Royale with Cheese Posted March 16, 2017 Posted March 16, 2017 (edited) Sure, I get that. I think Gunner encapsulated the conundrum rather well when he said that the crux of the issue is whether or not you're willing to take a 25% reduction in ability at LT to gain a 75% increase in ability at RT. For me, with this QB and these RBs, I'm plenty willing to do that...mostly because I don't see a FA or draft pick solution that allows me to field an effective starter at RT. How confident are you that Kujo could hold up as the every day LT....16 games? He filled in nicely in spot starts but it's a whole other game to be the full time guy. Of course it's not the same position but I remember John Digorgio (so?) filling in nicely for Poz when he went down but couldn't be counted on for the full season. I think, not sure, but think Keith Ellison filled in for Angelo Crowell pretty well but couldn't cut it as an every day starter. Edited March 16, 2017 by Teeflebees
Bocephuz Posted March 16, 2017 Posted March 16, 2017 How confident are you that Kujo could hold up as the every day LT....16 games? He filled in nicely in spot starts but it's a whole other game to be the full time guy. Of course it's not the same position but I remember John Digorgio (so?) filling in nicely for Poz when he went down but couldn't be counted on for the full season. I think, not sure, but think Keith Ellison filled in for Angelo Crowell pretty well but couldn't cut it as an every day starter. I'd be confident that Kujo would perform at an average level over 16 games at LT. Not as good as Glenn.. but I think he'd be adequate. While the concepts are likely the same on either side of the line... the muscle memory for LT and RT technique is completely opposite. It's been pretty obvious to me that Kujo has looked much more comfortable on the left side than the right.
LABILLBACKER Posted March 16, 2017 Posted March 16, 2017 Sure, I get that. I think Gunner encapsulated the conundrum rather well when he said that the crux of the issue is whether or not you're willing to take a 25% reduction in ability at LT to gain a 75% increase in ability at RT. For me, with this QB and these RBs, I'm plenty willing to do that...mostly because I don't see a FA or draft pick solution that allows me to field an effective starter at RT.
thebandit27 Posted March 16, 2017 Posted March 16, 2017 How confident are you that Kujo could hold up as the every day LT....16 games? He filled in nicely in spot starts but it's a whole other game to be the full time guy. Of course it's not the same position but I remember John Digorgio (so?) filling in nicely for Poz when he went down but couldn't be counted on for the full season. I think, not sure, but think Keith Ellison filled in for Angelo Crowell pretty well but couldn't cut it as an every day starter. Actually, I feel okay about Cyrus at LT (provided that he's fully healthy)
LABILLBACKER Posted March 16, 2017 Posted March 16, 2017 As far as I'm concerned RT is every bit as important as LT. You're more than capable of being sacked from either side. Marquee DE's like JJ Watt move back and forth all the time. The idea of paying your LT more is nonsense. And don't give me the "blindside argument" either. I'd have no problem moving Glenn to RT and Kujo to LT if it improves the OLINE as a whole. It's not like we're asking Cordy to take a cut in pay.
simpleman Posted March 16, 2017 Author Posted March 16, 2017 Here's a new name I hadn't come across before Austin Pasztor, OT, Browns. Age: 26. PFF GRADE: 84 pass block / 68 Run block __ _ Here's what Walterfootball says Austin Pasztor replaced the Kansas City-bound Mitchell Schwartz and did an OK job. Pasztor is a serviceable starter who pass protects well. He was a clear downgrade from Schwartz, however. Read more at http://walterfootball.com/freeagents2017OT.php#shM5aIGmMGpmeppI.99 I Honestly don't know a thing about him. But he appears just by the pff grade to be a major upgrade over Mills. Anyone know anything about him? Playing for the Browns last year, I can't hold a lot against him. The problem would be how much would he cost, I would not overpay for him.. While an upgrade over Mills, he is by no means a star player, but looks like a definite upgrade, especially at pass blocking, almost double the rating.
BarleyNY Posted March 16, 2017 Posted March 16, 2017 (edited) Here's a new name I hadn't come across before Austin Pasztor, OT, Browns. Age: 26. PFF GRADE: 84 pass block / 68 Run block __ _ Here's what Walterfootball says Austin Pasztor replaced the Kansas City-bound Mitchell Schwartz and did an OK job. Pasztor is a serviceable starter who pass protects well. He was a clear downgrade from Schwartz, however. Read more at http://walterfootball.com/freeagents2017OT.php#shM5aIGmMGpmeppI.99 Decent player. He's a better guard than tackle, but he wants to play right tackle which carries a premium on pay. He'd definitely be an upgrade over Mills. Edited March 16, 2017 by BarleyNY
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