Glennon to get $14-$15m / yr

[Santana]

Without Tyrod Whaleys out of a job.... they got lucky with him.

 

This team would've been a 4 to 5 win team without Tyrod the past two years.

Absolutely agree

[34-78-83]

I mean...Levitre, Byrd, Wood, Aaron Williams, Dareus, Glenn, Gilmore, Woods, Alonso, Watkins, Darby, Ragland, and Lawson all seem like pretty good picks to me. But sure, we never hit on 1st or 2nd round picks. And before you say it: whether or not the Bills re-signed guys after their rookie contract does not have any bearing on whether or not they're good players. We let Byrd, Levitre, Gilmore, and Alonso go elsewhere, yes, but it doesn't mean they're bad players or were bad picks.

 

I've said this before: The Bills are NOT terrible at drafting. They're about average. Some fans seem to think you should get 4-5 starting caliber players out of every draft, and that's just not reality. If you get two starters and a rotational guy each draft, you're batting about league average. By that measure, the Bills are average drafters. No better, no worse.

You are very much in line with your username today :-) . logic indeed

[dave mcbride]

 

Jimmy Clausen was a 2nd round pick. He also led the Panthers to the worst record in the NFL.

 

I really dislike Mahomes. He's an improv artist who has no idea how to run a structured NFL offense. His accuracy is suspect, his footwork is abysmal and he rarely steps up into the pocket and usually just retreats to throw off his back foot which never works in the NFL. Additionally he comes from the Air Raid which does nothing to prepare a QB for the NFL (doesn't call plays, doesn't take snaps under centre, only a few route concepts).

There isn't a single example of a team drafting QBs in the 1st round in back to back years in almost 30 years.

 

 

 

This wasn't quite back to back, but the Cowboys took Aikman #1 overall in the 1989 draft and then took Steve Walsh with the #1 overall pick in the 1990 supplemental draft (which they used in summer 1989). It was a brilliant move because they capitalized on Walsh in a huge way. They traded him to the Saints early in the 1990 season in exchange for a first and third round pick in 1991 and a second rounder in 1992 (which could upgrade to a first if Walsh played well for NO). With that third round pick, they selected Erik Williams, one of the greatest o-linemen of his area. They traded the other two picks NE as a package to move up to the number one overall spot to draft Russell Maryland, a very good player who got unfairly criticized because he was #1 overall. He was the best player on the field in the 1996 SB v. Pitt.

[bobobonators]

I still dont understand how in this entire conversation we simply discard Cardale. Everyone wants to cut Tyrod and draft another QB. Cardale was drafted as a project but with potential upside. Why cant we have a bridge to Cardale the next 1-2yrs? Under Tyrod, this offense has broken Bills records for scoring and ranked in the top 10 in scoring over 2 seasons - averaging out to be top 10 in scoring for 2 seasons isnt done with smoke and mirrors. Its not a fluke. Having a Qb that ranks around 20th against the cap but leads an offense that puts up a lot of points sounds like a great freaking bridge to me.

 

You cant on one hand argue that QB is the most important position and at the same time argue that we scored so much IN SPITE of TT. The argument is simply flawed. You dont average to be top 10 in scoring over 2 seasons in NFL with garbage at the QB position. It doesnt happen.

 

Keep TT. Develop Cardale. Improve the defense.

Edited March 6, 2017 by bobobonators

[jeffismagic]

I still dont understand how in this entire conversation we simply discard Cardale. Everyone wants to cut Tyrod and draft another QB. Cardale was drafted as a project but with potential upside. Why cant we have a bridge to Cardale the next 1-2yrs? Under Tyrod, this offense has broken Bills records for scoring and ranked in the top 10 in scoring over 2 seasons - averaging out to be top 10 in scoring for 2 seasons isnt done with smoke and mirrors. Its not a fluke. Having a Qb that ranks around 20th against the cap but leads an offense that puts up a lot of points sounds like a great freaking bridge to me.

 

You cant on one hand argue that QB is the most important position and at the same time argue that we scored so much IN SPITE of TT. The argument is simply flawed. You dont average to be top 10 in scoring over 2 seasons in NFL with garbage at the QB position. It doesnt happen.

 

Keep TT. Develop Cardale. Improve the defense.

 

The Bills created a special unicorn under Greg Roman. It was a heavy run, gadget offense that did score a lot and was very efficient in the red zone(because Bills could run. That offense had an top 3 running back, power offensive line, and a running QB that could throw deep to keep to keep defenses honest.

 

The Tyrod fans want us to believe that is all on Tyrod, he's the man. Yes, in way he was for that system. But those of us who don't want to pick up the option don't want to run a gimmick offense that limits the QB in a QB friendly league. It's not a good way to develop your own QB. It's a way to cover your weakness throwing the ball and if we are weak at throwing the ball why should we pay 40 million for that?

[bobobonators]

 

The Bills created a special unicorn under Greg Roman. It was a heavy run, gadget offense that did score a lot and was very efficient in the red zone(because Bills could run. That offense had an top 3 running back, power offensive line, and a running QB that could throw deep to keep to keep defenses honest.

 

The Tyrod fans want us to believe that is all on Tyrod, he's the man. Yes, in way he was for that system. But those of us who don't want to pick up the option don't want to run a gimmick offense that limits the QB in a QB friendly league. It's not a good way to develop your own QB. It's a way to cover your weakness throwing the ball and if we are weak at throwing the ball why should we pay 40 million for that?

So what you basically said is:

 

Yes, I admit that the offense scored a lot, but they didnt score how I wanted them to score so I want to change it.

 

Why is our offense a "gadget" offense but a pass heavy offense isnt a "gadget" offense? People need to put their subjective views aside and accept the following reality: we scored a lot of points with TT as our QB. And no he wasnt the MAIN reason but he was a substantial cog in the machine. A cog that isnt as easily replaceable as many here believe. As a simple example, since 2015 We had a winning record in games Shady didnt start and we were 0-3 in games TT didnt start.

Edited March 6, 2017 by bobobonators

[BarleyNY]

He's been a starter for only 2 seasons.........and if we had just an average defense last year we would have mage the playoffs

The Bills were 16th in points allowed and 19th in yards allowed. That seems pretty average.

[cd1]

Bills have passed on Derrick Carr, Dak Prescott, Russell Wilson and more.

I get your fear. But we can't just ignore the position every year.

How many other teams passed on those players?

 

When you are a struggling team, you do not neccesarily have the LUXURY to throw away draft picks on QBs every year.

 

The Patriots have mostly have weaknesses to improve on. The BILLS have HOLES to fill. That makes a BIG difference on how you spend the few picks you have.

[GoBills808]

How many other teams passed on those players?

 

When you are a struggling team, you do not neccesarily have the LUXURY to throw away draft picks on QBs every year.

 

The Patriots have mostly have weaknesses to improve on. The BILLS have HOLES to fill. That makes a BIG difference on how you spend the few picks you have.

When you're a struggling team you NEED a QB.

[bobobonators]

The Bills were 16th in points allowed and 19th in yards allowed. That seems pretty average.

Ill quote myself:

 

Since 2015, the Chiefs are 15 - 1 in games where they score 25 points or more.

 

Since 2015, the Bills are 9 - 8 in games where they score 25 points or more.

 

That right there is the difference between 8-8 and playoffs.

 

What do you think the main difference is between those two teams/records is? The defense and coaching.

 

And no, the chiefs dont have an elite defense. So dont start the argument that we need the ravens defense from 2000/2001 in order to be successful with TT.

Edited March 6, 2017 by bobobonators

[cd1]

I still dont understand how in this entire conversation we simply discard Cardale. Everyone wants to cut Tyrod and draft another QB. Cardale was drafted as a project but with potential upside. Why cant we have a bridge to Cardale the next 1-2yrs? Under Tyrod, this offense has broken Bills records for scoring and ranked in the top 10 in scoring over 2 seasons - averaging out to be top 10 in scoring for 2 seasons isnt done with smoke and mirrors. Its not a fluke. Having a Qb that ranks around 20th against the cap but leads an offense that puts up a lot of points sounds like a great freaking bridge to me.

You cant on one hand argue that QB is the most important position and at the same time argue that we scored so much IN SPITE of TT. The argument is simply flawed. You dont average to be top 10 in scoring over 2 seasons in NFL with garbage at the QB position. It doesnt happen.

Keep TT. Develop Cardale. Improve the defense.

Just prior to the final Jets game, Cardale himself said that he "was NOT ready to play".

 

For crying out loud, if a player does not have confidence in himself, why is it that so many of you want to tie your dreams to this kid?

[section122]

So what you basically said is:

 

Yes, I admit that the offense scored a lot, but they didnt score how I wanted them to score so I want to change it.

 

Why is our offense a "gadget" offense but a pass heavy offense isnt a "gadget" offense? People need to put their subjective views aside and accept the following reality: we scored a lot of points with TT as our QB. And no he wasnt the MAIN reason but he was a substantial cog in the machine. A cog that isnt as easily replaceable as many here believe. As a simple example, since 2015 We had a winning record in games Shady didnt start and we were 0-3 in games TT didnt start.

 

Just want to again thank you for saving me so much time posting this off season. So many times I have posts to quote and reply to but see you've handled it already.

 

I want to go back to Thurman and Gunner Bill for a minute.

 

You guys have posted about who cost what and that Tyrod cost 20.5 because you are assuming that he will be cut after 2 years. That is using one standard for Tyrod and not for the rest of the qbs. Are you looking at others possible restructures, being cut, etc... with the nuance you look at the Tyrod deal?

 

You also aren't considering new deals for guys such as Stafford, Brees, Cousins, Bradford, Carr, and maybe even Garropolo that will push his number down further from the top of top paid QBs.

 

I get that neither of you think he is the long term answer and therefore not worth the money. I personally feel the jury is still out. However the money for Tyrod isn't as out of control as many are painting it to be imo. Chase Daniel is making 7 million to sit on the bench!

[bobobonators]

Just prior to the final Jets game, Cardale himself said that he "was NOT ready to play".

 

For crying out loud, if a player does not have confidence in himself, why is it that so many of you want to tie your dreams to this kid?

Im not tying my dreams to Cardale, but at the same time we knew he was a project all along. So treat him as a project and continue to develop him. Dont just discard him completely. We already have a QB who is more than serviceable in the meantime in TT. if TT continues to improve the more games he starts than awesome. If he stays about the same then Cardale has more time to work on his game and possibly show what he can do in 2018.

 

Just want to again thank you for saving me so much time posting this off season. So many times I have posts to quote and reply to but see you've handled it already.

 

I want to go back to Thurman and Gunner Bill for a minute.

 

You guys have posted about who cost what and that Tyrod cost 20.5 because you are assuming that he will be cut after 2 years. That is using one standard for Tyrod and not for the rest of the qbs. Are you looking at others possible restructures, being cut, etc... with the nuance you look at the Tyrod deal?

 

You also aren't considering new deals for guys such as Stafford, Brees, Cousins, Bradford, Carr, and maybe even Garropolo that will push his number down further from the top of top paid QBs.

 

I get that neither of you think he is the long term answer and therefore not worth the money. I personally feel the jury is still out. However the money for Tyrod isn't as out of control as many are painting it to be imo. Chase Daniel is making 7 million to sit on the bench!

Haha. Thanks. Its been a struggle for about 5mo now.

[kota]

I would take Glennon over Taylor in a heartbeat.

[cd1]

When you're a struggling team you NEED a QB.

Go sell that to the Saints.

[GoBills808]

Go sell that to the Saints.

Pretty sure they're good with Brees and a SB.

[section122]

The Bills were 16th in points allowed and 19th in yards allowed. That seems pretty average.

 

Sure if you just look at averages. However let me show you the numbers differently.

 

The Bills gave up 30+ in 5 games.

 

The Bills gave up 3 200+ yard rushers.

 

From Week 7 on the Defense gave up less than 27 points 3 times. The Jaguars, Bengals, and Browns. Every other team scored 27 plus. Only 4 teams in the NFL averaged 27 points for the season.

 

add in bobonators stats and the defense wasn't as average as it appeared.

[Maury Ballstein]

Shouldn't we change the thread title to the Tyrod fanboy thread ?

 

People taking shots at Brees because Tyrod couldn't complete a pass with the top run game setting him up on EZ street all day everyday.

 

 

Gross.

[Wayne Cubed]

Shouldn't we change the thread title to the Tyrod fanboy thread ?

 

People taking shots at Brees because Tyrod couldn't complete a pass with the top run game setting him up on EZ street all day everyday.

 

 

Gross.

At this point any thread discussing any QB devolves into a Tyrod thread.

 

I don't think anyone's mind is going to be changed at this point.

[DriveFor1Outta5]

This still amazes me. I've seem all of these reports of all these "QB gurus" that are former NFL and college QBs holding these camps and the NFL is always struggling to have enough solid starting QBs. Todd Marijuanavich's dad started coaching him as a toddler and he turned into a good college QB who was drafted by the NFL but didn't pan out, mainly because he got into drugs after dealing with his dad but the really good QBs are few and far between.

 

I'd have to say, as compared to tough positions in other sports (pitcher and catcher in baseball, goalie in hockey, point guard in basketball) having 300# guys trying to kill you has a big impact (David Carr, Jim Everett, etc.). Reading defenses, making the right and accurate throw while thinking about the defense coming after you seems to be a difficult task indeed.

Football is just much more complicated than those other sports. This means that guys can't make it based solely on talent. The QB has to be like a coach on the field. The human mind is a very unpredictable entity. With the mind being such an important part of a QB it makes the QB position incredible unpredictable. It's also hard to tell if the mental aspect of a guys game translate from college to the pros.