grinreaper Posted March 5, 2017 Posted March 5, 2017 Still waiting for someone to recommend a whine to go with this meltdown. Sourgrapeia?
B-Man Posted March 5, 2017 Posted March 5, 2017 ."Hey Michelle, get Kim on the line. He's chatting it up with Kanye again." Did he REALLY just order a well done steak with ketchup? . "Hey Joe, you're never gonna believe what he's gonna say about Ted Cruz's dad."
keepthefaith Posted March 5, 2017 Posted March 5, 2017 I totally disagree. If you are accused of something the last thing you do is to start talking. The fifth amendment exists not just as a right but as a sound defense against stupid accusations. Trump made the charge, its his burden to supply the evidence. His justice department knows the truth, its on them. Trump and his campaign were put under surveillance in 2016. That isn't even a question now.
Nanker Posted March 5, 2017 Author Posted March 5, 2017 Now it sounds like they bugged Sessions last year when he was still a Senator. Classy, those Dems. Real classy. And Nixon supposedly approved a break-in at the DNC headquarter at the Watergate complex so they could put bugs in their phones. It's déjà vu all over again Yogi.
Deranged Rhino Posted March 5, 2017 Posted March 5, 2017 Bull crap there is plenty and Trump's financial dealing... what we know about them are enough... in politics follow the money... Clinton's with Saudi's and Trump and the Russians. Common get your head outta the ostrich.. What do we know that isn't speculation coming from unnamed sources citing unnamed methods? ...I'll wait. So... you cannot provide one example of something concrete that proves "we know enough". Gotcha.
Tiberius Posted March 5, 2017 Posted March 5, 2017 Trump and his campaign were put under surveillance in 2016. That isn't even a question now. Probably for good reason. Doesn't mean Obama was involved.
Deranged Rhino Posted March 5, 2017 Posted March 5, 2017 Tgreg, This is from the Intercept, you often source them. Essentially they speculate the same things DC Tom and I believe to be the case: I haven't taken the position, and am not taking the position, that Obama absolutely tapped Trump's phone. I'm all for seeing real evidence on everything surrounding this issue. The lack of evidence is my problem. The position I've taken is that the narrative isn't really Russia influenced the election, but that the Deep State is at war with itself, and because of this parts of the US IC are attempting to undermine our democracy by floating rumor and innuendo without offering any shred of evidence. They're not doing this out of a sense of duty to country or even to party but as a means to save their own skin. It's cowardice wrapped in duplicity... and the corporate media is carrying the water for them as they've done time and time again. If there's evidence that Russia influenced the election, let's see it and I'll happily change my opinion.
B-Man Posted March 5, 2017 Posted March 5, 2017 (edited) Nobody clutches pearls QUITE like Barack Obama. And wow, lots and lots of pearl clutching going on about a wiretap in Trump Tower. It’s like Democrats are shocked we would ever suspect the Obama administration of doing something sneaky or dirty. Oh wait........... IRS. DOJ taps on journalists. THE STREETWISE PROFESSOR: Obama v. Trump: Strictly Correct & Misleading v. Not Strictly Correct But Fundamentally True. I won’t comment in detail on the substance of today’s latest outbreak of our fevered politics: Trump’s accusation that Obama ordered wiretapping of Trump Tower and the Trump campaign. I will just mention one fact that strongly supports the veracity of Trump’s allegation: namely, the very narrow–and lawyerly–“denials” emanating from the Obama camp. Obama and his surrogates – Ben Rhodes – harrumph that Obama could not unilaterally order electronic surveillance. Well, yes, it is the case that Obama did not personally issue the order: the FISA court did so. But even if that is literally correct, it is also true that the FISA court would not unilaterally issue such an order: it would only do so in response to a request from the executive branch. Thus, Obama is clearly implicated even if he did not issue the order. He could have ordered his subordinates to make the request to the court, or could have approved a subordinate’s request to seek an order. Maybe he merely hinted, a la Henry II – “will no one rid me of this turbulent candidate?” (And “turbulent” is a good adjective to apply to Trump.) But regardless, there is no way that such a request to the court in such a fraught and weighty matter would have proceeded without Obama’s acquiescence. I therefore consider that the substance of Trump’s charge–that he was surveilled at behest of Obama has been admitted by the principals. Read the whole thing. WELL, THIS HAS ESCALATED: Tony Shaffer: ObamaGate Wiretapping ‘Soviet-Level Wrongdoing.’ Edited March 5, 2017 by B-Man
keepthefaith Posted March 5, 2017 Posted March 5, 2017 (edited) Probably for good reason. Doesn't mean Obama was involved. He was likely aware and we'll never know the extent of his involvement because his minions do the work. James Clapper, not exactly a Trump supporter said on Meet The Press this morning that they saw no evidence of Collusion between Trump campaign and Russian Meddling. http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/former-dni-james-clapper-i-can-deny-wiretap-trump-tower-n729261 synopsis and comment on NBC reporting: Justice got FISA court order in 2016 to monitor Trump communication for what reason is unclear. Could have been actual suspicion of Russian aid Trump or could have been for political reasons only. Justice/FBI was monitoring email server activity from Trump Tower and possibly looking at phone records and possibly recording some phone conversations of cell phones Over several month period and while Obama still in office, info gathered but multiple sources (then and since) say no evidence of collusion with Russians found Previous point doesn't matter, media and Dems continuing to push Russia story as this is their game plan to create chaos Trump late last week gets intel that FISA court requests made and that surveillance done Trump blows a gasket and sends out tweet with no specifics (no surprise) Obama and Co true to their form parse words and deny the literal meaning of Trumps tweet but won't deny that surveillance requests made and carried out Mark Levin on Fox this AM lays out a pretty compelling case that surveillance was done Meet The Press this AM reporting story obviously written yesterday because it lacks the info Levin had just presented on Fox are still pushing Russian / Trump connection. Schumer (D-Bag) is on and spews more crap about Trump/Russia but when asked if he knows if Trump was under surveillance he answers that "he won't comment on classified information". Clapper later in show says no evidence of collusion found. So the big news from MTP this AM is really that schumer wouldn't answer on Trump being under surveillance (obviously he was) and Clapper says no collusion, yet NBC home page now has headline "No Wiretap on Trump" which technically may be true as it computer surveillance. Shameful reporting as usual from NBC. Edited March 5, 2017 by keepthefaith
Deranged Rhino Posted March 5, 2017 Posted March 5, 2017 He was likely aware and we'll never know the extent of his involvement because his minions do the work. James Clapper, not exactly a Trump supporter said on Meet The Press this morning that they saw no evidence of Collusion between Trump campaign and Russian Meddling. http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/former-dni-james-clapper-i-can-deny-wiretap-trump-tower-n729261 synopsis and comment on NBC reporting: Justice got FISA court order in 2016 to monitor Trump communication for what reason is unclear. Could have been actual suspicion of Russian aid Trump or could have been for political reasons only. Justice/FBI was monitoring email server activity from Trump Tower and possibly looking at phone records and possibly recording some phone conversations of cell phones Over several month period and while Obama still in office, info gathered but multiple sources (then and since) say no evidence of collusion with Russians found Previous point doesn't matter, media and Dems continuing to push Russia story as this is their game plan to create chaos Trump late last week gets intel that FISA court requests made and that surveillance done Trump blows a gasket and sends out tweet with no specifics (no surprise) Obama and Co true to their form parse words and deny the literal meaning of Trumps tweet but won't deny that surveillance requests made and carried out Mark Levin on Fox this AM lays out a pretty compelling case that surveillance was done Meet The Press this AM reporting story obviously written yesterday because it lacks the info Levin had just presented on Fox are still pushing Russian / Trump connection. Schumer (D-Bag) is on and spews more crap about Trump/Russia but when asked if he knows if Trump was under surveillance he answers that "he won't comment on classified information". Clapper later in show says no evidence of collusion found. So the big news from MTP this AM is really that schumer wouldn't answer on Trump being under surveillance (obviously he was) and Clapper says no collusion, yet NBC home page now has headline "No Wiretap on Trump" which technically may be true as it computer surveillance. Shameful reporting as usual from NBC. Clapper, a known liar and perjurer also said the NSA was not collecting information on US citizens. His testimony on any subject should be filtered through the lens that he cannot be trusted: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4vFOax-Zzc
B-Man Posted March 5, 2017 Posted March 5, 2017 "FISA Is Not Law-Enforcement – It’s Not Interference with Justice Department Independence for White House to Ask for FISA Information." The invaluable legal analysis of Andrew M. McCarthy, checking the work of the NYT. FTA: The NYT report makes assertions about the law — "Any request for information from a top White House official about a continuing investigation would be a stunning departure from protocols intended to insulate the F.B.I. from political pressure" — that McCarthy debunks. McCarthy is adamant: [A] FISA investigation is not a “law-enforcement matter” or “case.” A law-enforcement matter is a criminal prosecution. That is the mission in which there should never be any political interference because it involves the strictly legal matter of whether there is evidence that penal statutes have been violated. In such a situation, White House intrusion would be political interference in a proceeding that is essentially judicial in nature, involving the potential removal of liberty from a citizen. McCarthy has great expertise in this area and the NYT should be powerfully embarrassed to botch things this badly — whether the mistakes are from ignorance or from a deliberate attempt to deceive. I'm not an expert in this area, so maybe McCarthy is wrong and the NYT is right. The NYT had better scramble to explain itself if it's right or come clean if it's wrong. FISA has nothing to do with LE, and everything to do with National Security. In theory, FISA can only be invoked again foreign intelligence targets (hence the name) that pose a grave and immediate threat to the homeland. Effectively the DOJ swears that their application is not in pursuit of a criminal matter (thus invoking various bill of rights protections, specifically the 4th). The material gathered is protected at the highest levels, and they are supposed to scrub the tapes of extraneous matters involving US parties. In this case, it appears that the FBI downgraded the material, did not scrub the transcripts and disseminated the material widely, expecting it to leak.
Tiberius Posted March 5, 2017 Posted March 5, 2017 On CNN's "State of the Union" with Jake Tapper, the Florida Republican said he doesn't know where Trump's claim comes from. "But I imagine we're going to learn more about it here over the next few days, one way or the other," Rubio said. "I'm not sure what it is he is talking about," Rubio added. "Perhaps the President has information that is not yet available to us or to the public. And if it's true, obviously we're going to find out very quickly. And if it isn't, then obviously he'll have to explain what he meant by it." Asked if the FBI should clear the matter up, Rubio said that's a "difficult thing." The FBI typically doesn't even acknowledge publicly when an investigation is underway, let alone delve into the details, he noted. "And I know it's a source of deep frustration for a lot of people, not just on this issue, but in other issues in the past," Rubio said He was likely aware and we'll never know the extent of his involvement because his minions do the work. James Clapper, not exactly a Trump supporter said on Meet The Press this morning that they saw no evidence of Collusion between Trump campaign and Russian Meddling. http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/former-dni-james-clapper-i-can-deny-wiretap-trump-tower-n729261 synopsis and comment on NBC reporting: Justice got FISA court order in 2016 to monitor Trump communication for what reason is unclear. Could have been actual suspicion of Russian aid Trump or could have been for political reasons only. Justice/FBI was monitoring email server activity from Trump Tower and possibly looking at phone records and possibly recording some phone conversations of cell phones Over several month period and while Obama still in office, info gathered but multiple sources (then and since) say no evidence of collusion with Russians found Previous point doesn't matter, media and Dems continuing to push Russia story as this is their game plan to create chaos Trump late last week gets intel that FISA court requests made and that surveillance done Trump blows a gasket and sends out tweet with no specifics (no surprise) Obama and Co true to their form parse words and deny the literal meaning of Trumps tweet but won't deny that surveillance requests made and carried out Mark Levin on Fox this AM lays out a pretty compelling case that surveillance was done Meet The Press this AM reporting story obviously written yesterday because it lacks the info Levin had just presented on Fox are still pushing Russian / Trump connection. Schumer (D-Bag) is on and spews more crap about Trump/Russia but when asked if he knows if Trump was under surveillance he answers that "he won't comment on classified information". Clapper later in show says no evidence of collusion found. So the big news from MTP this AM is really that schumer wouldn't answer on Trump being under surveillance (obviously he was) and Clapper says no collusion, yet NBC home page now has headline "No Wiretap on Trump" which technically may be true as it computer surveillance. Shameful reporting as usual from NBC. your synopsis does not match your link at all. Just make it up or is there a source you did not link?
DC Tom Posted March 5, 2017 Posted March 5, 2017 He was likely aware and we'll never know the extent of his involvement because his minions do the work. James Clapper, not exactly a Trump supporter said on Meet The Press this morning that they saw no evidence of Collusion between Trump campaign and Russian Meddling. http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/former-dni-james-clapper-i-can-deny-wiretap-trump-tower-n729261 synopsis and comment on NBC reporting: Justice got FISA court order in 2016 to monitor Trump communication for what reason is unclear. Could have been actual suspicion of Russian aid Trump or could have been for political reasons only. Justice/FBI was monitoring email server activity from Trump Tower and possibly looking at phone records and possibly recording some phone conversations of cell phones Over several month period and while Obama still in office, info gathered but multiple sources (then and since) say no evidence of collusion with Russians found Previous point doesn't matter, media and Dems continuing to push Russia story as this is their game plan to create chaos Trump late last week gets intel that FISA court requests made and that surveillance done Trump blows a gasket and sends out tweet with no specifics (no surprise) Obama and Co true to their form parse words and deny the literal meaning of Trumps tweet but won't deny that surveillance requests made and carried out Mark Levin on Fox this AM lays out a pretty compelling case that surveillance was done Meet The Press this AM reporting story obviously written yesterday because it lacks the info Levin had just presented on Fox are still pushing Russian / Trump connection. Schumer (D-Bag) is on and spews more crap about Trump/Russia but when asked if he knows if Trump was under surveillance he answers that "he won't comment on classified information". Clapper later in show says no evidence of collusion found. So the big news from MTP this AM is really that schumer wouldn't answer on Trump being under surveillance (obviously he was) and Clapper says no collusion, yet NBC home page now has headline "No Wiretap on Trump" which technically may be true as it computer surveillance. Shameful reporting as usual from NBC. Legally, computer surveillance is considered a wire tap. NBC's straight-out lying.
Tiberius Posted March 5, 2017 Posted March 5, 2017 Legally, computer surveillance is considered a wire tap. NBC's straight-out lying. How are they lying?
Deranged Rhino Posted March 5, 2017 Posted March 5, 2017 On CNN's "State of the Union" with Jake Tapper, the Florida Republican said he doesn't know where Trump's claim comes from. Rubio's another one who should be ignored on all matters revolving around the Russian narrative for what it's worth. He has proven to be in the pocket of the same people within the IC pushing this agenda.
DC Tom Posted March 5, 2017 Posted March 5, 2017 How are they lying? [This is an automated response.] Shut up, you dumb !@#$ing monkey. Created by DC Tom-bot, beta version 0.61.
Tiberius Posted March 5, 2017 Posted March 5, 2017 [This is an automated response.] Shut up, you dumb !@#$ing monkey. Created by DC Tom-bot, beta version 0.61. Oh come on Tom, back it up buddy. Ask you to back up a simple little thing and you turn into a two year old. Rubio's another one who should be ignored on all matters revolving around the Russian narrative for what it's worth. He has proven to be in the pocket of the same people within the IC pushing this agenda. Ok, clapper, lying, Rubio lying, NBC lying...
DC Tom Posted March 5, 2017 Posted March 5, 2017 Oh come on Tom, back it up buddy. Ask you to back up a simple little thing and you turn into a two year old. Ok, clapper, lying, Rubio lying, NBC lying... [This is an automated response.] I'm not stupid. Yes, yes you are. Created by DC Tom-bot, beta version 0.61.
Tiberius Posted March 5, 2017 Posted March 5, 2017 (edited) [This is an automated response.] Yes, yes you are. Created by DC Tom-bot, beta version 0.61. Didn't you start all this claiming Trump was just trying to change the subject? Lol, now it's all evil media lying! President Donald Trump owes the public a further explanation of his allegation that former President Barack Obama tapped Trump's phones, said GOP Sen. Ben Sasse on Saturday afternoon. The Nebraska Republican, who opposed both Trump and Hillary Clinton in the president campaign, called the current political atmosphere a "civilization-warping crisis of public trust" after Trump said Obama ordered Trump's phone lines tapped before the election and Obama's spokesman denied it on Saturday. Sasse said if there were taps, it would have been either with a FISA court authorization or without but either way Trump needed to publicly explain his tweeted allegations. "The president today made some very serious allegations, and the informed citizens that a republic requires deserve more information," Sasse said. "If without [an authorization], the President should explain what sort of wiretap it was and how he knows this. It is possible that he was illegally tapped." But Sasse said if there was a legal authorization for a phone tap, then Trump should disclose that application. "If it was with a legal FISA court order, then an application for surveillance exists that the court found credible. The president should ask that this full application regarding surveillance of foreign operatives or operations be made available, ideally to the full public, and at a bare minimum to the U.S. Senate," Sasse said. http://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/ben-sasse-trump-wire-tapping-235685 Edited March 5, 2017 by Tiberius
Deranged Rhino Posted March 5, 2017 Posted March 5, 2017 Oh come on Tom, back it up buddy. Ask you to back up a simple little thing and you turn into a two year old. Ok, clapper, lying, Rubio lying, NBC lying... Clapper perjured himself, as the video above shows. He lied, for years, about the scope of NSA spying in US citizens. Now he is the fountainhead for much, if not all of the "official" IC reports on the Russian issue and you're taking his words at face value without doing your due diligence because what he's saying fits into your political agenda. Rubio has long made it known he's a regime change warrior who went toe to toe with Trump as the defacto face of the deep state in the republican primaries once Jeb withdrew. He has an agenda, it's clear if you go back through his statements during the campaign and his views on foreign policy. These are facts with source able evidence and proof. Unlike everything that's been said about the Russians and Trump.
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