Obama Performed Espionage on Trump prior to election

[North Buffalo]

Ben Rhodes fires back at Trump wiretap claims - CNN

https://apple.news/AfHcUrboGSTWXB5yfy9XLiA

[Deranged Rhino]

No proof Obama did anything. FISO gave FBI a court warrant in October to give counter-intelligence to examine the activities of "U.S. persons" in Donald Trump's campaign ties with Russia. My suspicion is that Obama worked with the FBI to get this done and is smart enough to not directly tie himself to it. I guess he took the birthism thing personally.

 

If there's no proof, why does Valarie Jarrett feel the need to come out and tweet an obvious, unabashed lie?

 

Not defending Trump, but the Obama administration -- which ran on cutting back the surveillance state's powers -- abused that power more than any previous administration and was ruthless in its pursuit of leakers. So when Jarrett comes on Twitter, lying and hoping no one was paying attention for the past 16 years, it makes her and Obama look far shadier than anything the cheeto tweets.

 

 

We know its a lie based on Flynn's resignation.

 

Who needs proof? Trump's already accomplished what he set out to do: he's controlling the media.

 

That too... and yup.

 

What seems to be missing here is the possibility that there could have been illegal wire tapping going on.

 

Bingo. But of course that's by design. The left has been cheering on a soft coup by unelected intelligence officers for the past several months, of course they don't care about subverting our laws or our democracy, so long as they get justice for their election let-down.

 

 

Was listening to the news on the radio this morning, and ALL the coverage was about how the president can't order wiretaps, and doesn't sign warrants for wiretaps because the warrants have to be requested by the Justice department issued by a judge, and how there's an entire legal process that has to be followed to get a wire tap...

 

And I kept thinking exactly what you posted.

 

Yup.

 

His die hard fan base doesn't get this though. All they see is his tweet and his words are gospel. A lot of rational Trump voters just want all this sideshow crap to end and for him to get his agenda through, but he keeps shooting himself in the foot with these stupid tweets. It's just frustrating we have a president in the White House that tweets on impulse and emotion before gathering all the evidence.

 

And the die hards who hate him fail to see how they're playing right into the IC's hands, supporting a soft coup with no evidence just because they don't like how the election turned out. That's not American values... that's fascism.

 

 

Yesterday everyone was talking about Sessions needing to resign.

 

Today, everyone's talking about Trump's tweet.

 

You honestly think Trump didn't know exactly what he was doing, tweeting that?

 

Bingo.

 

Ben Rhodes fires back at Trump wiretap claims - CNN

https://apple.news/AfHcUrboGSTWXB5yfy9XLiA

 

Again, one of the least transparent administrations in history, which broke nearly every campaign promise Obama ran on in regards to illegal surveillance of American citizens, trots out a man with blood on his hands to vouch for the former administration.

 

Obama supporters and Trump haters will lap it up -- because they're too emotional to be rational and look at the situation dispassionately.

 

You're being had.

[IDBillzFan]

Obama was born in Kenya.

 

Thousands of Muslims in New Jersey were celebrating after 9/11.

 

3 million illegal voters in the election.

 

His sleeve must be Yuge to carry all that proof.

 

This thread is redundant with the alternative facts thread.

 

Still waiting for someone to recommend a whine to go with this meltdown.

Edited March 4, 2017 by LABillzFan

[Magox]

Senator Ben Sasse

 

 

"The president today made some very serious allegations, and the informed citizens that a republic requires deserve more information," Sasse said. "If without [an authorization], the President should explain what sort of wiretap it was and how he knows this. It is possible that he was illegally tapped."

 

 

But Sasse said if there was a legal authorization for a phone tap, then Trump should disclose that application.

"If it was with a legal FISA court order, then an application for surveillance exists that the court found credible. The president should ask that this full application regarding surveillance of foreign operatives or operations be made available, ideally to the full public, and at a bare minimum to the U.S. Senate," Sasse said.

 

Of course Trump will do no such thing and allow his Trumpettes to speculate/defend on his behalf.

[Foxx]

Trump tweeted it so it must be true. Another shiny object to try to distract from the Russian scandal. Sad!

lol.

 

you do understand what is happening here, right? the rules have changed somewhat in the dog and pony show. the goal is still the same however, deception/sleight of hand.

 

Trump is merely doing back to them, what they are doing to him. that has to be plain as day to even Stevie Wonder or Ray Charles.

 

the thing that has my attention is that this no holds barred tactic now being employed by the minions means something big is coming down the pike at us. we know that the normal modus operandi to to distract so you don't see what they're really up to. that they have ratcheted it up to the current heights can only mean crash and burn.

[Deranged Rhino]

Senator Ben Sasse

 

 

Of course Trump will do no such thing and allow his Trumpettes to speculate/defend on his behalf.

 

You're not wrong, of course. But ask yourself this:

 

Why is it okay for the CIA and IC to make baseless accusations, with unnamed sources citing unnamed methods specifically to hype a (still unfounded) "Russia influenced the election outcome" narrative, simultaneously undercutting and subverting our democratic process... but it's not okay for Trump to push back?

 

We're seeing a war between parties that don't like to operate out in the open. Trump, love him or hate him, so far has taken the fight to this deep state and exposed them in the public -- something that usually gets sitting presidents shot in the head in public.

 

We are living in interesting times...

[Magox]

 

You're not wrong, of course. But ask yourself this:

 

Why is it okay for the CIA and IC to make baseless accusations, with unnamed sources citing unnamed methods specifically to hype a (still unfounded) "Russia influenced the election outcome" narrative, simultaneously undercutting and subverting our democratic process... but it's not okay for Trump to push back?

 

We're seeing a war between parties that don't like to operate out in the open. Trump, love him or hate him, so far has taken the fight to this deep state and exposed them in the public -- something that usually gets sitting presidents shot in the head in public.

 

We are living in interesting times...

 

 

I'm not excusing any of that, believe it or not it was The Intercept's Greenwald's work on WAPO that opened my eyes to a few things. I 100% absolutely believe there is a McCarthy like witch hunt that is going on, and that the media and Democrats are the main perpetrators of this occurrence, along with the ones who I always suspected would be capable of this McCain/Graham.

 

However, that's not what we are talking about. The FBI and FISA courts are one thing, it's another to directly accuse Obama of ordering phone taps. This is a serious charge, Trump isn't just charging anyone he's charging the last US president. The onus is on him to provide proof.

 

If he does provide proof then it will be the biggest scandal since Watergate and that wouldn't be an exaggeration. I dislike Obama on a substantive policy level but I don't find him to be a relatively dishonest man. I don't believe that he would "order" such a thing. Is it possible that some of his cronies carried this out? Yeah, sycophants are capable of doing lots of irrational actions.

 

Like I and Ben Sasse says, the onus is on Trump to now back up what he says. I have a deep disdain for the press, but this is such a humongous accusation, the press should be all over this from both an investigative level and from a standpoint of incessantly pressing the White House for proof.

 

I don't see this story going away.

Edited March 4, 2017 by Magox

[DC Tom]

Senator Ben Sasse

 

 

But Sasse said if there was a legal authorization for a phone tap, then Trump should disclose that application.

"If it was with a legal FISA court order, then an application for surveillance exists that the court found credible. The president should ask that this full application regarding surveillance of foreign operatives or operations be made available, ideally to the full public, and at a bare minimum to the U.S. Senate," Sasse said.

 

Actually, no he shouldn't. If there were a legal wiretap on Trump, Obama's people should disclose it. "While we can't discuss the details of an investigation, we will confirm that yes, we executed a warrant to wiretap Trump Towers." Put the ball back in Trump's court, let him explain it.

 

That they haven't done that is the main reason I believe this is all bull ****.

[richstadiumowner]

"Liberal media is ignoring this, and instead seems to have coordinated a large online campaign with headlines that almost consistently read “Provides No Evidence”. So let’s get this straight: The GOP is accused of colluding with Russians MSM publishes as a front-page story fact, Trump accuses Obama of wiretapping and… “PROVIDES NO EVIDENCE!”

 

Bigly stuff coming and it's going to go poorly for the Obama admin.

Bunker mentality by the media has begun.

Edited March 4, 2017 by richstadiumowner

[B-Man]

What's "credible news" these days?

 

Maybe Trump is fighting fire with fire.

 

The Russian business is a conspiracy theory so why not distract with a conspiracy theory on top of the conspiracy theory?

 

There was a conspiracy to plant a conspiracy, etc. etc.

 

 

Oh well...............

 

The Associated Press Springs to Obama’s Defense

 

 

Say WHAT? Ben Rhodes’ lecture about presidential ‘restrictions’ sends heads to desks

 

Given Obama's history, "he had no lawful power to do that" is not evidence that he didn't. https://twitter.com/brhodes/status/838032637990166531 …

 

 

 

 

I mean it's not like the Obama admin used subverted authority to go after political opponents before tapping Trump tower...Oh...

 

[Deranged Rhino]

 

 

I'm not excusing any of that, believe it or not it was The Intercept's Greenwald's work on WAPO that opened my eyes to a few things. I 100% absolutely believe there is a McCarthy like witch hunt that is going on, and that the media and Democrats are the main perpetrators of this occurrence, along with the ones who I always suspected would be capable of this McCain/Graham.

 

However, that's not what we are talking about. The FBI and FISA courts are one thing, it's another to directly accuse Obama of ordering phone taps. This is a serious charge, Trump isn't just charging anyone he's charging the last US president. The onus is on him to provide proof.

 

If he does provide proof then it will be the biggest scandal since Watergate and that wouldn't be an exaggeration. I dislike Obama on a substantive policy level but I don't find him to be a relatively dishonest man. I don't believe that he would "order" such a thing. Is it possible that some of his cronies carried this out? Yeah, sycophants are capable of doing lots of irrational actions.

 

Like I and Ben Sasse says, the onus is on Trump to now back up what he says. I have a deep disdain for the press, but this is such a humongous accusation, the press should be all over this from both an investigative level and from a standpoint of incessantly pressing the White House for proof.

 

I don't see this story going away.

 

You're right, the story won't go away because what's happening right now is quite historic.

 

We'll agree to disagree on whether or not Obama is a relatively honest man -- based on my own investigations I find that to be the least defining characteristic of his tenure in the Oval. This is a man who ran on stopping regime change wars, stripping back the powers of the surveillance state, and promised the most transparent administration in history. Politics aside, he not only went back on all of these promises he lied (and continues to lie) about his administration's handling of each one.

 

The people Trump's administration are fighting more than likely are NOT getting their marching orders from Obama, I agree there. But 44's entire administration was co-opted and strong armed by this faction within the IC (see the Ukraine, Syria, Libya, and the drone wars for more information on this), their influence over him to this day remains quite strong. He's been positioning himself to be the face of the "resistance" by setting up shop in D.C. and getting his flunkies to start spreading the news that he's "back".

 

44, like 43 before him (and 42, and 41 and 40), was a servant to the very faction that's trying to undermine our democratic process. This faction crosses both aisles of the political spectrum and has no interest in working for the benefit of the American people.

 

Edit: I cannot stress this enough, none of this is meant as a defense of Trump or meant to defend him hurling twitter bombs for the !@#$ of it... but what we have been witnessing not just over the past 3 months but the past 3 years is the collapse of the dominant faction of the Deep State who are now so desperate to remain in power they're very publicly waging war on the entire ethos of our nation and what it's supposed to represent. Trump might be a lousy president, but he was fairly elected. Subverting his administration with innuendo and baseless charges of treason shouldn't be supported (not saying you are doing that, just clarifying my position) regardless of your politics.

Edited March 4, 2017 by Deranged Rhino

[Magox]

 

Actually, no he shouldn't. If there were a legal wiretap on Trump, Obama's people should disclose it. "While we can't discuss the details of an investigation, we will confirm that yes, we executed a warrant to wiretap Trump Towers." Put the ball back in Trump's court, let him explain it.

 

That they haven't done that is the main reason I believe this is all bull ****.

 

Yes and No.

 

Most likely one of three things happened.

 

A) Someone from FBI or Justice Department went to FISA courts and got the phone tap, which would be legal. In order to have gotten this they would have to prove probable cause for whatever case that they were making.

 

B) They illegally phone tapped it

 

C) This is all tangential related FISA meta data collection requests and Trump lies that Obama ordered the phone tap.

 

Under scenario A, it would make sense now that this is out for the Obama people to leak that there were people under the Trump campaign that were under investigation and FISA did approve phone taps. Of course, they run the risk of Trump using the bully pulpit/twitter to say "Obama people admits to phone tapping private citizens during election campaign". Of course the media's headlines would be "Confirmed that Trump campaign is under investigation".

 

Under Scenario A, Trump could probably fight this in the public eye and end up being a wash.

 

Scenario B is unlikely, Trump would have access to this information and he could easily produce the goods.

 

Scenario C is the most likely scenario.

 

Edit: I cannot stress this enough, none of this is meant as a defense of Trump or meant to defend him hurling twitter bombs for the !@#$ of it... but what we have been witnessing not just over the past 3 months but the past 3 years is the collapse of the dominant faction of the Deep State who are now so desperate to remain in power they're very publicly waging war on the entire ethos of our nation and what it's supposed to represent. Trump might be a lousy president, but he was fairly elected. Subverting his administration with innuendo and baseless charges of treason shouldn't be supported (not saying you are doing that, just clarifying my position) regardless of your politics.

 

 

Again, I believe that the previous administration, Democrats and the media are trying to discredit him at all costs, most of it with hyped up bull ****. But what is right is right and what is wrong is wrong. And anyone viewing Trump with clear eyes knows that this guy is big league bull **** and anything that comes out of his mouth or out of his twitter should be viewed with a high degree of skepticism.

 

This is not a black or white issue. Both sides can be horrible at the same time.

[Deranged Rhino]

 

This is not a black or white issue. Both sides can be horrible at the same time.

 

Yes, I agree. But one side was fairly elected by the citizens of the country. The other side is comprised of unelected intelligence officers with no oversight and a lengthy history of working against the people's interests.

 

This is bad guys versus bad guys -- but one side is unequivocally more of a threat our way of life. And it ain't 45.

[Magox]

This is for any of you who want to get the substantive breakdown of events you can go here and here

 

It comes from the guys on over at hotair which is definitely right leaning, but they are honest and not political hacks like most of the liberal and conservative media.

 

Of course, since it is kinda lengthy and substantive, I would expect that well over half of the board would have no interest in reading this.

 

Yes, I agree. But one side was fairly elected by the citizens of the country. The other side is comprised of unelected intelligence officers with no oversight and a lengthy history of working against the people's interests.

 

This is bad guys versus bad guys -- but one side is unequivocally more of a threat our way of life. And it ain't 45.

 

I'm not here to argue who is worse, I just don't tend to think in those terms.

[TH3]

A bit of advice: Don't go full Gator/Tiberius. You never go full Gator.[/quot

 

Ya. Agree with us or we will call you gator

[DC Tom]

A bit of advice: Don't go full Gator/Tiberius. You never go full Gator.[/quot

 

Ya. Agree with us or we will call you gator

[This is an automated response.]

 

 

Created by DC Tom-bot, beta version 0.61.

[Meathead]

 

Yesterday everyone was talking about Sessions needing to resign.

 

Today, everyone's talking about Trump's tweet.

 

You honestly think Trump didn't know exactly what he was doing, tweeting that?

 

lol. doesnt even slow them down

[Deranged Rhino]

 

I'm not here to argue who is worse, I just don't tend to think in those terms.

 

I hear you and I'm not trying to hammer you into choosing... just expounding. But I will say this sure feels like one of those times in history (imo) where choosing a side is going to become an inevitability.

 

Inaction will lead to the death of our Republic and the end of our democracy as we know it.

[DC Tom]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/10/fbi-chief-given-dossier-by-john-mccain-alleging-secret-trump-russia-contacts

 

 

The Guardian has learned that the FBI applied for a warrant from the foreign intelligence surveillance (Fisa) court over the summer in order to monitor four members of the Trump team suspected of irregular contacts with Russian officials. The Fisa court turned down the application asking FBI counter-intelligence investigators to narrow its focus. According to one report, the FBI was finally granted a warrant in October, but that has not been confirmed, and it is not clear whether any warrant led to a full investigation.

 

Just one of many I've found.

 

Trump parrots media reports that he's under surveillance, and media goes nuts. Tell me he's not playing them.

[B-Large]

I haven't seen anything like this since that Anita Bryant concert....