Bray Wyatt Posted January 9, 2019 Author Posted January 9, 2019 WWE needs the competition. It will elevate everyone. So much talent currently gets wasted in WWE. I could also go for a brand that is more adult themed, or something like Lucha Underground.
Koko78 Posted January 9, 2019 Posted January 9, 2019 16 minutes ago, apuszczalowski said: It's tough to own both and still try keeping them running as rival promotions against each other. It doesnt usually work very well. It may have worked if they changed things between the 2, like used TNAs octagon ring for one promotion, or made one of them and extreme promotion similar to ECW and the other a PG13 promotion. There would have to be some significant difference to them to work, otherwise it's just another 'brand' like they made Smackdown and Raw into. Definitely. It would only work if both promotions were run by different crews. Take what worked well with WCW, disregard the stupidity that led to their downfall, and provide a different product.
billsfan89 Posted January 9, 2019 Posted January 9, 2019 15 hours ago, Koko78 said: They need to avoid what TNA did. Money is great, but if you're not putting out a consistently good product with good writing and storytellers, it's all for nothing. I actually liked TNA matches better than WWE matches, but their storylines got terrible. I turned them off for good when they ran an angle where one wrestler held a knife to the throat of another wrestler with kids in the audience. Of course it was scripted - and I'm not easily offended - but that was too much. Apparently it got far worse when they started letting Hogan and Russo write the show. AEW is going to have to spend a few years building up the brand. Khan using his financial muscle to sign established stars and get a TV deal will help, but they have to show that they can keep churning out engaging storylines for all of their performers to make any headway. Rhodes as the eternal champion is going to get old, fast - like the early days of TNA as Jeff Jarrett's ego trip. Hopefully they can get Omega in the fold and build the single's division around Cody, Omega, PAC, and Jericho while they grow/develop some of their own stars. They also need to avoid, in the short term, direct competition with the WWE shows. They're not winning that battle anytime soon. TNA had two problems, they didn't have the management in place and their vision was grander than it should have been. TNA should have been happy being a viable number two promotion in North America at least for a period of time. You need to have good management in place in order to scale up. If you try to scale up with bad management you end up losing a lot of money. TNA had a profitable run from 2007-2008 where they were a nice alternative product at a time when WWE wasn't doing much. Yet After failing to take a big step up in 2009 they went and spent tons of money on a product that wasn't ready. AEW should strive to be a solid number 2 wrestling promotion for 3-5 years. Find a decent TV deal within 1 year (man would I love to see TNT or even another Turner network like Tru TV give them a solid deal) and then just spend a few years building a new and interesting product/brand. I hope AEW puts in place good management and understands that for them it is going to take a long drawn out process to make them a viable brand. They have some good talent secured but its not always about the talent (TNA at one point in my opinion had a better roster than WWE.) AEW hopefully will learn to walk before it can run and soon once Impact folds, ROH relegates its self back to being a hybrid indy, that will leave AEW as the primary wrestling company alternative. 3 hours ago, apuszczalowski said: It's tough to own both and still try keeping them running as rival promotions against each other. It doesnt usually work very well. It may have worked if they changed things between the 2, like used TNAs octagon ring for one promotion, or made one of them and extreme promotion similar to ECW and the other a PG13 promotion. There would have to be some significant difference to them to work, otherwise it's just another 'brand' like they made Smackdown and Raw into. To be fair that was the idea with the Invasion angle. They wanted to turn Smackdown in WCW Nitro but UPN wouldn't let them unless they cut the show to an hour (Thus cutting their revenue in half.) It was UPN's reluctance to have WCW branded programming that made them change course. That being said I am not sure how well they could have pulled it off, no matter what people would still know it was the same company.
apuszczalowski Posted January 11, 2019 Posted January 11, 2019 On 1/9/2019 at 3:52 PM, billsfan89 said: TNA had two problems, they didn't have the management in place and their vision was grander than it should have been. TNA should have been happy being a viable number two promotion in North America at least for a period of time. You need to have good management in place in order to scale up. If you try to scale up with bad management you end up losing a lot of money. TNA had a profitable run from 2007-2008 where they were a nice alternative product at a time when WWE wasn't doing much. Yet After failing to take a big step up in 2009 they went and spent tons of money on a product that wasn't ready. AEW should strive to be a solid number 2 wrestling promotion for 3-5 years. Find a decent TV deal within 1 year (man would I love to see TNT or even another Turner network like Tru TV give them a solid deal) and then just spend a few years building a new and interesting product/brand. I hope AEW puts in place good management and understands that for them it is going to take a long drawn out process to make them a viable brand. They have some good talent secured but its not always about the talent (TNA at one point in my opinion had a better roster than WWE.) AEW hopefully will learn to walk before it can run and soon once Impact folds, ROH relegates its self back to being a hybrid indy, that will leave AEW as the primary wrestling company alternative. To be fair that was the idea with the Invasion angle. They wanted to turn Smackdown in WCW Nitro but UPN wouldn't let them unless they cut the show to an hour (Thus cutting their revenue in half.) It was UPN's reluctance to have WCW branded programming that made them change course. That being said I am not sure how well they could have pulled it off, no matter what people would still know it was the same company. I think thats the biggest problem that happened, similar to why the XFL folded the first time around and a good chance it happens again. People know Vince McMahon is behind it and its therefore forever tied to WWE. Even if they had turned Smackdown into WCW, it still would have been another WWE show with a different name run by Vince. I don't see that going any different then what they have now with Smackdown and Raw being separate 'Brands', being run by different people on air with separate GM's
Koko78 Posted January 11, 2019 Posted January 11, 2019 57 minutes ago, apuszczalowski said: I think thats the biggest problem that happened, similar to why the XFL folded the first time around and a good chance it happens again. People know Vince McMahon is behind it and its therefore forever tied to WWE. Even if they had turned Smackdown into WCW, it still would have been another WWE show with a different name run by Vince. I don't see that going any different then what they have now with Smackdown and Raw being separate 'Brands', being run by different people on air with separate GM's Part of the problem with the separate brands is that there is no actual separation between the shows - they refer to each other a lot, they have talent bouncing back and forth (Cena, etc.), they have 'Sueprstar shakeups' every so often, they "co-brand" PPV events, etc. Most egregiously, there's generally been an obvious bias towards Raw in terms of siphoning the better wrestlers, treating Smackdown like a lesser show. People pick up on that. Mostly the same reasons ECW failed as its own show - it was the same exact product as Raw and Smackdown, and treated like a joke by the company. The only way having a WCW/ECW promotion succeed (under the general WWE banner - or better yet the old Titan Sports label McMahon used for years) would have been to completely divorce it from the rest of the WWE programming. If the promotion was sufficiently different, had sufficient resources thrown at it, wasn't regularly raided for talent, and wasn't obviously treated as a joke of a red-headed stepchild in front of the audience, it could have worked. Of course, it's been almost 20 years since WCW was a thing; it doesn't really matter anymore. There's no loyal WCW audience left to build off of.
Hirly5 Posted January 11, 2019 Posted January 11, 2019 (edited) I suggest listening to Something to Wrestle with Bruce Prichard. They go over the WCW purchase and final Nitro episode in a couple of their podcasts. See episode 19. The basic jist of why a separate WCW brand would not work is the lack of talent from WCW. Remember, WCW had guaranteed contracts. A majority of the top WCW stars (Sting, Goldberg, Hall, Nash etc.) had long term guaranteed contracts. For them to come under the WWE umbrella, WWE was not going to buy their existing contracts. The WCW talent would need to renegotiate new contracts at a reduced pay. For the top guys, why would you give up guaranteed money when you can sit at home and earn the money that Turner/Old WCW still owed you. It is similar to when a coach gets fired in the NFL. Even though they are fired, they are still guaranteed their money. Also, there is no guarantee that the top guys would even want to come to the WWE. The WWE schedule was much more intense than WCW. Look at the talent that came over from WCW to WWE. It was a bunch of jobbers and mid card talent sans Booker T (although, Booker T was just starting to become a top guy). I do not think there was enough star power for a WCW only show. Another reason was the WCW brand was a dead brand on arrival. If WCW was such a good brand, it would not have went out of business. The ratings and product towards the end was absolutely atrocious. As far as AEW, it is all about a TV contract for them. If they want to survive they need decent TV exposure. There is no way any new wrestling promotion is going to compete with WWE without a decent TV contract. Impact Wrestling was a decent product but their TV contract just got worse and worse. They had a lot of talent (AJ Styles, Samoa Joe, The Hardys). They went from Spike to Destination America to POP to some unknown network. Other factors are that WWE seems to signing top indie talent and just stashing them in NXT or in developmental. WWE can afford to sign talent which then prevents a rival promotion from using them. I hope AEW succeeds but I think it is a huge mountain to climb. Luckily they have some deep pockets with the Khans. Edited January 11, 2019 by Hirly5 1
Koko78 Posted January 11, 2019 Posted January 11, 2019 7 hours ago, Hirly5 said: I suggest listening to Something to Wrestle with Bruce Prichard. They go over the WCW purchase and final Nitro episode in a couple of their podcasts. See episode 19. The basic jist of why a separate WCW brand would not work is the lack of talent from WCW. Remember, WCW had guaranteed contracts. A majority of the top WCW stars (Sting, Goldberg, Hall, Nash etc.) had long term guaranteed contracts. For them to come under the WWE umbrella, WWE was not going to buy their existing contracts. The WCW talent would need to renegotiate new contracts at a reduced pay. For the top guys, why would you give up guaranteed money when you can sit at home and earn the money that Turner/Old WCW still owed you. It is similar to when a coach gets fired in the NFL. Even though they are fired, they are still guaranteed their money. Also, there is no guarantee that the top guys would even want to come to the WWE. The WWE schedule was much more intense than WCW. Look at the talent that came over from WCW to WWE. It was a bunch of jobbers and mid card talent sans Booker T (although, Booker T was just starting to become a top guy). I do not think there was enough star power for a WCW only show. Another reason was the WCW brand was a dead brand on arrival. If WCW was such a good brand, it would not have went out of business. The ratings and product towards the end was absolutely atrocious. I didn't say anything about relying solely on old WCW talent, or even an immediate restart. They could have done any number of things to restart the brand within a few years of the purchase, especially after the invasion storyline. Wouldn't have been hard to reassign WW[F] guys to a WCW brand and sell it as Shane taking them with him (along with guys like Booker T) after the invasion failed. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On another note, I hope Lars Sullivan is going to be ok. Panic attacks backstage, when you're supposed to perform in front of thousands, isn't a good sign. https://www.cagesideseats.com/wwe/2019/1/11/18178753/planned-john-cena-wrestlemania-story-on-hold-possible-spoilers-anxiety-attack
njbuff Posted January 27, 2019 Posted January 27, 2019 What's your favorite match of all time? This is mine............ as the challenger makes a deal with the Devil to try and garner championship gold. 1
The Poojer Posted January 28, 2019 Posted January 28, 2019 I'm sick and tired of the McMahon kids. Vince is/was the ultimate circus barker. His kids are interjecting themselves into it way too much. Let the general population roster have the glory and just sit back in the wings and count your damn money
Not at the table Karlos Posted January 28, 2019 Posted January 28, 2019 4 hours ago, The Poojer said: I'm sick and tired of the McMahon kids. Vince is/was the ultimate circus barker. His kids are interjecting themselves into it way too much. Let the general population roster have the glory and just sit back in the wings and count your damn money I disagree. Shane O'mac is entertaining 1
Bray Wyatt Posted January 28, 2019 Author Posted January 28, 2019 I thought this was a pretty good Royal Rumble and the winners were the right people IMO
The Senator Posted January 28, 2019 Posted January 28, 2019 (edited) Whatever happened to Dominic Denucci? Bruno Samartino? Tony Martinez, Johnny Valentine, Pampiro Firpo, George ‘The Animal’ Steele, Jesse ‘The Body’ Ventura, Bobby ‘The Brain’ Herman, Rowdy Roddy Piper, et al??? Those were the good ol’ days, when pro wrestling was fun. All the great ones are gone. I can’t watch it anymore. . Edited January 28, 2019 by The Senator 1
Koko78 Posted January 28, 2019 Posted January 28, 2019 57 minutes ago, The Senator said: Whatever happened to Dominic Denucci? Bruno Samartino? Tony Martinez, Johnny Valentine, Pampiro Firpo, George ‘The Animal’ Steele, Jesse ‘The Body’ Ventura, Bobby ‘The Brain’ Herman, Rowdy Roddy Piper, et al??? Those were the good ol’ days, when pro wrestling was fun. All the great ones are gone. I can’t watch it anymore. . Half of them are dead, the other half are far too old to put on a quality match. 1
apuszczalowski Posted January 28, 2019 Posted January 28, 2019 57 minutes ago, The Senator said: Whatever happened to Dominic Denucci? Bruno Samartino? Tony Martinez, Johnny Valentine, Pampiro Firpo, George ‘The Animal’ Steele, Jesse ‘The Body’ Ventura, Bobby ‘The Brain’ Herman, Rowdy Roddy Piper, et al??? Those were the good ol’ days, when pro wrestling was fun. All the great ones are gone. I can’t watch it anymore. . They all aged and are either too old or dead to continue on.......... From an entertainment perspective, the old days pre 80s was pretty boring stuff compared to today and what they are willing and able to do.
The Senator Posted January 28, 2019 Posted January 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Koko78 said: Half of them are dead, the other half are far too old to put on a quality match. When I saw your reply, I thought maybe it’s from Koko B. Ware! ? 1
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted January 28, 2019 Posted January 28, 2019 5 hours ago, Bray Wyatt said: I thought this was a pretty good Royal Rumble and the winners were the right people IMO I actually liked the show too, other than Shane McMahon being portrayed as better than world class pro fighters. Becky is a star, I thought she and Asuka had the best match. The womenfolk in general were the best parts of the show for me. It was great to see Double J too, by the way that's J-E-Double F, J-A-Double R-E-Double-T! Ain't he great?
Fr. Jerk Posted January 28, 2019 Posted January 28, 2019 18 hours ago, Not at the table Karlos said: I disagree. Shane O'mac is entertaining Shane is better in the ring than at least half the roster, IMO. 1
Logic Posted January 31, 2019 Posted January 31, 2019 Just bought a ticket to see RAW on Monday night here in Portland. I haven't been to a wrestling event in almost two decades, but the ticket was cheap and I thought it might be an fun trip down memory lane, since I was an obsessive wrestling fan as a kid. Watched Royal Rumble and the following night's RAW to get myself up to date on what's happening. Not sure if I'll be able to keep up with the wrestling crowds of today, what with their infinite number of chants and theme song sing-alongs. Should be a weird time. 1
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