Are there any racist institutions? How and why.

[The_Dude]

48 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

What caused Bill to try to be entertaining for once?

 

I like ol’ Bill. 

[B-Man]

PUNCH BACK TWICE AS HARD: Gavin McInnes sues the SPLC.

 

 

The full complaint is here.

 

 

 

.

[BeginnersMind]

The Rs are not all racists any more than the Ds are, but the Rs don't look like America with incoming Congressional classes like this:

 

[BringBackOrton]

14 minutes ago, BeginnersMind said:

The Rs are not all racists any more than the Ds are, but the Rs don't look like America with incoming Congressional classes like this:

 

Who cares? 

[KRC]

15 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Who cares? 

 

You need to elect people based off of the color of their skin to prove that you do not base your opinions off of the color of someone's skin. Duh.

[BeginnersMind]

23 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Who cares? 

 

I do. I believe in many of the R party principles but the shifting demographics in the US won't support the party if it can't reach those demographics. 

 

 

6 minutes ago, KRC said:

 

You need to elect people based off of the color of their skin to prove that you do not base your opinions off of the color of someone's skin. Duh.

 

Simpleminded trivializing of a growing demographic gap in Congressional leadership. The Rs know they have a problem and are talking openly about it. I hope they address it soon. The Ds often play the race card to their advantage racially. That's bad enough. But the Rs need to find a way to bring in leaders who are not white dudes to keep their ideas alive politically. I'm surprised that you don't see this as a problem for the Rs. 

Edited February 7, 2019 by BeginnersMind

[KRC]

9 minutes ago, BeginnersMind said:

 

Simpleminded trivializing of a growing demographic gap in Congressional leadership. The Rs know they have a problem and are talking openly about it. I hope they address it soon. The Ds often play the race card to their advantage racially. That's bad enough. But the Rs need to find a way to bring in leaders who are not white dudes to keep their ideas alive politically. I'm surprised that you don't see this as a problem for the Rs. 

 

The Dems pull out their usual tactics and berate, denigrate, call people "Uncle Tom's", etc. if you dare to think for yourself. The white libs are quick to tell the black man how he is supposed to think and act, and put him in his place. You can't make progress when "progressives" think they still live on the plantations.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

Ironic. That baby could be the biological love child of pretty much all those Republicans. 

 

Seriously though, that little chart is pretty degrading in and of itself.  All the Republicans are pulled from the Aryan handbook? No Italians, Irish, Polish, dark-haired people? Red heads with freckles?   No war veterans, no stories of personal tragedy or triumph...just reduced to yellow-skinned stick figures with pompadour hair styles? 

 

And the Ds, you have all the white Ds representing the same tired look as the Rs, presumably walking in lockstep with them? And since there are different tones on the non-Aryans, are they designed to be accurate representations? Again, no stories to be told here? 

 

Whoever created this is a racist. 

[BeginnersMind]

21 minutes ago, KRC said:

 

The Dems pull out their usual tactics and berate, denigrate, call people "Uncle Tom's", etc. if you dare to think for yourself. The white libs are quick to tell the black man how he is supposed to think and act, and put him in his place. You can't make progress when "progressives" think they still live on the plantations.

 

Rubber-glue argument. Because the Dems are bad actors does not mean the Rs don't have a problem. 

 

They absolutely need to figure out a way to get their message of American pride, free trade, capitalism, low taxes, smart immigration reform,  etc heard by others...believed in by others...and most importantly lead by others than white dudes. It's imperative to continue the proliferation of those ideas in our democracy. 

 

Responses of "The Dems are jerks" are nothing more partisan sniping and running from the problem of a lack of R leadership on this. Magox I believe is an R who has posted about this before (I don't mean to suggest he agrees with me...just that he's hit this topic before). I found his arguments and insights on this persuasive.

Edited February 7, 2019 by BeginnersMind

[Magox]

16 minutes ago, BeginnersMind said:

 

Rubber-glue argument. Because the Dems are bad actors does not mean the Rs don't have a problem. 

 

They absolutely need to figure out a way to get their message of American pride, free trade, capitalism, low taxes, smart immigration reform,  etc heard by others...believed in by others...and most importantly lead by others than white dudes. It's imperative to continue the proliferation of those ideas in our democracy. 

 

Responses of "The Dems are jerks" are nothing more partisan sniping and running from the problem of a lack of R leadership on this. Magox I believe is an R who has posted about this before (I don't mean to suggest he agrees with me...just that he's hit this topic before). I found his arguments and insights on this persuasive.

 

The problem is that both parties have become overly tribalistic.   It's truly not about policy positions as much as it about winning and losing.  And the most effective way that they have found to win are to draw clear contrasts, pick out a sliver of the opposing position that each irrespective base finds odious and bludgeon them to a pulp with it.   

 

What I dislike the most about the Republican party is the tone and prevalent sentiment among the core of the base towards illegal immigration.   I absolutely believe that there should be more controls at the border and that illegal immigration is an issue that needs to be resolved.  I absolutely believe that the Democrats are playing games by not giving in on the border but again, it's tribalistic politics and this is the way the game is played.  Nancy Pelosi has to not give in or she'll lose her base.  Unfortunately that's just the way it is.

 

With that said, the anti immigrant bias that I see is problematic for the Republican party.  First, it's just wrong.  I don't mean to get overly philosophical on this or sound like some sort of hippy but people are people.  We essentially are all the same, what separates us are our cultures and upbringing.  For the most part people want to do well for themselves and their family and for many illegal immigrants who come to this country they are simply coming over with the best of intentions.  Some of you, if you were in their position and you got denied a VISA to come to the U.S, and the country where you reside has limited opportunities and you thought that coming to the U.S could afford more opportunities for you and your family, you may just consider it.   

 

I turn on FOX news and they constantly harp on the worst elements, where some illegal immigrant commits some heinous crime.  It's not representative of the people that come here illegally.  I'M NOT ADVOCATING TO ALLOW THEM TO COME TO THE COUNTRY!

 

What I'm advocating for is a level of empathy and understanding and to stop the demonization of these folks.  But I know that is a pipe dream.   For a few reasons,:

 

A) As I mentioned earlier, highlighting the worse elements of illegal immigration helps advance the cause for Republicans to win in certain areas.

 

B)  The Conservative entertainment hustlers such as Ingraham, Rush, Hannity etc etc make their $$ highlighting these things.  They help whip up the base into a frenzy and they carry lots of weight.

 

C) Unfortunately, the conservative entertainment hustlers didn't just create this out of nowhere, there is a willing audience that likes to consume this information.  Most of these folks don't have lots of exposure to these folks and it's a simple matter of not understanding each others cultures.  Naturally people are fearful of those that they don't know or understand.  It's human nature.  -  Illegal immigration "taking away our jobs" is not an abstract concept.   It is very easy to communicate and therefore easy to disseminate and digest.  Even though the facts show that illegal immigration does not take away a meaningful amount of jobs.    

 

I try to make my case to whoever is willing to listen that the demonization of these humans is something that I think is unfortunate.  But that involves a level of empathy and I just don't think there is too much of an appetite for that, unless it involves their teams cause.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[TakeYouToTasker]

11 minutes ago, Magox said:

 

The problem is that both parties have become overly tribalistic.   It's truly not about policy positions as much as it about winning and losing.  And the most effective way that they have found to win are to draw clear contrasts, pick out a sliver of the opposing position that each irrespective base finds odious and bludgeon them to a pulp with it.   

 

What I dislike the most about the Republican party is the tone and prevalent sentiment among the core of the base towards illegal immigration.   I absolutely believe that there should be more controls at the border and that illegal immigration is an issue that needs to be resolved.  I absolutely believe that the Democrats are playing games by not giving in on the border but again, it's tribalistic politics and this is the way the game is played.  Nancy Pelosi has to not give in or she'll lose her base.  Unfortunately that's just the way it is.

 

With that said, the anti immigrant bias that I see is problematic for the Republican party.  First, it's just wrong.  I don't mean to get overly philosophical on this or sound like some sort of hippy but people are people.  We essentially are all the same, what separates us are our cultures and upbringing.  For the most part people want to do well for themselves and their family and for many illegal immigrants who come to this country they are simply coming over with the best of intentions.  Some of you, if you were in their position and you got denied a VISA to come to the U.S, and the country where you reside has limited opportunities and you thought that coming to the U.S could afford more opportunities for you and your family, you may just consider it.   

 

I turn on FOX news and they constantly harp on the worst elements, where some illegal immigrant commits some heinous crime.  It's not representative of the people that come here illegally.  I'M NOT ADVOCATING TO ALLOW THEM TO COME TO THE COUNTRY!

 

What I'm advocating for is a level of empathy and understanding and to stop the demonization of these folks.  But I know that is a pipe dream.   For a few reasons,:

 

A) As I mentioned earlier, highlighting the worse elements of illegal immigration helps advance the cause for Republicans to win in certain areas.

 

B)  The Conservative entertainment hustlers such as Ingraham, Rush, Hannity etc etc make their $$ highlighting these things.  They help whip up the base into a frenzy and they carry lots of weight.

 

C) Unfortunately, the conservative entertainment hustlers didn't just create this out of nowhere, there is a willing audience that likes to consume this information.  Most of these folks don't have lots of exposure to these folks and it's a simple matter of not understanding each others cultures.  Naturally people are fearful of those that they don't know or understand.  It's human nature.  -  Illegal immigration "taking away our jobs" is not an abstract concept.   It is very easy to communicate and therefore easy to disseminate and digest.  Even though the facts show that illegal immigration does not take away a meaningful amount of jobs.    

 

I try to make my case to whoever is willing to listen that the demonization of these humans is something that I think is unfortunate.  But that involves a level of empathy and I just don't think there is too much of an appetite for that, unless it involves their teams cause.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

I would be much more accepting of these arguments if we didn’t have such robust social saftey nets.  There are no national interests in importing poor people from third work countries who don’t speak fluent English, and aren’t skilled laborers outside of the existing work visa programs.

Edited February 7, 2019 by TakeYouToTasker

[BeginnersMind]

26 minutes ago, Magox said:

 

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

 

There's not one thing in this that I disagree with, and welcome the intelligent dialog and thoughtful ideas in your post, not just because I agree with it, but for how it was stated.

 

I'll turn this slightly from your cogent position on immigration and how you think the R party has to think about this deeper than they sometimes are, though others can chime in on that. 

 

If the future of the R party and more importantly its ideals (which may or may not be absent these days from the actual party) are to survive against the D socialistic push, it needs to attract new eyes, and one of the demographics that is going to be more open to those ideas is Hispanic. African-Americans are currently firmly entrenched with the Ds. The Hispanic population is, in my opinion, not entirely in either party's camp right now. But the Rs do themselves no favors by failing to reach into new demographics and continuing to send white dudes to Congress.  That is not me saying that Rs are racist..or advocating for affirmative action...just trying to point out that the male whitening of the Rs in Congress is unsustainable and they need a smarter strategy, one that might do well to seek out a group of people open to sharing in their ideals. 

 

Some people at a national level (Rubio, Bushes) get this. But the new wave of Trump Rs don't seem to.  

Edited February 7, 2019 by BeginnersMind

[Magox]

14 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said:

 

I would be much more accepting of these arguments if we didn’t have such robust social saftey nets.  There are no national interests in importing poor people from third work countries who don’t speak fluent English, and aren’t skilled laborers outside of the existing work visa programs.

 

I get that and my argument isn't a position to advocate for higher immigration entrance for low-skilled labor,  it's the general tone and demonization of illegal immigrants.

 

 

[B-Man]

 

Are there any racist institutions? 

 

 

[TakeYouToTasker]

4 minutes ago, Magox said:

 

I get that and my argument isn't a position to advocate for higher immigration entrance for low-skilled labor,  it's the general tone and demonization of illegal immigrants.

 

 

That part of your argument I don’t disagree with, as I think we’ve discussed before.

 

I believe that many here would make the trek, legal or otherwise, were they unfortunate enough to have been born a few hundred miles south; and I don’t think it’s immoral for a person to travel to seek a better life.

 

However I don’t think the two arguments can be decoupled.

[Foxx]

4 hours ago, KRC said:

 

You need to elect people based off of the color of their skin to prove that you do not base your opinions off of the color of someone's skin. Duh.

affirmative action

because that worked so well.....

[row_33]

4 hours ago, KRC said:

 

You need to elect people based off of the color of their skin to prove that you do not base your opinions off of the color of someone's skin. Duh.

 

try to live a decent life and use the gifts and skills you have been given, and be nice...

 

 

[Magox]

3 hours ago, BeginnersMind said:

 

There's not one thing in this that I disagree with, and welcome the intelligent dialog and thoughtful ideas in your post, not just because I agree with it, but for how it was stated.

 

I'll turn this slightly from your cogent position on immigration and how you think the R party has to think about this deeper than they sometimes are, though others can chime in on that. 

 

If the future of the R party and more importantly its ideals (which may or may not be absent these days from the actual party) are to survive against the D socialistic push, it needs to attract new eyes, and one of the demographics that is going to be more open to those ideas is Hispanic. African-Americans are currently firmly entrenched with the Ds. The Hispanic population is, in my opinion, not entirely in either party's camp right now. But the Rs do themselves no favors by failing to reach into new demographics and continuing to send white dudes to Congress.  That is not me saying that Rs are racist..or advocating for affirmative action...just trying to point out that the male whitening of the Rs in Congress is unsustainable and they need a smarter strategy, one that might do well to seek out a group of people open to sharing in their ideals. 

 

Some people at a national level (Rubio, Bushes) get this. But the new wave of Trump Rs don't seem to.  

 

The problem with the Rubio and Bushes is that they are seen as corporate cookie cutter globalist big government Republicans.  Sure, they are socially Conservative and they want to cut the fat off some spending programs and they believe in limited government in certain areas but in others not so much.  They are seen as Pro War, they are seen as globalists, they are seen corporate shills.   These sort of Republicans have troubles in the midwest and the more populist anti globalist better trade deal sort of candidate Trump was able to compete.   Trump has rewritten the map and he has shown Republicans a new way and path to electoral victory.  Which means the more hawkish globalist corporate Republicans are becoming a thing of the past.  

 

This midwest path is buying some more time but inevitably I do think the demographics will pose some problems.   But it's a ying yang sort of deal, in one demographic you may lose votes but in other you pick them right up like what we saw this last time around.   

 

But if Texas becomes a legitimate purple state, I just don't see how the R's can make that ground back up, unless they somehow turn the midwest from purple to red.

[The_Dude]

The DNC is racist. They hate honkies. 

[keepthefaith]

3 hours ago, TakeYouToTasker said:

 

I would be much more accepting of these arguments if we didn’t have such robust social saftey nets.  There are no national interests in importing poor people from third work countries who don’t speak fluent English, and aren’t skilled laborers outside of the existing work visa programs.

 

Agree.