Are there any racist institutions? How and why.

[B-Man]

The Southern Poverty Law Center ................racists posing as arbiters

[DoYouSeeWhatHappensLarry]

No, it does not. This is an assertion that correlation is causation.

 

In order to prove institution racism, you need to demonstrate that racism is a motivator of the policy. When examining the case of North Carolina's voting laws, you must prove that the desire to eliminate electoral fraud was not the motivator. All requirements and prohibitions imposed by the law in question can far more linearly be squared with the desire to protect the integrity of the vote than it can with seeking to disenfranchise minorities.

 

 

 

 

Because statitcs have always borne out that men commit a largely disproportionate amount of crimes compared to women.

 

1) Correlation does not equal causation. However, correlation and causation are not mutually exclusive. Many correlative relationships are also causal. Like....tons and tons.

 

2) The NC analysis is pretty clearly laid out in the opinion of the Court. I believe the phrase was "almost surgical precision?" And of course there's the argument that "electoral fraud" isn't an issue of any true import and needs to be "eliminated" in the way that ghosts need to be eliminated. But thats neither here nor there.

 

I will grant that I think a large portion of what motivates those laws is politics and the desire to keep Republicans (really "conservatives" more than Republicans) on a tilted electoral ground. Like I said, I dont think its a bunch of white dudes sitting around saying "how can we stop blacks from voting." Instead, I think its a bunch of R's saying "how can we stop democrats from voting." The problem comes in the secondary analysis. The history and rationale behind these marginalization efforts. The labeling of black folk as "takers" or "race baiters" or any other codeword nonsense. And of course, theres the idea that when one wants to take an action and there is a clearly foreseeable, disparate effect on communities of color that is ignored as the action is undertaken, it isnt too tough to call that racist. Because ultimately you're making the determination that "welp, a bunch of black folks wont be able to vote but tough stuff for them"

 

2) The data you're referencing comes with a problem built in....the ratio of crimes committed to perpetrators identified/punished is not 1:1. So we're working with data that we hope is indicative of the world at large but we can't really know for sure by the data. Obviously we have to take it at face value as it's the best we can do at the moment but we also have to be mindful of how biases could affect the data set. On the small scale, that's a given LEO letting a woman skate on an assault incident while arresting a man involved in a similar incident. Those things absolutely happen. Do they happen enough to toss the data in the trash? No, obviously not. But its not something that should be ignored.

 

And not for nothing but to prove that no bias is absent in the data we're working with, you'd need figures that support the notion that the ratio of incarcerated men to incarcerated women matches the ratio of crimes committed by men to the crimes committed by women. Is it 10 to 1? 8 to 1? 20 to 1?

 

You have an odd definition of "institutional racism." Usually, that term refers to the unrecognized or unacknowledged bias in social, commercial, or governance systems, where such bias is historically inherent and slow to change.

 

You are the first person I've ever seen describe it as "institutions that are racist." That's a bizarrely concrete interpretation of a phrase I've always seen defined in a very abstract manner.

 

But they're really the same thing, right? Those things of which you speak (let's call them biases) ARE institutional norms and rules of order. That's more of what I was speaking to. And I think the key is that they are "unrecognized" or "unacknowledged." It's the difference between explicitly racist structures (Apartheid, Jim Crow, slavery) and structures (housing policy, policing policy, etc) with implicitly racist features.

 

perhaps I didnt describe it well. I meant something like "the institution in question has racist applications nested inside" rather than "The institution in question is explicitly racist"

 

Does that make sense?

[Chef Jim]

La Raza

[richstadiumowner]

NAACP is so racist it's members can barely mention their own name and are reduced to using a meaningless acronym.

Affirmative action.

Black history month

Edited March 4, 2017 by richstadiumowner

[richstadiumowner]

The how and why is that institutionalized racists are convinced that lower expectations are expected from black people.

ie black people aren't smart enough to get or maintain ID's like white people are because blacks are inferior.

[DC Tom]

The how and why is that institutionalized racists are convinced that lower expectations are expected from black people.

ie black people aren't smart enough to get or maintain ID's like white people are because blacks are inferior.

 

You'll have to do better than this to survive this board.

[/dev/null]

BLM, clearly not.

 

The New Black Panthers....perhaps. I wouldnt deny that there are racists (or at least prejudiced folks) among racial/ethnic minorities. However, the source of their racism is different in character.

 

How is the source of their racism different in character?

 

The racists that I have met in my life, regardless of skin color, all shared the same basic characteristic. They were a**holes

[KD in CA]

NAACP is so racist it's members can barely mention their own name and are reduced to using a meaningless acronym.

 

Not only that, they'll white ball you if your parents out you as a honky.

[FireChan]

Monsoons are institutionally racist. They affect predominantly Asian people.

[richstadiumowner]

 

You'll have to do better than this to survive this board.

Thanks DC.

How so?

[richstadiumowner]

Not only that, they'll white ball you if your parents out you as a honky.

But you can always change your name.

[/dev/null]

Monsoons are institutionally racist. They affect predominantly Asian people.

Sandstorms are Islamophobic

[Azalin]

Sandstorms are Islamophobic

 

Well, at least blizzards are politically correct, geographically speaking.

[Nanker]

The Japanese Army

The North Korean Army

The South Korean Army

The Indian Army

The Iranian Army

The Saudi Army

ISIS

The Swiss

Boko Haram

Somali Salvation Democratic Front, Somali National Front, Somali National Movement

 

There are many, many others too numerous to mention.

So why stop at institutions?

 

The Chinese are racist

The Japanese are racist

The Indians are racist

Dark skinned Africans are looked down upon by light skinned Americans of African descent (that's a biggie folks)

 

!@#$, the only people who weren't racist were the Aztecs and Hawaiians, and look where that got them.

[Tiberius]

Disparate impact is not evidence of institutional racism.

 

Just because a law has a greater impact on members of a certain race does not make it racist. An argument that more cases of negative impact is a firm indicator of racism must start with the base assumption that members of a given race are more prone to negative impacts because they are members of that race, which to me, in and of itself, seems to be a racist argument.

 

I'll give you a borrowed example:

 

According to the Bureau of Justice, in 2013 across local, state and federal prisons, 213,700 women were incarcerated, while 2,092,400 men were incarcerated.

 

Making an argument based on disparate impact, the American penal system is amongst the most sexist institutions in history, given the population is greater than 50% female, while approximately 90% of the prison population is male.

 

That, however, is a poor argument, and I think you know why.

No, actually they wrote the law looking to make it harder for blacks to vote. They literally looked at ways blacks voted and then tried to obstruct their ability to do that.

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/07/north-carolina-voting-rights-law/493649/

 

“In what comes as close to a smoking gun as we are likely to see in modern times, the State’s very justification for a challenged statute hinges explicitly on race—specifically its concern that African Americans, who had overwhelmingly voted for Democrats, had too much access to the franchise,” wrote Judge Diana Gribbon Motz.

The [/size]Southern Poverty Law Center[/size] ................racists posing as arbiters

Yup, if people try and stop hate, racism and discrimination they are the bad ones. Racists HATE the Sothern Poverty Law Center

Sandstorms are Islamophobic

Watch it, they will try and ban you for interrupting a serious discussion...oh wait, you are Conservative, never mind

[GG]

The inner cities' public school system.

[Meathead]

North Carolina legislature

 

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/court-north-carolina-voter-id-law-targeted-black-voters/

 

you can make the case that this is electorate bias and not necessarily a statement about the inferiority and unworthiness of a race, which is what 'racism' is supposed to be. you could say blackness is really the convenient exploitability of that voting block driving the selective legislative behavior and not necessarily a race bias

 

are there some republicans that secretly get a little chubby at the same time just bc its blacks they are fkg over? yeah, most likely. does that mean we should let the whole thing bc classified as automatically racist? i dont think so

 

i agree that their modifications of the voting laws are unacceptable and most efforts like this need to be not only struck down in the courts but punished at the polls. the courts always need to stay on top of these kinds of vote manipulation and selective restrictions efforts

 

but i dont see the benefit culturally of making those actions automatically 'racist', that word doesnt really fit here unless you force fit it, and making fit is whats causing all the trouble in our general culture when it comes to our thoroughly dysfunctional race problems

 

lets save calling stuff racist for real racism. you know, when one race doesnt like or trust or thinks another race isnt worthy for no good reasons. weve warped the definition of racism into sooooo many corners of everything including a ton of stuff where it doesnt belong and its destroying our ability to do this race thing properly

 

Dark skinned Africans are looked down upon by light skinned Americans of African descent (that's a biggie folks)

 

 

lol. this is actually very true. it incredibly bizarre to sit in a black club and watch black folks discriminate against dark blacks. happens all the time, at least it used to when i used to go to clubs, cant see much reason why it would be much different now

Edited March 4, 2017 by Meathead

[/dev/null]

Watch it, they will try and ban you for interrupting a serious discussion...oh wait, you are Conservative, never mind

But my shenanigans are cheeky and fun.

 

Yours are cruel and tragic.

[Nanker]

lol. this is actually very true. it incredibly bizarre to sit in a black club and watch black folks discriminate against dark blacks. happens all the time, at least it used to when i used to go to clubs, cant see much reason why it would be much different now

It most certainly is. I used to work with a lot of minorities and one of them was a "wrong color guy". He was an African American albino. One of the nicest people you'd ever want to meet. The brothers told me all kinds of **** about black on blacker racism.

[Meathead]

yeah i used to live it. when i was married to my black wife she was seriously adverse to getting any darker bc she was 'already black enough'. she wasnt biased against other dark blacks but she definitely had a latent bias in herself, obviously from the overt black bias against dark blacks she undoubtedly experienced in her ghetto upbringing. she was actually brilliant mentally, but she still carried a lot of scars. i like the really dark black women so i used to try to get her to go in the sun but she refused, and if she had to go into the sun she used sun block, wore a big wide brimmed hat, and baggy beach clothes. not even lying at all about that

 

then when she turned crazy, like most black women do in a very classic crazy black woman pattern, we divorced and i started going to black clubs to find a gf. it always obvious as hell blacks in the club definitely were biased against the darker black girls bc they would just sit there waiting for guys to come up to them, while the lighter black girls would flit around happily with a train of guys following them around. it was awesome for me bc the darker girls were eager for the attention, so i was like the photo negative stud in the room to them. i literally stopped even trying to talk to the lighter skinned girls bc they were such a pain in the ass. i almost had my pick of the darker girls so why bother with the light black princesses?

 

of course the last time i tried that i started getting threatened by the black guys once they noticed my success so i stopped going to those places. funny how the blacks have become the 'dont go after our women' racists when black men are pretty much fkg record amounts of white kitty the last twenty plus years

Edited March 5, 2017 by Meathead