TPS Posted March 4, 2017 Posted March 4, 2017 For the sake of discussion let's assume the article paints an accurate picture. The picture is disturbing on many fronts. The organization negotiated a contract with TT that puts the player in a strong position and the team in a bind when the option decision comes up. Either the organization agrees to the deal or the player goes out to the market and gets a comparable or higher deal because of the tight market for qbs. What it boils down to is that Whaley doesn't want to sign the option at the price he negotiated at. He is the one dealing the cards and he is the one receiving the unappealing cards. The most disturbing issue I find in the story (if true) is it appears that the new coach has more authority than the GM. That is not a healthy situation for any franchise, and it is not a smart way to run a football franchise. What the power arrangement vis a vis GM to HC that was structured by the owner did is take away authority from the GM that most, if not all, GMs have. That diminution of authority clearly is a sign of a lack of confidence by the owner towards the GM. What is the cause of this non-conventional/traditional organizational structure for a NFL frachise? It all goes back to Whaley's inability to put together a competitive team. And that issue goes back mostly to his inability over a reasonable period of time to adequately address the qb situation, the essential ingredient to field a competitive team. In the Watkins deal Whaley was bold and willing to give up a lot to secure a talented receiver in a rich receiver draft class. The mistake he made was that he should have used his willingness to gamble for a qb instead of a receiver. This organization hasn't had a franchise qb since the retirement of Jim Kelly, over twenty years ago. In a system designed for parity this franchise hasn't been in the playoffs for 18 years. The two situations are inextricably linked. That is a disgrace and an embarrassment. one issue with your Watkins vs QB scenario is, at the time, they thought they had their guy in the form of EJ, who showed flashes of it in his rookie year--the Carolina comeback game as just one example. In their minds, they were going after a true #1 WR to complement ej. I'm not saying they were correct, rather the context of the trade was done under THEIR belief they had the long term answer at QB.
CommonCents Posted March 4, 2017 Posted March 4, 2017 Given that they haven't made a decision yet I suspect this story is true. Whaley has obviously wanted him gone for a long time, and McDermott probably realizes Taylor gives them the best option at QB this year. You'd think they'd have had a discussion about this prior to hiring McDermott as HC. Why would they do that? It was just a few years ago they hired Rex and apparently forgot to discuss what type of defense they wanted to play. The beat just goes on with these guys. It's hard to stomach growing pains from the Pegula's, they already have a pro team yet they still show no semblance of how to run one. It's not really a "green" ownership, meeting with the players without the coach, PR disasters, retaining Whaley and entering a rebuild/retool??, still no direction at QB, power struggle over TT between the HC and a GM stuck in self preservation mode? If Whaley still needs to lookout for his job and not spend 100% of his time, effort and resources building a team for the long term then we are heading towards that 20 year mark without playoffs. If the Pegula's believe in Whaley they stop this we are "close" rhetoric and commit to letting bozo run the show for a few more years.
jrober38 Posted March 4, 2017 Posted March 4, 2017 Why would they do that? It was just a few years ago they hired Rex and apparently forgot to discuss what type of defense they wanted to play. The beat just goes on with these guys. It's hard to stomach growing pains from the Pegula's, they already have a pro team yet they still show no semblance of how to run one. It's not really a "green" ownership, meeting with the players without the coach, PR disasters, retaining Whaley and entering a rebuild/retool??, still no direction at QB, power struggle over TT between the HC and a GM stuck in self preservation mode? If Whaley still needs to lookout for his job and not spend 100% of his time, effort and resources building a team for the long term then we are heading towards that 20 year mark without playoffs. If the Pegula's believe in Whaley they stop this we are "close" rhetoric and commit to letting bozo run the show for a few more years. The Bills knew exactly what defense they were getting when they hired Rex. The Rex hire was the result of letting someone who knows nothing about football (Brandon), influence key decisions. The fact that his name is still appearing in the news with relation to football decisions is incredibly depressing.
Reed83HOF Posted March 4, 2017 Posted March 4, 2017 (edited) And this is what I have been saying for sometime, burn it all down; clean out all of Ralph's crap and start fresh. Doug should have gone with Rex and you could hit the reset button; this just kicks the can down the road a bit further where the next GM didn't choose McD as his coach. Clean house, dump TT, get rid of the older players (keep the core youth that we do have) eat a bad year with dead cap $, get a high pick next year and move on....We will see this play out 2 or three years from now most likely.... Edited March 4, 2017 by Reed83HOF
Wayne Arnold Posted March 4, 2017 Author Posted March 4, 2017 Last point I would like to make in this discussion is that 2018 December/2019 January is the right time to make a decision on Whaley. At that point he floats or plummets based on the Bills' record. 2019?!!
John from Riverside Posted March 4, 2017 Posted March 4, 2017 And this is what I have been saying for sometime, burn it all down; clean out all of Ralph's crap and start fresh. Doug should have gone with Rex and you could hit the reset button; this just kicks the can down the road a bit further where the next GM didn't choose McD as his coach. Clean house, dump TT, get rid of the older players (keep the core youth that we do have) eat a bad year with dead cap $, get a high pick next year and move on....We will see this play out 2 or three years from now most likely.... What if McD ends up being a excellent young coach......lots of football people have a high opinion of him
Reed83HOF Posted March 4, 2017 Posted March 4, 2017 What if McD ends up being a excellent young coach......lots of football people have a high opinion of him Oh I hope he does! The scenarios that occur when you retain a HC and dump the GM always raise the concerns that they will want to chose their own HC and they usually do. I think everyone knows/feels that Doug is on thin ice; when Doug is eventually canned now you are limiting yourself to GM who will want to have McD as his HC as opposed to a GM who can hire who wants.I am inclined to say that isn't necessarily a good thing since you are limiting your pool of candidates... 2019?!!
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 4, 2017 Posted March 4, 2017 Always a good idea to take some nerd's report as gospel. If it doesn't come from Schefter, Glazer, or Rapaport, don't believe it. The rest of the NFL media is garbage.
Bill from NYC Posted March 4, 2017 Posted March 4, 2017 I'm not some Whaley superfan. I just think when you have a fanbase split between tear down and reload the GM can't win. Whichever he does there is half the fan base who wants the opposite.That is certainly a solid point GB but check it out....Whaley traded away many of our draft picks and has doled out insane contracts. The clause he gave to Dareus, who lacks some impulse control, was criminal. Still, the team can't touch the playoffs. That is what I call doing a bad job. Hopefully he will be fired a day or so after the draft.
CommonCents Posted March 4, 2017 Posted March 4, 2017 What if McD ends up being a excellent young coach......lots of football people have a high opinion of him That's the hope John and ownership should be behind him 100 percent. We have seen what Whaley is as a gm, we already know about Russ Brandon's idiotic insight on Ryan. They can't speak about McD changing the culture and loving his attitude then pull the floor out on him at QB. Hopefully this is just more speculation being thrown about but it's very easy to paint a picture in which Whaley wants TT gone.
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 4, 2017 Posted March 4, 2017 That is certainly a solid point GB but check it out....Whaley traded away many of our draft picks and has doled out insane contracts. The clause he gave to Dareus, who lacks some impulse control, was criminal. Still, the team can't touch the playoffs. That is what I call doing a bad job. Hopefully he will be fired a day or so after the draft. If the Bills had a legit qb, they would be a playoff team. Tyrod is in a great situation for a qb and he's not good enough. Whaley gave Rex the #4 defense and he ruined it. Whaley sucks at press conferences but he has gotten plenty of talent here. But when you don't have a qb, every mistake gets magnified. The Pats have had just as many misses as the Bills but they have Brady. It's really that simple.
racketmaster Posted March 4, 2017 Posted March 4, 2017 Well said. And I'll add that these points support the idea that the bills may have an interest in Siemian. Perhaps Denison prefers Siemian but, absent that option, wants Tyrod. My guess would be that Dennison would prefer Taylor over Siemian with $ not being any factor. Personally, I like Taylor a lot more than Siemian who appears to be a low end starter or high end backup. Remember Siemian actually got to play with D. Thomas and E. Sanders all year. That makes a difference in the passing game where the Bills were shuttling wrs in and out each week. But getting back to the point, if Whaley forces McDermott/Dennison's hand and gets rid of Taylor than the coaches need a backup plan. That is where I think the Bills have been inquiring about Siemian's availability. If you can't have Taylor that Siemian at least would give the Bills a reliable QB who knows the system and is very cheap. He would probably be a bridge with the Bills drafting another QB. But I think if the coaching staff gets their way they would end up keeping Taylor. This debate is very interesting because both sides can make a good argument.
Bill from NYC Posted March 4, 2017 Posted March 4, 2017 (edited) The thing I can't get past is if Whaley is so steadfast in his belief that TT has to go as has been rumored since the Pittsburgh game, then why didn't he pull the chord the day after the season ended?It reminds me loosely of the time when Bledsoe lost to the Steelers and TD got SO mad at Bledsoe, he brought in the great JP Losman. Edited March 4, 2017 by Bill from NYC
FireChan Posted March 4, 2017 Posted March 4, 2017 It reminds me loosely of the time when Bledsoe lost to the Steelers and got SO mad at Bledsoe, he brought in the great JP Losman. More likely Mr. Snyder told him not to.
Bill from NYC Posted March 4, 2017 Posted March 4, 2017 If the Bills had a legit qb, they would be a playoff team. Tyrod is in a great situation for a qb and he's not good enough. Whaley gave Rex the #4 defense and he ruined it. Whaley sucks at press conferences but he has gotten plenty of talent here. But when you don't have a qb, every mistake gets magnified. The Pats have had just as many misses as the Bills but they have Brady. It's really that simple. What about the contracts CB? How many dumb contracts does BB hand out? How much cap space does NE have. How many draft picks does BB give away as compared to how many he reaps? One is a complete pro. The other is a rank amateur.
JohnC Posted March 4, 2017 Posted March 4, 2017 one issue with your Watkins vs QB scenario is, at the time, they thought they had their guy in the form of EJ, who showed flashes of it in his rookie year--the Carolina comeback game as just one example. In their minds, they were going after a true #1 WR to complement ej. I'm not saying they were correct, rather the context of the trade was done under THEIR belief they had the long term answer at QB. The EJ selection was simply a bad selection . He was a third to a fourth round talent who was taken in the first round. There is no circumstance in which that is a smart approach to take. Their thinking that EJ was a good prospect was a poor evaluation of the player, regardless of the position he played. When Marrone became the HC he looked at what he had and immediately determined that EJ was unfit as a franchise qb. Without question he has proven to be right. To this day that bad qb selection still plagues this franchise. The Bills should not have drafted a qb in the first round in the EJ draft class. That is not the case this year. If an organization that hasn't had a franchise qb for over twenty years is too afraid to take the plunge then they should give up and pursue another field of endeavor.
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 4, 2017 Posted March 4, 2017 What about the contracts CB? How many dumb contracts does BB hand out? How much cap space does NE have. How many draft picks does BB give away as compared to how many he reaps? One is a complete pro. The other is a rank amateur. Bill, they have Brady. Nothing else matters. We built a team around not having Brady. If we had a franchise qb, they would do different deals on other players. Look at the Pats draft history in the last 7 years. If the Bills and Pats switch qbs, the teams record are probably switched. That said, my biggest problem with Whaley is trading up for any non-qb. That should never happen. The EJ selection was simply a bad selection . He was a third to a fourth round talent who was taken in the first round. There is no circumstance in which that is a smart approach to take. Their thinking that EJ was a good prospect was a poor evaluation of the player, regardless of the position he played. When Marrone became the HC he looked at what he had and immediately determined that EJ was unfit as a franchise qb. Without question he has proven to be right. To this day that bad qb selection still plagues this franchise. The Bills should not have drafted a qb in the first round in the EJ draft class. That is not the case this year. If an organization that hasn't had a franchise qb for over twenty years is too afraid to take the plunge then they should give up and pursue another field of endeavor. John, Marrone was hired well before EJ was drafted.
major Posted March 4, 2017 Posted March 4, 2017 So Whaley has had a difficult time with the last two coaches and possibly this one about direction of team and Brandon is in this somehow. I don't care who wrote this piece, it's believable
JohnC Posted March 4, 2017 Posted March 4, 2017 (edited) Bill, they have Brady. Nothing else matters. We built a team around not having Brady. If we had a franchise qb, they would do different deals on other players. Look at the Pats draft history in the last 7 years. If the Bills and Pats switch qbs, the teams record are probably switched. That said, my biggest problem with Whaley is trading up for any non-qb. That should never happen. John, Marrone was hired well before EJ was drafted. EJ was a Nix selection with Whaley ranking the qbs that year. As I said in the prior post it didn't take long for Marrone to make an accurate judgment on EJ which turned out to be true. And again, as I previously stated EJ should have had a third or fourth round grade placed on him. The Bills took him in the first round. A poor decision that still hurts this troubled franchise. A fiasco is a fiasco. Edited March 4, 2017 by JohnC
C.Biscuit97 Posted March 4, 2017 Posted March 4, 2017 EJ was a Nix selection with Whaley ranking the qbs that year. As I said in the prior post it didn't take long for Marrone to make an accurate judgment on EJ which turned out to be true. And again, as I previously stated EJ should have had a third or fourth round grade placed on him. The Bills took him in the first round. A poor decision that still hurts this troubled franchise. A fiasco is a fiasco. You don't think Marrone didn't have a big say on EJ? Marrone was looking for his way out and just tried to win as many games rather than try to develop a qb.
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