4merper4mer Posted March 3, 2017 Posted March 3, 2017 For me the bottom line on all of this stuff is that the NFL....not the Bills, not the Browns, not TT, not any given TT alternative.....is broken. It is fine to say that TT or some other guy "won't get you where you need to go". It may even be true, but the underlying issue is that you can say that about most of the QBs in the league. The league is skewed toward "superstar" QBs right now through how rules are implemented, reputations of given players, the desire for marketable guys to go out and drive up overall NFL revenue. In a 22 position sport, in a 32 team league, you are absolutely screwed if you don't have a top 5 guy at one singular position.....and he better be able to sell stuff too. If you are Tom Brady, who is clearly a talented player who has developed his skills, you get to call your own penalties, as does Rodgers. Some others get the benefit of the doubt and some can be hit with blatant out of bounds cheap shots with no yellow in sight. The NFL decided that the QB was the quickest path to $$$$$ and certain QBs were quicker than others. I don't think it was even a conscience decision. It just sort of evolved bit by bit. It is now to the point where it can almost definitively be said that about 25 of the 32 starting QBs can "never win a SB". And that is probably a correct statement. That, my friends, is a broken system. I'm not saying the league needs to go out of it's way to help deficient QBs at all, but it needs to set a playing field that allows for each of the 32 teams to build their own strategy to win. It can't be "burn it all down to find the next great QB" as the strategy for everyone. Look at baseball lately. Small market Royals, Indians and some others rising to the very top but still contending with big market teams. Different strategic philosophies winning....and losing. A level playing field, even if skewed toward offense, in place. I don't know if baseball fixed their competitive issues proactively or some teams just figured out how to make it work, but it is very enjoyable lately. Football is becoming unwatchable and the NFL might soon be the NQL. This kind of thing happens in sports. IMHO it hurts. Even Michael Jordan, an undeniable all time great, IMO ran into this. He was fantastic. He built his reputation via his great play and it was a very exciting and entertaining. There is no denying this. Toward the end of his career, he got so much given to him because of his name. It wasn't just the push off against the Jazz which decided the NBA Finals. It was every game all season. If a ref dared called traveling against MJ....well never mind, that didn't happen. The NBA skyrocketed. That's what they wanted so more power to them, but even to this day the key to winning in the NBA is a cadre of Superstars....and they better have personality. That's bad enough in a sport that involves 5 players on the floor and a small roster. It is ridiculous in an 11 player sport with massive rosters. You can call the Spurs an exception and I might concede that point to an extent, but the NBA is absolutely storyline driven and superstar driven. It is not basketball driven. In summary, all of this manifests itself in a poor writer like Cosell not seeing the forest for the trees. His conclusion.....that Taylor isn't good enough and there is nobody who is draftable.....is written as a criticism of the Bills. That is ridiculous. Brady, Rodgers, nd Wilson are the only QBs currently "capable" of winning a SB. Other guys like Ryan, Cam, Carr, and maybe 2-3 more, are "maybes". That's it. Nobody on any other team or anyone in the draft from 300+ colleges can get the job done. That's a problem a lot bigger than Tyrod Taylor. Football is currently QB driven, not football driven. It was not always that way.
KHAN Posted March 3, 2017 Posted March 3, 2017 I would like to know Cosell's thoughts on Chad Kelly. He just said he hasn't "seen" Kelly yet because he's not at the combine on the John Murphy show.
jrober38 Posted March 3, 2017 Posted March 3, 2017 Cutting Taylor and signing some journeyman QB who can win us five games while saving us maybe $25 - $30 million bucks would make a lot more sense than keeping Tyrod, spending the extra $25 - $30 mill and winning seven or eight. Five games would have us drafting around third or fourth. Agreed. If the Bills are serious about having a promising future, they should tank this year by cutting Taylor, McCoy and Kyle, and trading Watkins. Without those four guys, we don't win 4 games next year and will have a good shot at the #1 overall pick. Darnold is the real deal. Do everything possible to get that guy and set yourself at the QB spot for the next 10+ years.
mannc Posted March 3, 2017 Posted March 3, 2017 Agreed. If the Bills are serious about having a promising future, they should tank this year by cutting Taylor, McCoy and Kyle, and trading Watkins. Without those four guys, we don't win 4 games next year and will have a good shot at the #1 overall pick. Darnold is the real deal. Do everything possible to get that guy and set yourself at the QB spot for the next 10+ years. And what will you do if Darnold decides he does not want to play for a tanking rust belt franchise and decides to return to USC?
jrober38 Posted March 3, 2017 Posted March 3, 2017 And what will you do if Darnold decides he does not want to play for a tanking rust belt franchise and decides to return to USC? Draft the best player available. The Bills are pretty much devoid of any elite young talent. We haven't drafted a difference maker in 5 years.
Wayne Arnold Posted March 3, 2017 Posted March 3, 2017 For folks not familiar with Greg Cosell: IMHO he is one of the pundits that is worth listening to. He knows his stuff and he isn't influenced by the fashion of the day. That said, his remarks have to be interpreted in the context of "freedom from accountability" enjoyed by all analysts. For example he rates this year's crop of QB here: http://www.latimes.com/sports/nfl/la-sp-nfl-combine-qb-prospects-20170302-story.html There isn't a one of them that he doesn't describe a flaw, possibly a deal-breaking flaw from the perspective of developing a long-term successful NFL QB. For calibration purposes, here is what he had to say pre-draft about EJM: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000148931/article/ej-manuel-offers-both-concerns-positives-cosell-says What did he say about Dak Prescott?
BarleyNY Posted March 3, 2017 Posted March 3, 2017 I actually respect Cosell's opinion But.....if I understand what he is saying - Tyrod is a starting qb but not a franchise qb (we all knew that) - The REPLACEMENT for Tyrod is not in this draft soooooo what are the bills supposed to do according to Cossel Play the long game, not the short one. Too much focus 2017. I'd like to see them strive for a SB in the coming seasons though, not just tread water for a few more seasons.
ndirish1978 Posted March 3, 2017 Posted March 3, 2017 (edited) His point is we can also see what Taylor is , Cosell's believes he will not improve on his short comings. Then why would you keep him. Try somebody else . Glennon , foles ect. the difference between winning 6 or 7 games means nothing but you might find someone that can win more. Neither of those players are breakout franchise QBs. Pass I don't disagree, but unless you're convinced Cardale is the answer I don't see why we should jettison a competent QB. Well, we don't know if Cardale is the answer. I suppose we won't really know until he plays. What we do know is that TT is an average game manager and is not a gamechanger that will bring you back in must-win situations. Also, there are cap implications this year that actually make the money aspect relevant What are we saving cap for? What's the point if the team fields a worse QB? The cap increases every year. Tyrods cap hit will be minuscule by next year.... and it's not even bad this year. That's true, but in order to get to next year we need to be able to re-sign young players like Z.Brown and pick up competent FAs. If Tyrod isn't "the guy" and you are likely to lose players at other positions that could be core guys for this team, why would you spend that amount of cap space just to keep a placeholder who isn't really a difference-maker. I am not advocating keeping or cutting TT, I think i've been pretty clear i don't care either way because he isn't a difference maker, but I do think that you have to ackowledge that keeping him THIS year will likely make us a worse team this year. Edited March 3, 2017 by ndirish1978
Wayne Arnold Posted March 3, 2017 Posted March 3, 2017 And what will you do if Darnold decides he does not want to play for a tanking rust belt franchise and decides to return to USC? Then either draft Mason Rudolph or Luke Falk or Josh Rosen or Wilton Speight or the next prospect that blows up in 2018. Or tank again and select Darnold in 2019.
jrober38 Posted March 3, 2017 Posted March 3, 2017 Then either draft Mason Rudolph or Luke Falk or Josh Rosen or Wilton Speight or the next prospect that blows up in 2018. Or tank again and select Darnold in 2019. Exactly. The point is this team isn't ready to win. The foundation of high paid mercenaries isn't sustainable. The Bills need to clear cap space and nail 2-3 years of draft picks to properly rebuild. The last 4 years of drafting has accomplished nothing and the result has been a team going backwards in the standings. 9 wins, then 8 wins, and now 7. The 2013 draft class is completely gone (unbelievable), the 2014 class has proven not good enough, and the 2015 class has provided very little. In the NFL, unless you draft well, or have a Hall of Famer at QB, you cannot compete without being highly successful in the draft. Being really bad and acquire some legit blue chip talent isn't a bad thing.
K-9 Posted March 3, 2017 Posted March 3, 2017 Neither of those players are breakout franchise QBs. Pass Well, we don't know if Cardale is the answer. I suppose we won't really know until he plays. What we do know is that TT is an average game manager and is not a gamechanger that will bring you back in must-win situations. Also, there are cap implications this year that actually make the money aspect relevant That's true, but in order to get to next year we need to be able to re-sign young players like Z.Brown and pick up competent FAs. If Tyrod isn't "the guy" and you are likely to lose players at other positions that could be core guys for this team, why would you spend that amount of cap space just to keep a placeholder who isn't really a difference-maker. I am not advocating keeping or cutting TT, I think i've been pretty clear i don't care either way because he isn't a difference maker, but I do think that you have to ackowledge that keeping him THIS year will likely make us a worse team this year. Difference maker is a key term here. I've asked the question, how much of a difference maker will TT be? The answer, based on his body of work, is "not much." It seems McD and Co. feel the same way after their in depth analysis.
ndirish1978 Posted March 3, 2017 Posted March 3, 2017 Difference maker is a key term here. I've asked the question, how much of a difference maker will TT be? The answer, based on his body of work, is "not much." It seems McD and Co. feel the same way after their in depth analysis. I understand there is an argument that the low-risk, low-turnover guy, but that kind of game manager ONLY works if you can jump out to an early lead and your D can help you protect that lead. We have 4, possibly 5 GLARING holes on D: SS, FS CB1, WLB, maybeSLB/MLB (we don't know what position Ragland will man in this D and don't know how his knee will bounce back). Our D simply isn't in a place at this moment where we can be expected to shut people down at any stage of the game and we will likely wind up playing from behind a lot of the time. Look at a guy like Favre. He made stupid mistakes and obviously costs his teams games because of those mistakes, but if you were within 2 scores with 5-6 minutes left in the game, you knew you still had a chance to win. Can anyone say they feel that way about TT? Cause we could be down by 3 with a single possession left and I'm more confident he would just go 3 and out with at least one check down pass to a running back who has a man directly on top of him to keep the clock running.
mannc Posted March 3, 2017 Posted March 3, 2017 TT had 4 years of getting used to the NFL. It's an advantage. Where he was drafted matters quite a bit because one was good enough and showed enough in college to be worth the #1 pick. Jameis on tape is a much better QB. He makes some bad decisions, but he's decisive, he throws from the pocket regularly, steps into his throws etc. He's a much better QB. He's a worse wildcat Brad Smith type RB than Tyrod though, I'll give you that. Jameis is three inches taller than Tyrod, which is one of the major reasons he was the number 1 pick and Tyrod wasn't. If Winston is so much better on tape (I'll have to take your word for it), it hasn't been borne out by the statistics. And then there is the fact that Winston is now, and always has been, a knucklehead and a potential embarrassment to whichever organization he is affiliated with, while Tyrod has been a consummate pro and leader .
FireChan Posted March 3, 2017 Posted March 3, 2017 Jameis is three inches taller than Tyrod, which is one of the major reasons he was the number 1 pick and Tyrod wasn't. If Winston is so much better on tape (I'll have to take your word for it), it hasn't been borne out by the statistics. And then there is the fact that Winston is now, and always has been, a knucklehead and a potential embarrassment to whichever organization he is affiliated with, while Tyrod has been a consummate pro and leader . Positive PR is irrelevant. Every pro personnel guy in the NFL would take Winston over TT tomorrow.
row_33 Posted March 3, 2017 Posted March 3, 2017 I doubt they move on. That would have been a great day on the BBMB if they announced Tyrod was put on an ice floe.
rm -rf /* Posted March 3, 2017 Posted March 3, 2017 I actually respect Cosell's opinion But.....if I understand what he is saying - Tyrod is a starting qb but not a franchise qb (we all knew that) - The REPLACEMENT for Tyrod is not in this draft soooooo what are the bills supposed to do according to Cossel Start Cardale and tank it. Get one of the 5 starting caliber QB's in next years draft. 86 Shady while you are at it.
moshermw Posted March 3, 2017 Posted March 3, 2017 So cut our QB and nobody is available on the draft to help? Just give up? Would he like Pegula to sell the team to Bon Jersey too? He may or may not be right about TT, but one thing for sure is that he is a national media guy doing the bidding of large market owners and running down the Bills all the time. Let me guess......if the Pats ke JG....genius! If they trade him.....genius! If they let him walk in a year.......genius! Players that without question could play there part on a SB winning team: Watkins, Tyrod, Shady, Glenn, incog, Dareus, Miller, Clay, Kyle, assuming Shaq, P Brown, Darby, Wood or Groy are not stars but not everyone will be. That is 12 of 22 starting positions, without including pending FA like Gilmore and And Woods and without thinking hard. There are guys I left off that could easily step up. Only one of those guys is old and a couple others are getting there. To blow that up would be a disgrace. FIFY
zow2 Posted March 3, 2017 Posted March 3, 2017 It amazes me how many people in Buffalo just accept a "tank" mentality. I hate it. This town really deserves losing teams with that kind of thinking. Be Good. Be as good as the team can possibly be. No reason to waste a season or multiple seasons of peoples lives and careers by losing on purpose....not to mention the ticket buying public wasting their money. I'd keep Tyrod as my starter. There's no one BETTER to replace him yet. Draft a guy and keep developing Cardale. maybe one of them can supplant Tyrod in the future. If everyone loves Darnold so much then by all means, after he declares trade the entire next two drafts to get him. But don't lose on purpose now in the hopes things miraculously work out. They don't. Ask Pegula and the Sabres.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted March 3, 2017 Posted March 3, 2017 Cause we could be down by 3 with a single possession left and I'm more confident he would just go 3 and out with at least one check down pass to a running back who has a man directly on top of him to keep the clock running. This may be the most sensible thing you've ever posted. Ever.
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