Over 29 years of fanhood Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Paying Lorax while letting Gilmore walk over $2M will be the last straw for Whales. Over $2M- Is that it? I find that hard to believe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 (edited) What numbers? That he was targeted less than everyone on the list yet surrendered more yards then every single one of them? Did you see our schedule in 2016? We faced Ryan Fitzpatrick x2, Ryan tannehill, matt Moore, rg3, jacoby brissett, case keenum, Blake bortles, Colin keepenick. Carson palmer wasn't a good qb this year. Joe flacco is meh. Andy dalton is andy dalton. Brady, Carr, Big Ben, Russell Wilson are legit. Big Ben played in awful conditions and was inept. Gilmore was good overall. In a handful of games I would consider his play below average to poor. After watching every game (as always) I would not consider Gilmores play last year very good. Can he be very good? Absolutely. He was not in 2016. https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-top-nfl-cornerbacks-set-to-hit-free-agency/ "While he earned a lower grade in the 2016 season than most other CBs on this list, his larger body of work elevates him to the top of the ranking." Out of the top 10 ranked free agent CBs this year, his rating was lower than everyone except Sterling Moore, whom we cut. Gilmores rating was 73.2. Moores was 72.3. I wouldn't consider that very good. He allowed the second fewest TD's and was right in the middle with passer rating allowed. PFF is witchcraft and quite flawed. Edited March 2, 2017 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webster Guy Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 22 roster spots to fill due to free agency. We have less cap room than over 2/3 of the league. Paying a pretty good CB like he's a top 5 cb would be a mistake imo. The 13-15 mill we'd have spent on him can be used to add 2 very good players. Major holes at Safety, WR, RT, LB and overall depth make it nearly impossible to pony up that kid of money for one player that wasn't one of the best in the league. Don't get me wrong, I do like Gilmore and I do think he's a good cb. Just don't think he's worth the price tag considering our current cap/roster situation. Too many holes too fill and not enough resources to fill them with. Agreed. I would take it one step further and say Gilmore is significantly overrated. By all accounts he has zero locker room presence or leadership skills, his coverage is pretty good but far too inconsistent to be considered elite (if he's not holding, the receiver is usually open), and his run support is Deon Sanders 2.0. If we start the year with Darby n Seymour with Robey as the nickel corner I would happy with that, considering it would give us the ability to retain some quality versatile dudes like Robert Woods and get a proven safety in free agency, possibly a durable WR that we know will last 16 games in a row. I don't blame Gilmore for going to get his big payday, but not with us. We aren't currently structured to retain him, as I'm sure Overdorf is telling Leslie Fraser every day.... You watch Seymour have a great offseason and camp (like he did last year as a clueless rookie), come in for his sophomore year and kick a$$ baby !!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Agreed. I would take it one step further and say Gilmore is significantly overrated. By all accounts he has zero locker room presence or leadership skills, his coverage is pretty good but far too inconsistent to be considered elite (if he's not holding, the receiver is usually open), and his run support is Deon Sanders 2.0. If we start the year with Darby n Seymour with Robey as the nickel corner I would happy with that, considering it would give us the ability to retain some quality versatile dudes like Robert Woods and get a proven safety in free agency, possibly a durable WR that we know will last 16 games in a row. I don't blame Gilmore for going to get his big payday, but not with us. We aren't currently structured to retain him, as I'm sure Overdorf is telling Leslie Fraser every day.... You watch Seymour have a great offseason and camp (like he did last year as a clueless rookie), come in for his sophomore year and kick a$$ baby !!!!! If Gilmore does go elsewhere (which I hope he does) it would be a mistake for Whaley to head into next season with what you listed above. The FA market and draft both have an unusual amount of talent at CB. The position is too important to ignore and the talent is there to address the loss of Gilmore if it should happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 He allowed the second fewest TD's and was right in the middle with passer rating allowed. PFF is witchcraft and quite flawed. Quite informative. Thanks. Gilmore was not "very good" last season. Like I've said. I really like Gilmore. Prior to this season, I would've been pissed if we let Gilmore walk. After watching his play in 2016, my thoughts have changed. I would've been ok with franchising him as I don't like letting good players go. Gilmore is a good player, no question about that imo. The real issue is that keeping him means we lose good playerS. We are going to lose key contributors this offseason. Letting him go allows us to keep (or acquire) more players. IMO, 13-15 mill a year is just too much for a player that had the season he had in 2016. He wasn't THAT good. He's never been THAT good. 10-11 mill, I could deal with, just not the 13-15 he wants. Too many holes to fill. Not enough resources to fill them. Sign him and other positions will be severely lacking and our depth will be zilch If Gilmore does go elsewhere (which I hope he does) it would be a mistake for Whaley to head into next season with what you listed above. The FA market and draft both have an unusual amount of talent at CB. The position is too important to ignore and the talent is there to address the loss of Gilmore if it should happen. Agreed. If Gilmore leaves, we will most definitely add one or two Cbs to the mix that will compete for serious playing time. If not, we're in trouble. Would be nice to trade down and grab a CB along with another pick or 2. Then maybe we could start a CB that isn't a matador vs the run. Watching Gilmore play the run this season made me ill on too many occasions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Allan in MD Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Paying Lorax while letting Gilmore walk over $2M will be the last straw for Whales. Gilmore will walk better than he tackles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeF Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 $1.2M is not situational pass rusher money; in fact it's closer to twice that. $5M is probably fair for a guy coming off of a 13-sack season. Dwight Freeney played for $1 million last year.....Lorax is old...the 13 sack season was an anomaly or will be viewed that way by most teams. But all it takes is one.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 He allowed the second fewest TD's and was right in the middle with passer rating allowed. PFF is witchcraft and quite flawed. why s it about Gilmore now ? But you are correct about PFF at times and how they calculate. Divining with chicken bones perhaps? Gilmore will walk better than he tackles. fine wit. for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregsbills 74 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 You can never underestimate the role of leadership on a team. For the ones who've been through the trials of competition. Those few, who show the strength to lead and set by example, should be rewarded. Alexander is not "fools gold". Alexander is a player in which fans of the Buffalo Bills wish we had more of. Period Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmur66 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Lorenzo Alexander has heart and never quit. It showed at the end of last year when it was clear the Bills were going nowhere. Gilmore not so much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pbomb Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Why do people want to get rid of players just because they are old: kyle, mccoy for a rb, and lorax. Why dont we wait til their play actually starts to decline, all three had arguably their best seasons. I remember we got rid of fat pat williams causd he was old, went on to dominate in minnesota for years. While i agree we shouldnt overpay for lorax if he will resign for 3-6 mil a year why wouldnt you, great leadership & effort and he produces. Also depth as a edgerusher which after shaq and hughes we have none Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 why s it about Gilmore now ? But you are correct about PFF at times and how they calculate. Divining with chicken bones perhaps? fine wit. for sure. Because our Gilmore offer + Lorax offer ='s Gilmore's demands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Why do people want to get rid of players just because they are old: kyle, mccoy for a rb, and lorax. Why dont we wait til their play actually starts to decline, all three had arguably their best seasons. I remember we got rid of fat pat williams causd he was old, went on to dominate in minnesota for years. While i agree we shouldnt overpay for lorax if he will resign for 3-6 mil a year why wouldnt you, great leadership & effort and he produces. Also depth as a edgerusher which after shaq and hughes we have nonespeaking of edge rusher depth, I'm pretty sure that's why they talking to his agent. He would prefer to stay in Buffalo as he's said many times. He's going to be best in a rotation vs as a starter at his age but can still play and has versatility. Plus the intangibles. Any time you are looking at depth at a certain position, ST ability comes into play and he has that in spades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 lorax is a solid above average player we'd be lucky to sign him i'd go 3yr $15 mil get out after 2 years with zero dead money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Paying Lorax while letting Gilmore walk over $2M will be the last straw for Whales.Do you really think that Gilmore wants to play in Buffalo? I am totally unimpressed by Whaley but I can't in good faith blame him if Gilmore walks. In fact, I would credit him, but that's another story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Do you really think that Gilmore wants to play in Buffalo? I am totally unimpressed by Whaley but I can't in good faith blame him if Gilmore walks. In fact, I would credit him, but that's another story. If Gilmore continues to play at a top 10 level for 5 years, i will certainly not praise him. I think he wants to get paid like his play and he doesn't particularly care. We've already spent a top 10 pick on him, and got a top 10 player at his position, who has been relatively healthy. That's a guy you pay. Not to mention, your newfound credit to Whales will dry up considerably when he uses another top 10 pick on a DB to shore up the secondary in the wake of his departure. I'd rather pay Gilmore and draft a QB than let Gilly go and draft Lattimore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 If Gilmore continues to play at a top 10 level for 5 years, i will certainly not praise him. I think he wants to get paid like his play and he doesn't particularly care. We've already spent a top 10 pick on him, and got a top 10 player at his position, who has been relatively healthy. That's a guy you pay. Not to mention, your newfound credit to Whales will dry up considerably when he uses another top 10 pick on a DB to shore up the secondary in the wake of his departure. I'd rather pay Gilmore and draft a QB than let Gilly go and draft Lattimore. Supposedly, this draft is very deep at cb. If it is, why jump at #10? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Supposedly, this draft is very deep at cb. If it is, why jump at #10? Don't ask me. I, like you, have watched this team for too long. A CB at 10 with Gilmore's departure is a movie we've all seen before. Which is why I'd rather pay him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PO16FFS Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 SG was not good in 2016. SG doesnt care. SG cant tackle. SG got whipped by HOGAN and FITZ! GTFO all you SG LOVERS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Don't ask me. I, like you, have watched this team for too long. A CB at 10 with Gilmore's departure is a movie we've all seen before. Which is why I'd rather pay him. What you're failing to touch on is our resources. Letting a CB go via free agency and spending a first rd pick to replace him is getting us nowhere, is basically what you're saying, right? What's not being said is that we are going to use the 13-15 million we would've spent on Gilmore on the positions we would've spent our draft picks on. Only instead of getting one player for 13-25 million, we will have 2-3 players. It's a numbers game. And right now we have MANY free agents that either started or played significant snaps. How do we replace them if we use over half of our cap room on 1 player? We can't. We'd have the worst depth in the league. The league in which injuries are the norm and depth is necessary. While I would like to keep Gilmore, the numbers game just doesn't match up. No matter how you spin it, there's no way we can pay Gilmore what he wants and fill out the roster with solid players, unless we hit on all of our draft picks and minimum salary free agents. The likelihood of that happening is close to zero imo. We can't put ourselves in a position where we have little to no cap room in a year or 2, just like we are this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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