FireChan Posted March 1, 2017 Posted March 1, 2017 Thank you! It's weird but this is like a "dirty little secret" to a huge number of Bills Fans. Whaley tried hard to keep both of these sub-par players. Some folks just don't believe the process matters. And they wonder why we lose.
GunnerBill Posted March 1, 2017 Posted March 1, 2017 Thank you! It's weird but this is like a "dirty little secret" to a huge number of Bills Fans. Whaley tried hard to keep both of these sub-par players. No he didn't. He placed a value on them and stood steadfastly to it. I have seen the rumours around what they would have paid Spiller and I confess that I am glad that didn't happen. The Byrd one.... I think at the right price I'd have brought him back too. But he was never worth the $8m a year plus that he wanted (the price the Bills wanted him at was basically the contract they gave to Aaron Williams) and in chasing the maximum dollar he took himself to a place where he was never a good fit for the defense and sucked badly. He earned himself $28m out of it though.... I'd still take Byrd back too at a cheap deal.
CommonCents Posted March 1, 2017 Posted March 1, 2017 No he didn't. He placed a value on them and stood steadfastly to it. I have seen the rumours around what they would have paid Spiller and I confess that I am glad that didn't happen. The Byrd one.... I think at the right price I'd have brought him back too. But he was never worth the $8m a year plus that he wanted (the price the Bills wanted him at was basically the contract they gave to Aaron Williams) and in chasing the maximum dollar he took himself to a place where he was never a good fit for the defense and sucked badly. He earned himself $28m out of it though.... I'd still take Byrd back too at a cheap deal. He put a value on Spiller/Byrd both of whom have proved to be not very good football players and certainly not worth their price. In both cases Whaley got lucky that the players didn't accept the offers. We all know that, and it's easy to say whew "got lucky there". It is lunacy to use those players as examples of Whaley's good doing for the Bills organization, that's what was going on above and surely you see that.
GunnerBill Posted March 1, 2017 Posted March 1, 2017 (edited) He put a value on Spiller/Byrd both of whom have proved to be not very good football players and certainly not worth their price. In both cases Whaley got lucky that the players didn't accept the offers. We all know that, and it's easy to say whew "got lucky there". It is lunacy to use those players as examples of Whaley's good doing for the Bills organization, that's what was going on above and surely you see that. I think we got lucky on Spiller - 100%. Shady McCoy should not drop into a team's lap like that. Luckily Chip hasn't got a clue about the NFL. If the Spiller deal had been $5m I am sure I would now be slamming that contract. I am not sure I agree on Byrd. I think Byrd would have continued to be a good player in our defense (particularly under Schwartz, less so under Rex) and there was a value at which bringing him back was the right thing to do. Whaley got to that value and wouldn't go higher. Same as we did previously on Levitre. I don't think the two cases are the same at all. Edited March 1, 2017 by GunnerBill
CommonCents Posted March 1, 2017 Posted March 1, 2017 I think we got lucky on Spiller - 100%. Shady McCoy should not drop into a team's lap like that. Luckily Chip hasn't got a clue about the NFL. If the Spiller deal had been $5m I am sure I would now be slamming that contract. I am not sure I agree on Byrd. I think Byrd would have continued to be a good player in our defense (particularly under Schwartz, less so under Rex) and there was a value at which bringing him back was the right thing to do. Whaley got to that value and wouldn't go higher. Same as we did previously on Levitre. I don't think the two cases are the same at all. I'm just going by what Byrd did once he signed his deal and not projecting him back into a defense that was dismantled soon after his departure. Byrd strikes me as a guy that has his health and savings account 1 and 2 and winning a distant 3rd. That's fine, probably a smart approach but not a guy an NFL team would benefit from signing long term. I think he got lucky in both cases but I won't go in circles with it. Another important point you make is that Whaley sticks to his perceived value of FA's which is one of the few things I like about Doug.
GunnerBill Posted March 1, 2017 Posted March 1, 2017 I'm just going by what Byrd did once he signed his deal and not projecting him back into a defense that was dismantled soon after his departure. Byrd strikes me as a guy that has his health and savings account 1 and 2 and winning a distant 3rd. That's fine, probably a smart approach but not a guy an NFL team would benefit from signing long term. I think he got lucky in both cases but I won't go in circles with it. Another important point you make is that Whaley sticks to his perceived value of FA's which is one of the few things I like about Doug. After a horrible first year in NO where he only managed 4 games Byrd has actually played at a reasonable level the last 2 years. Not a $8.75m level safety.... he should never have been that in the first place.... but he has been an above average starter in a mess of a defense. That is why I think the Byrd case is different to Spiller. I think there was a price where Jairus Byrd is a value NFL starting safety. I don't think there is a price at which Spiller is a bell cow running back.
BillsFan2313 Posted March 1, 2017 Posted March 1, 2017 Spiller's market rate has always been and is zero dollars to anyone with eyes. The only reason we didn't sign CJ was because drunk Chip called Doug. Andy Reid doesn't have eyes now? Thank you! It's weird but this is like a "dirty little secret" to a huge number of Bills Fans. Whaley tried hard to keep both of these sub-par players. Wait, wait, wait. We are grilling the guy for sub par players that didn't end up back with the Bills? No he didn't. He placed a value on them and stood steadfastly to it. I have seen the rumours around what they would have paid Spiller and I confess that I am glad that didn't happen. The Byrd one.... I think at the right price I'd have brought him back too. But he was never worth the $8m a year plus that he wanted (the price the Bills wanted him at was basically the contract they gave to Aaron Williams) and in chasing the maximum dollar he took himself to a place where he was never a good fit for the defense and sucked badly. He earned himself $28m out of it though.... I'd still take Byrd back too at a cheap deal. I think their is a good chance of this happening. He fits McDermott's scheme and his dad is on board. Wouldn't shock me at all.
aristocrat Posted March 1, 2017 Posted March 1, 2017 it's like elway who offered osweiler huge money but is now a genius because he didn't sign him.
P51 Posted March 1, 2017 Posted March 1, 2017 (edited) I like this approach. Get Kirkpatrick (or even bring back Cockrell) and draft Adams in the 1st. No need to break the bank to the tune of 14 million a year on a guy (Gillmore) who only plays 100% sometimes. Use the savings to keep other important guys (Zac Brown, Gory, even keeping R. Woods would be nice). The good thing with this draft is that there will be options even into the mid rounds with starters at CB and to a slightly lesser degree S's, zone corners in FA seem to be a little cheaper and Cockrell could be an interesting match as well. I like that the Bills are sticking to their guns with Gilmore, have a value on him and are sticking to it or dont view him as a schematic fit and arent trying to overpay to fit a square peg in a round hole potentially. I like the idea of spreading out Gilmores money to bring back 3 starters or to sign a corner and safety in FA, seems smart to me, not overpaying him should allow for greater roster flexibility, financially. The secondary as it is shaping up to be needs reinforcements badly at CB and S, it could become the worst secondary in the league in a hurry. If they want to compete next year they need to address it in the offseason with several new pieces with Gilmore in all likely hood leaving, AWill's health being a real concern and Graham being on his last legs and probably a depth player at this point in his career. Im not sure Darby fits either... Edited March 1, 2017 by P51
FireChan Posted March 1, 2017 Posted March 1, 2017 Andy Reid doesn't have eyes now? Wait, wait, wait. We are grilling the guy for sub par players that didn't end up back with the Bills? He wanted him back. CJ will be horrible in KC, just like everywhere else. So yes.
RussellDopeland Posted March 1, 2017 Posted March 1, 2017 Maybe they now cut Shady as well. That would be stupendous, insomuch as it would give Whaley and the imbeciles in this front office "flexibility" (i.e, they could invest their number one pick on either a RB or CB!!!) Another RB or CB in the first round!!!! YIPEE! How many times has this franchise pulled this type of crap?
ALF Posted March 1, 2017 Posted March 1, 2017 At least the Bills will get a 3rd comp pick next year depending on FAs that come here . I don't see a run for a WC this season , player turnover , new coaches , playbooks. It's the start of a rebuild jmo
26CornerBlitz Posted March 1, 2017 Posted March 1, 2017 @ChrisBrownBills http://Buffalobills.com has confirmed the franchise tag will not be used on Stephon Gilmore. The lines of communication will be open. #Bills
Bill from NYC Posted March 1, 2017 Posted March 1, 2017 Wait, wait, wait. We are grilling the guy for sub par players that didn't end up back with the Bills?Yes, I am. He tried to bring back sub-par players. Are you ready to excuse all of the dumb moves by Whaley? If he was any good, his teams would win more football games. it's like elway who offered osweiler huge money but is now a genius because he didn't sign him.Excellent analogy.
eball Posted March 1, 2017 Posted March 1, 2017 If he was any good, his teams would win more football games. Bill, you surely know how naive a statement that is. Anyway, congratulations on getting your wish of no tag on Gilmore!
BillsFan2313 Posted March 1, 2017 Posted March 1, 2017 (edited) Yes, I am. He tried to bring back sub-par players. Are you ready to excuse all of the dumb moves by Whaley? If he was any good, his teams would win more football games. Excellent analogy. Did it happen? No? Case closed, sorry. I am not excusing anything, but ragging on the guy for people who aren't on the team is just dumb and a waste of time. Edited March 1, 2017 by Deceptikhans
FireChan Posted March 1, 2017 Posted March 1, 2017 Did it happen? No? Case closed, sorry. I am not excusing anything, but ragging on the guy for people who aren't on the team is just dumb and a waste of time. Grigson drafted the best QB in the NFL. He must be a really good GM.
Santana Posted March 1, 2017 Posted March 1, 2017 Stephon Gilmore is overrated IMO, I know the numbers tell a different story but I don't really see him being worth $15-18mil per year.
MarkyMannn Posted March 1, 2017 Posted March 1, 2017 I think Gilmore is gone. Now that he can talk to maybe a dozen teams looking for a CB, someone will offer crazy money we can't match and then bye bye
ThrowingFitz Posted March 1, 2017 Posted March 1, 2017 How do people come up with statements like this? Based on what? From day one at the draft, Gilmore has never displayed any enthusiasm for being a Bill. I thought the guy was gonna start crying when he found out where he was going. He has talent but doesn't play with any kind of intensity on the field. He basically seems disconnected from the team as he gives up on plays. His tackling has always been sloppy. He injured his shoulder a while back because of sloppy tackling. If he didn't have one good game this year his stats would of been rather average for CB's. Which is exactly what he is.
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