My sources- Lesean McCoy will no longer be a Buffalo Bill

[Deranged Rhino]

Ok, don't have time to read all 15 pages...so apologize if this was already asked and answered.

 

How much do we save if we cut him? Doesn't seem like much which then makes me wonder why we would cut a guy as talented as him if it doesn't save us money.

 

Not much savings if he's cut this year. If they cut him before March 9th they take a 5+ million cap hit. If they cut him after March 9th they save around 250,000 per JB's article a few weeks ago: http://www.wkbw.com/sports/bills/salary-cap-consequences-if-bills-were-to-cut-mccoy

 

(Ignore, wrong info.)

 

Next year is where it's easier to walk away and the savings would be much greater.

 

Outright cutting him makes zero sense, even in "rebuild" mode. If they're rebuilding, he's an asset which has trade value. Trading him for something is much more plausible -- though I think equally as unlikely at the moment.

 

even if it did save us money...why do some want to get rid of our best offensive player?

 

Because I hear he only plays hard on nationally televised games.

Edited February 27, 2017 by Deranged Rhino

[K-9]

Edited

 

Yeah, that's a misrepresentation. His dead cap is 7.8M no matter what...

 

This comes from his ~13M signing bonus, of which there is 3 years at ~2.6M left in amortized cap hits...The only way the Bills could get out of that cap hit was if they could nullify some of his signing bonus (basically he has to kill someone). Cutting the best player on the team, when you've already paid for a good portion of his contract, makes little sense.

 

You are throwing out 7.875M of money already paid to McCoy. You'd be saving his 6.25M salary+bonus this year...but you'd be dumping that ~8M in the garbage...Not to mention losing one of the best offensive players in the league..."Savings".

Take it up with Jay Skurski who should then take it up with NFL.com because he based his article something they reported. I don't care one way or the other; I'm just offering clarification on where the idea for cutting Shady was first widely mentioned.

[BADOLBILZ]

If you had to pick one because of the ramifications for the cap, who would you take: McCoy or Alshon Jeffrey? Just throwing it out there.

 

Jeffrey is off the table for me unless cheap and short term due to his suspension.......so I assume he goes back to Chicago.

 

One year for one year......no doubt I'd take the chance on Jeffrey though.

 

A playmaking WR is far more valuable than a playmaking RB.

 

RB production comes from the draft, free agency, the street......you name it.

 

Finding the combination of athletic traits and ball skills to be a special WR is tougher and you need more of them.

[Coach Tuesday]

 

 

The total rebuild stuff is nonsense.

 

Competent organizations can retool on the go and you'd have to assume that Whaley and McDermott consider themselves competent, regardless of what anyone else thinks.

 

True, but much easier to rebuild on the go when you have a franchise QB in place.

[K-9]

 

 

 

 

 

 

The "I knew he had a shoulder injury crowd" did not know it required surgery.

 

The severity of it became an issue at the combine.

 

Not all lingering injuries require surgery.........see Thurman Thomas knee injury coming out of Oklahoma State for an example.......NEVER had surgery to repair the torn ligament.

 

The point is that the story blew up later and Whaley had even denied it needed surgery so clearly they weren't certain of the extent......otherwise they wouldn't have let him re-injure it in practice before surgery.

Does that "I knew he had a shoulder injury crowd" that didn't know required surgery include the scouting community that was well onto it long before the combine?

 

The "severity" of it came into question at the combine only in terms of what the various medical opinions suggested the best course of treatment should be relative to when the surgery should be performed. Your comparison to Thurman's knee injury aside, surgery is the most common repair for that type of shoulder injury; there is no just no better way to tighten the joint. And it was on Lawson's radar going back to his freshman year. It was always only a question of when.

 

If Whaley denied he would need surgery at some point, he lied. But I don't think he did. He, like the medical staff that advised him, thought it could wait until after his rookie season. A reasonable expectation given his ability to perform at a high level while playing through it in college.

 

Either way, it was gonna be a PR schit storm. Especially in this market.

[John from Riverside]

I still say that it makes no financial sense to release Shady....and I will believe it when i see it

[K-9]

 

You are essentially wrong. Yoyo and 26BF very often link stories from the front page that they feel will generate clicks and discussion.

 

And a lot of people that come here ASSUME that is going to be the case so they bypass the front......assuming that they are getting the unfiltered news right here on TSW.

 

But they kinda' bit hard on the Shady takes........so even a hushed whisper that I might have been right would be soul crushing to them........so they didn't link it for discussion even though they knew it would heat up like this thread did.

 

Hence the stunned outrage and denials weeks later about cap savings etc. by those that come here assuming that their assigned linksters are on top of the game.

 

And btw......the twin bro of the border agent that intrigues you so much sits in one of the bank boxes near Pegula's at midfield every week.......perhaps you know him and have met his brother and didn't know it all this time.

Essentially wrong. Interesting. I don't compare everything pinned to the main board with everything Yolo, CB22, and others post links to in the forum, so I wouldn't know for sure. I'm grateful for the links, regardless. Sounds like you have a beef with them for some reason and I'm not really interested in why that may be. Doesn't matter.

 

And what, Pat Moran is above getting his balls busted in a fan forum? I have great respect for border agents, etc. and it's too bad Moran's quest to sensationalize their work led to his unfortunate quote about running over his own daughter, but c'mon. Then again, I'm not sure I'm comfortable with the idea of border agents leaking their work place experience just for the sake of sensationalism, either. Regardless, busting Moran's chops has nothing to do with that.

[BADOLBILZ]

 

The time line of badol's shady hate:

 

When the trade went down:

*Shady's hit the wall and is over the hill and isn't worth Kiko straight up.

*Shady is not an elite RB and never will be again.

*The contract is a disaster (the ONLY point he has that has merit -- though not much of one)

*Shady will not just be off the team, but out of the league before he turns 30 and working in radio.

 

During his first season:

*The hamstring injury is proof that he's done, he'll never be a top RB while in Buffalo. He's hit the wall.

(suddenly Shady starts to play well when healthy and that morphed to...)

*Shady only plays hard during nationally televised games.

*Badol was so confident by the end of the year that Shady would be cut this offseason (meaning the one we're currently in) he made, and then backed out of, three bets about that very thing.

 

During this last season:

*Shady's good but TD Mike would be doing the same thing, look at that YPC!

*Shady's good but the only reason he's playing this well is because of Taylor's impact on the running game, hey did you look at Mike's YPC!

*Shady's good -- like I always said he was -- RB's just aren't important enough to pay.

 

Badol's allowed his personal distaste of a player to cloud his initial judgment when the trade went down, and then instead of coping to his mistake, he proceeded to double down on that terrible, terrible, poorly formed take by letting his narcissistic need to be right above all else (even on a message board where he reminds us every day "it's just a hobby" and how he "doesn't care what people think") supersede the evidence on the field.

 

He knows the game, has good takes from time to time, Badol's just completely dishonest about McCoy and completely lacks a sense of humor about the topic.

 

That makes threads like this one hilarious -- even if the OP turns out to be accurate.

 

 

 

Here's what happened:

 

You were singing the praises of the Shady trade and extension.

 

You said it was a great move and Shady couldn't be asked to play under his current contract.......which made no sense since it ran thru 2017 and he'd been paid a bunch up front.

 

You said he was going to have a great season........better than under Chip who was a restricting his production.

 

I chimed in pointing out that the extension was crazy because he'd be lucky to play out the original deal he had with Philly........ and that he was an aging freelancer with mileage, injury and attitude issues.

 

You rarely have a take........so you were incensed that I disagreed with this one.

 

I said he'd be gone after the 2016 season.....there were too many negative variables at play for it to last very long, let alone 5 years...........and jabbed you with quips about him doing radio.......like I know if he's going to go into radio.

 

I tried to nail you down on numbers predictions for his upcoming amazing season.........which you would not do because you are weak like that.

 

All the while you became more enraged and furious........totally losing track of the fact that this board is entertainment.

 

Shady subsequently had a disappointing(unsurprisingly) first season in Buffalo.........far below KW and MG in ypc and TD's.....less than 900 yards rushing......all kinds of turmoil....numerous more injuries.....it was a big disappointment.

 

You were wrong about his first year........simple fact.

 

I said that December though........it's on Shady to get his head out of his ass and focus on being a Buffalo Bill and getting his body in shape because he should be averaging 5.5 ypc and scoring TD's on the same inside starting runs that MG and Karlos were instead of taking every other run out of bounds.

 

And when he spoke later in the offseason...... acknowledging that he had left those plays I was talking about on the field and had to do better.........I praised him for it.

 

And he came in with a good attitude, in shape and put up almost dead-nuts-on the numbers I predicted he could with 5.4 ypc and TD's at a strong rate.

 

 

The wager:

 

Somewhere along the line you asked me to make a bet WITH YOU about my prediction of him being cut before 2017 season.

 

I've never tried to initiate a wager here in 20 years on TSW.......it's just a weird, dumb thing to do but you were adamant.

 

To compound matters you wanted an INJURY HEDGE.......which defeats the nature of a friendly wager.

 

I said there would be no hedges, grandma.......he had finished 2015 on IR ....straight up or no bet.

 

I was gone for a few weeks and when I got back I asked if you were on for that bet and you said yes and because you hadn't answered me.......you assumed you still had your ol' lady hedge and later tried to accuse me of backing out.

 

The ante was upped by me to some real money if you wanted your granny hedge.......which you weren't up for so you threw a tantrum from which you've yet to recover.

 

And here we are.

Edited February 27, 2017 by #BADOL

[Deranged Rhino]

 

[Malazan]

So I saw Shady bend down to pick up a quarter once last season. Obviously, this is a sign he will need cash and knows he's done in Buffalo.

[BADOLBILZ]

Essentially wrong. Interesting. I don't compare everything pinned to the main board with everything Yolo, CB22, and others post links to in the forum, so I wouldn't know for sure. I'm grateful for the links, regardless. Sounds like you have a beef with them for some reason and I'm not really interested in why that may be. Doesn't matter.

 

And what, Pat Moran is above getting his balls busted in a fan forum? I have great respect for border agents, etc. and it's too bad Moran's quest to sensationalize their work led to his unfortunate quote about running over his own daughter, but c'mon. Then again, I'm not sure I'm comfortable with the idea of border agents leaking their work place experience just for the sake of sensationalism, either. Regardless, busting Moran's chops has nothing to do with that.

 

Yeah......interesting...... like the difference between lying about something versus not disclosing when you are expected to be forthright.

 

They omitted a subject of interest when people here are assuming they'd never do that.

 

Hence the surprise by some who had heard nothing about this possibility until now.

 

As for Pat Moran.........I'm not a messenger killer like some of you guys........don't know who he is.......or care.......I just know that the story is 100% truth.........as apparently, did he.

 

My issues with yoyo and 26 are no different than my issues with you........just something you perceive when you are feeling menstrual about it.......it's not real.........this is just entertainment.

 

Not much savings if he's cut this year. If they cut him before March 9th they take a 5+ million cap hit. If they cut him after March 9th they save around 250,000 per JB's article a few weeks ago: http://www.wkbw.com/sports/bills/salary-cap-consequences-if-bills-were-to-cut-mccoy

 

(Ignore, wrong info.)

 

 

 

 

EXACTLY

I'd take Shady. Badol would take Jeffrey. He has been clear he'd prefer two playmaking wideouts than 1 wideout and 1 back.

 

 

With running backs it's not really an either/or question.

 

You can find a playmaking running backs almost by accident.

 

Receivers are a much different story.

 

Yeah, some come from later rounds but typically you need to invest early draft picks or big $ in them.

[Jauronimo]

 

Yeah......interesting...... like the difference between lying about something versus not disclosing when you are expected to be forthright.

 

They omitted a subject of interest when people here are assuming they'd never do that.

 

Hence the surprise by some who had heard nothing about this possibility until now.

 

As for Pat Moran.........I'm not a messenger killer like some of you guys........don't know who he is.......or care.......I just know that the story is 100% truth.........as apparently, did he.

 

My issues with yoyo and 26 are no different than my issues with you........just something you perceive when you are feeling menstrual about it.......it's not real.........this is just entertainment.

 

 

EXACTLY

Pat Moran is the type of guy who gambles with the lives of children. Hes basically Kony 2012 except 5 years more ruthless. Your defense of men like this sickens me.

[FireChan]

That does seem to be the case, dosent it. Whats with him and QB's?

If you don't draft a QB, you can't be held responsible if he busts.

 

Between that and Whaley's snake oil "we don't have a chance at good QB prospects" in the Pegula's ear, he may never be fired. After all, there's no way he could find a QB with this awesome roster he's built.

 

Does that "I knew he had a shoulder injury crowd" that didn't know required surgery include the scouting community that was well onto it long before the combine?

 

The "severity" of it came into question at the combine only in terms of what the various medical opinions suggested the best course of treatment should be relative to when the surgery should be performed. Your comparison to Thurman's knee injury aside, surgery is the most common repair for that type of shoulder injury; there is no just no better way to tighten the joint. And it was on Lawson's radar going back to his freshman year. It was always only a question of when.

 

If Whaley denied he would need surgery at some point, he lied. But I don't think he did. He, like the medical staff that advised him, thought it could wait until after his rookie season. A reasonable expectation given his ability to perform at a high level while playing through it in college.

 

Either way, it was gonna be a PR schit storm. Especially in this market.

Bills general manager Doug Whaley downplayed the injury when speaking to reporters after the selection.

"[Our] medical staff cleared him, said he can play," Whaley said. "Now, if something happens, it's going to happen. But it's nothing that we're real worried about or we wouldn't have taken him. We got complete faith in our medical staff and they signed off on him, so we're excited to have him."

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/15426426/buffalo-bills-draft-pick-shaq-lawson-denies-needs-shoulder-surgery

[BADOLBILZ]

 

True, but much easier to rebuild on the go when you have a franchise QB in place.

 

 

Of course, but the Steelers were very good from the early 1990's thru 2003......regular playoff trips, numerous championship games and a SB trip....... with just Neil O'Donnell, Kordell Stewart, Mike Tomczak and Tommy Maddox.

 

Insert Big Ben and SB's became an every-year possibility.

 

It's more of a passing league now....but it was a passing league THEN too and they still got the job done with some modest QB'ing.

 

You can still build around bridge QB's and then insert a franchise QB and be ready to go rather than bottoming out and battering your young QB with a poor supporting cast.

 

The thing people have to remember is that the salary cap system keeps talent re-distributed unless you jump off the rails and intentionally tank.

 

It's not like tanking guarantees you get to keep all those players for very long.......even if you draft well your window with them is small......you are better off staying in the hunt.

[Mr. WEO]

 

 

 

 

 

 

The "I knew he had a shoulder injury crowd" did not know it required surgery.

 

The severity of it became an issue at the combine.

 

Not all lingering injuries require surgery.........see Thurman Thomas knee injury coming out of Oklahoma State for an example.......NEVER had surgery to repair the torn ligament.

 

The point is that the story blew up later and Whaley had even denied it needed surgery so clearly they weren't certain of the extent......otherwise they wouldn't have let him re-injure it in practice before surgery.

 

 

Ah yes...the mysterious non contact "injury" that allowed Whaley cover for dropping the (inevitable) decision to have surgery before the season.

 

That was some clumsy fabricating by Slow Doug...

[BADOLBILZ]

If you don't draft a QB, you can't be held responsible if he busts.

 

Between that and Whaley's snake oil "we don't have a chance at good QB prospects" in the Pegula's ear, he may never be fired. After all, there's no way he could find a QB with this awesome roster he's built.

 

Bills general manager Doug Whaley downplayed the injury when speaking to reporters after the selection.

"[Our] medical staff cleared him, said he can play," Whaley said. "Now, if something happens, it's going to happen. But it's nothing that we're real worried about or we wouldn't have taken him. We got complete faith in our medical staff and they signed off on him, so we're excited to have him."

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/15426426/buffalo-bills-draft-pick-shaq-lawson-denies-needs-shoulder-surgery

 

 

People have crystal clear recollection of Shaq's bad shoulder at Clemson..........but Whaley's no-worries take..........nope, can't member-dat.

[3rdand12]

Someone ask Atlanta how important their RB's are.

You mean now that K Shanahan has left the building tail between his legs ?

[CommonCents]

You mean now that K Shanahan has left the building tail between his legs ?

Not for nothing Dan Quinn has to take that blame. He is on the headset and is ultimately responsible for game management. Sure, Kyle S. seems like a head case who would try and run it up on BB but the HC is a jackass for letting it get to that point. He says run the ball, then KS is calling in some running plays that were averaging 6.8 YPC.

[K-9]

People have crystal clear recollection of Shaq's bad shoulder at Clemson..........but Whaley's no-worries take..........nope, can't member-dat.

There's a difference between Whaley's no worries take and denying that Lawson had a shoulder injury that would require surgery at a future date, which Whaley never did. I get that some less knowing fans freaked out when they heard, but the injury was well known to those that needed to know for a long time.

 

Ultimately, it was a calculated risk, based on Lawson's previous experience and accepted medical practice, that he could play the season. Nothing more than that. At least to those that honestly take all of it as just entertainment, which I'm sure you do.

[3rdand12]

Losing Shady at this point would be just awful management.

I do not care what Dennison runs. If he is worth a F nickel he will run plays to his players.

 

We have had this same damn argument with every Coach that we have ever had. And it was at it's peak last two years with Rex.

If Dennison is that stubborn and wants to change up O line scheme with guys who looked better than Bills have fielded in years, and lose LeSean because he is NOT a cut and guy?

 

Then we have the wrong Coaches

 

AGAIN