GoBills808 Posted February 21, 2017 Posted February 21, 2017 Nicely done- he is an average NFL QB. If this organization is really stupid enough tothrow that away without a solution back themselves into a corner needing to draft a total unknown in an unspectacular year with a high pick they throw to the wolves (3) bank cardale who could be anything From Steve Young to Thad Lewis (4) expecting some savior free agent discard expendable to another franchise in a QB starved league I think there's a distinction to be drawn here: Taylor is STATISTICALLY an average QB (I'd argue a bit below average but whatever). Thing is, to my eyes his brand of play does not translate into the outcomes I would expect an average NFL quarterback to generate. He's simply not proficient enough a passer to capitalize the modern game's interpretation of offense.
Kirby Jackson Posted February 21, 2017 Posted February 21, 2017 I think there's a distinction to be drawn here: Taylor is STATISTICALLY an average QB (I'd argue a bit below average but whatever). Thing is, to my eyes his brand of play does not translate into the outcomes I would expect an average NFL quarterback to generate. He's simply not proficient enough a passer to capitalize the modern game's interpretation of offense. ...and yet he's 15-14 as a starter (average).
GoBills808 Posted February 21, 2017 Posted February 21, 2017 ...and yet he's 15-14 as a starter (average). If you attribute W/L to a QB, then sure.
FireChan Posted February 21, 2017 Posted February 21, 2017 I didn't applaud the post. I said no ****, because anyone who actually watches around the league has seen the likes of Alex Smith, Brock Osweiler, Andy Dalton and an awful Peyton Manning bring their teams to he playoffs the last few years. Tyrods better or right there with those guys in terms of overall play at the position. I don't need stats to tell me that. I simply watch the game. It's asinine to me how some fans simply think it's all about the QB. That's not the case. It's still a team game and if your defense blows and your coach is a loudmouth, lazy moron your going to have issues no matter who is at QB. I'd love an Aaron Rodgers, Big Ben, Tom Brady, or even Eli Manning but until we have that guy go with the next best option. Holy ****. WE SUCKED ON DEFENSE. TYROD DOESNT PLAY DEFENSE. You didn't think his post made a valid point? Sure thing, bud.
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted February 21, 2017 Posted February 21, 2017 You make a great point. What stats don't measure are lost opportunities. For example, on a second read on a passing play the receiver could be open for a long gain but instead he gets restless and runs for a first down. The stats on that play would indicate that he gained a first down and the running stats would be inflated. The reality is that he missed an opportunity to make a big play that could affect the outcome of a game. Going through the box score the positive stats would not indicate him faltering when the big play was there to be had. When the coaches and front office watch the game tape they come away with a much different assessment of how the qb performed compared to the casual observer. Also, he was bad in no-huddle situations, and worse in the 2nd and 4th quarters and better in the 1st and 3rd quarters. Teams that score in no-huddle and 4th quarter situations win more games despite less points scored. Scoring at the end of close games is what translates that 7th in PPG ranking into lots of actual wins. This is why its important to be able to pass the ball...there's inevitably going to be close games in which we have to score some other way than breaking the pocket and scrambling 5-10 yards at a time. Its not about accumulating pretty stats its about getting wins
John from Riverside Posted February 21, 2017 Posted February 21, 2017 If you attribute W/L to a QB, then sure. it works both ways
Kirby Jackson Posted February 21, 2017 Posted February 21, 2017 If you attribute W/L to a QB, then sure.Just saying there are a lot of arguments that people that like Tyrod can make to support him and a lot that people that don't can make to pull him down. At the end of the day he's been average and the record reflects that. His defense has let him down and his running game has helped him out.
GoBills808 Posted February 21, 2017 Posted February 21, 2017 Just saying there are a lot of arguments that people that like Tyrod can make to support him and a lot that people that don't can make to pull him down. At the end of the day he's been average and the record reflects that. His defense has let him down and his running game has helped him out. Again, I know it's easier to simply say 'Taylor's record' is such and such, but it's not accurate. W/L is a team stat. Thus, when Taylor is QB the team is 15-14. He's not defined as average by the team's record any more plausibly than saying McCoy is average because his record is 13-14 when he plays RB for us.
Chilly Posted February 21, 2017 Posted February 21, 2017 Someone can't handle Fitzy fits the same criteria as good enough to be a postseason QB in the post you just applauded. Used to be.
SectionC3 Posted February 21, 2017 Posted February 21, 2017 (edited) I know this is futile, but I was generally curious, given how many seem to think Tyrod is incapable of success. I'm looking at both Tyrod's 2016 season and his 'Bills career' (some argue Tyrod got worse, some argue Tyrod's weapons were missing time, so lets just do both). Doing per attempt/game/percentage stats due to various injuries, suspensions, coaching schemes, etc. across the league. Completion percentage: 2016: Tyrod 61.7% - 11 Playoff QBs ahead/1 Playoff QB behind Career: Tyrod 62.6% - 11 Playoff QBs ahead/1 Playoff QB behind TD percentage: 2016: Tyrod 3.9% - 9 Playoff QBs ahead/3 Playoff QBs behind Career: Tyrod 4.5% - 7 Playoff QBs ahead/5 Playoff QBs behind INT percentage: 2016: Tyrod 1.4% - 5 Playoff QBs ahead/7 Playoff QBs behind Career: Tyrod 1.5% - 5 Playoff QBs ahead/7 Playoff QBs behind Yards per game: 2016: Tyrod 201.5 - 11 Playoff QBs ahead/1 Playoff QB behind Career: Tyrod 208.9 - 11 Playoff QBs ahead/1 Playoff QB behind Net Yards/Attempt: 2016: Tyrod 5.92 - 11 Playoff QBs ahead/1 Playoff QB behind Career: Tyrod 6.32 - 10 Playoff QBs ahead/2 Playoff QBs behind Adjusted Net Yards/Attempt (takes into account TDs/INTs): 2016: Tyrod 6.07 - 10 Playoff QBs ahead/2 Playoff QBs behind Career: Tyrod 6.55 - 9 Playoff QBs ahead/3 Playoff QBs behind QB Rating: 2016: Tyrod 89.7 - 9 Playoff QBs ahead/3 Playoff QBs behind Career: Tyrod 94.2 - 6 Playoff QBs ahead/6 Playoff QBs behind ESPN QBR 2016: Tyrod 68.2 - 5 Playoff QBs ahead/7 Playoff QBs behind Career: Tyrod ~68 - 5 Playoff QBs ahead/7 Playoff QBs behind It should be noted in all of this, though, is that Tyrod is significantly more productive than other QBs on the ground, comparing his numbers to the playoff QBs there, he comes out ahead in almost every metric. Kinda wonder if adding passing + rushing for the playoff QBs and Tyrod, if there would be a significant change in rankings. (Example in total yards per game, it'd move Tyrod up at least a couple spots, just glancing at things. Same with TD%, and if you include fumbles, it'd further cement him near the top since other QBs have a bigger fumbling problem) Conclusion: Tyrod can be a QB of a playoff caliber team, but he's not good enough to carry a team to the playoffs. If the Bills keep Tyrod, they *need* to improve on defense, to have anything close to a chance. (which anyone who actually watches games could have told you) Nice work. Completely agree with the conclusion: Tyrod can get you to the postseason, but not by himself. If one agrees with that conclusion, there's no sense in dumping Tyrod for a "bridge" QB. Tyrod is the bridge. So maybe the convo is better addressed to who we bring in this year to compete with cardale, to push cardale, and to be pushed by cardale. If pushed myself, I'd consider Mahomes or kelly,but maybe that's s conversation for another day. Edited February 21, 2017 by BuffaloPowerEye
davspo Posted February 21, 2017 Posted February 21, 2017 With all due respects to Dorkington, you could look at the stats or look at how he has performed in the games. To me, he doesn't play like the guy who will lead this team anywhere. Either draft a qb or address other issues, tank the season and get one next year.
bigK14094 Posted February 21, 2017 Posted February 21, 2017 If they keep TT and draft a QB, they should draft somebody who can operate in the same O mode. That is a QB who has wheels...won't find a QB with wheels quite as good a TT, but get somebody who can run. I actually don't know if Cardale fits that description. Reworking the O if TT get hurt is a major problem mid season.
cage Posted February 21, 2017 Posted February 21, 2017 @billsdaily Ian Rapoport just said on NFL network that it is more likely the Bills keep Tyrod Taylor than move on from him. So I would say GOOD! I think we're overstating his negatives and understating his positives. I think he's found a connection with Charles Clay, we need Sammy Watkins healthy all year, he's difficult to stop and I would pick either Williams or Davis in the 1st round.... that plus Shady.... TT still has upside. He's only been a starter for 2 years and the 2nd one w/ no receiver corp. Let him blossom!
jeffismagic Posted February 21, 2017 Posted February 21, 2017 Tyrod is a bridge QB. And the Bills would pay him 30+ million as a bridge to nowhere.
Kirby Jackson Posted February 21, 2017 Posted February 21, 2017 Again, I know it's easier to simply say 'Taylor's record' is such and such, but it's not accurate. W/L is a team stat. Thus, when Taylor is QB the team is 15-14. He's not defined as average by the team's record any more plausibly than saying McCoy is average because his record is 13-14 when he plays RB for us. You have the wrong guy. You are preaching to the choir. Wins and losses belong to the team. We are in agreement. The NFL does track w/l for QBs though. That's not up for debate (right or wrong).
FireChan Posted February 21, 2017 Posted February 21, 2017 You have the wrong guy. You are preaching to the choir. Wins and losses belong to the team. We are in agreement. The NFL does track w/l for QBs though. That's not up for debate (right or wrong). Everything belongs to the team, then. The QB doesn't throw TD's to himself. He doesn't catch passes, or get yards.
Kirby Jackson Posted February 21, 2017 Posted February 21, 2017 12 million a year. Bonus money involvedIf you are keeping him you are guaranteeing him $31M. He has said that he isn't taking a pay cut. You may resturcture but that doesn't lessen the money. It moves the year that it hits the cap.Everything belongs to the team, then. The QB doesn't throw TD's to himself. He doesn't catch passes, or get yards. The guys that throw and catch both get yards and TDs. That's a bad example. The team accounts for the entire game. A guy that throws the ball accounts for the passing yards. A guy that runs the ball accounts for the running yards. A guy that sacks the QB gets credit for sacks. The sum of all plays by all players leads to wins and losses.
Maury Ballstein Posted February 21, 2017 Posted February 21, 2017 Everything belongs to the team, then. The QB doesn't throw TD's to himself. He doesn't catch passes, or get yards. I just follow the jfh theorem. Anything tyrod does good is on Tyrod Anything Tyrod fails at is someone else's fault.
FireChan Posted February 21, 2017 Posted February 21, 2017 If you are keeping him you are guaranteeing him $31M. He has said that he isn't taking a pay cut. You may resturcture but that doesn't lessen the money. It moves the year that it hits the cap. The guys that throw and catch both get yards and TDs. That's a bad example. The team accounts for the entire game. A guy that throws the ball accounts for the passing yards. A guy that runs the ball accounts for the running yards. A guy that sacks the QB gets credit for sacks. The sum of all plays by all players leads to wins and losses. The guy who catches the ball also accounts for the yards.
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