BillsFan2313 Posted February 22, 2017 Posted February 22, 2017 i didnt realize that it had to be EXACTLY 16 to meet your standard ok I do understand what your saying....i just dont agree with you He has his warts.....he also quarterbacked the 7th highest scoring offense in the league......and did it with street free agents How is above average, average, below average determined then? You set the bar for average, and go from there.
Kirby Jackson Posted February 22, 2017 Posted February 22, 2017 (edited) How is above average, average, below average determined then? You set the bar for average, and go from there. I think that is true but when it comes to evaluating players there is a lot of subjectivity involved. The majority of people would have comparisons that are similar but may rank players within that tier differently. As an example, if I were to ask 50 people to rank Tannehill, Smith, Tyrod, Dalton, Bradford, and Carson Palmer you will get a ton of different opinions. If you threw Tom Brady in there, 50 people would have him at 1. Edited February 22, 2017 by Kirby Jackson
FireChan Posted February 22, 2017 Posted February 22, 2017 I think that is true but when it comes to evaluating players there is a lot of subjectivity involved. The majority of people would have comparisons that are similar but may rank players within that tier differently. As an example, if I were to ask 50 people to rank Tannehill, Smith, Tyrod, Dalton, Bradford, and Carson Palmer you will get a ton of different opinions. If you threw Tom Brady in there, 50 people would have him at 1. TT wouldn't crack 20. That's the top edge of the bottom third and below average.
Kirby Jackson Posted February 22, 2017 Posted February 22, 2017 TT wouldn't crack 20. That's the top edge of the bottom third and below average. I think that is likely true. I have him right around 20 (exactly where pff has him) https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-ranking-all-32-nfl-quarterbacks-this-season/. It isn't insane though to think that he could be a few spots higher. As an example, their list is quite different from mine (even though we have TT roughly in the same spot).
Maury Ballstein Posted February 22, 2017 Posted February 22, 2017 TT wouldn't crack 20. That's the top edge of the bottom third and below average. Give him Detroit, Washington, Denver, Green Bay, or Rams running backs instead of Shady and he would be 32nd.
FireChan Posted February 22, 2017 Posted February 22, 2017 (edited) I think that is likely true. I have him right around 20 (exactly where pff has him) https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-ranking-all-32-nfl-quarterbacks-this-season/. It isn't insane though to think that he could be a few spots higher. As an example, their list is quite different from mine (even though we have TT roughly in the same spot). My point is that TT is closer to "bottom third starter" than "average QB." I can't see anyone ranking him over these guys, in no particular order: 1 Brees 2 Brady 3 Ryan 4 Ben 5 Stafford 6 Rivers 7 Rodgers 8 Flacco 9 Luck 10 Palmer 11 Wilson 12 Dalton 13 Jameis 14 Eli 15 Carr 16 Prescott 17 Cam 18 Bradford 19 Smith 20 Mariota He's right around that 21st spot with Tannehill at best. And personally, I put Tanny over him. Edited February 22, 2017 by FireChan
BuffaloHokie13 Posted February 22, 2017 Posted February 22, 2017 I think that is likely true. I have him right around 20 (exactly where pff has him) https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-ranking-all-32-nfl-quarterbacks-this-season/. It isn't insane though to think that he could be a few spots higher. As an example, their list is quite different from mine (even though we have TT roughly in the same spot). Interesting that they didn't rank them by their PFF grades
Bookie Man Posted February 22, 2017 Posted February 22, 2017 Even so, I hope they still draft a QB in first 2 rounds. I doubt they will though.
starrymessenger Posted February 22, 2017 Posted February 22, 2017 That would have been an elite offense if it had thrown the football better, and there were open receivers and easy opportunities all season long. The lack of a passing game is what held the Bills back from a dominant offense that would carry a bad defense into the playoffs. Some fans see only downside, the risk that the Bills offense will be terrible again if anything changes. Fair enough. I see opportunity. If you add a mediocre passing game component to last year's offense, look the **ck out! The pass rush comes back strong and you may be talking about an actual contender. This has been my view all along. Draft C. Davis, sign RW (or equivalent) and with Clay and (hopefully) a healthy SW and presto you have a top flight receiving corps. Get a QB that is a good fit for the WCO (like Foles) and this offence can be explosive. The 400 or so Tyrod rushing yards that you lose are more than made up for in a run game that is less predictable and harder to defence and you have wideouts that can excel in both the short passing game and who can take the top off as well.
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted February 22, 2017 Posted February 22, 2017 This has been my view all along. Draft C. Davis, sign RW (or equivalent) and with Clay and (hopefully) a healthy SW and presto you have a top flight receiving corps. Get a QB that is a good fit for the WCO (like Foles) and this offence can be explosive. The 400 or so Tyrod rushing yards that you lose are more than made up for in a run game that is less predictable and harder to defence and you have wideouts that can excel in both the short passing game and who can take the top off as well.well said. Also with a better passing game you're more likely to get critical situational scores you need to WIN. So instead of being 7th in points but still losing, you can turn the points into wins more efficiently. Tyrod struggled the last 2 years in critical situations.
Kirby Jackson Posted February 22, 2017 Posted February 22, 2017 (edited) My point is that TT is closer to "bottom third starter" than "average QB." I can't see anyone ranking him over these guys, in no particular order: 1 Brees 2 Brady 3 Ryan 4 Ben 5 Stafford 6 Rivers 7 Rodgers 8 Flacco 9 Luck 10 Palmer 11 Wilson 12 Dalton 13 Jameis 14 Eli 15 Carr 16 Prescott 17 Cam 18 Bradford 19 Smith 20 Mariota He's right around that 21st spot with Tannehill at best. And personally, I put Tanny over him. You cant see anyone ranking him over the bolded guys?????? You don't think that people could make a case that he is better than Alex Smith or Bradford or Carson Palmer? I have him above all 3 of those guys. We've been over the Flacco conversation as well. It isn't hard, at all, to make a case that he is ahead of those guys. Interesting that they didn't rank them by their PFF grades Gotta love PFF Edited February 22, 2017 by Kirby Jackson
Hyphe23 Posted February 22, 2017 Posted February 22, 2017 My point is that TT is closer to "bottom third starter" than "average QB." I can't see anyone ranking him over these guys, in no particular order: 1 Brees 2 Brady 3 Ryan 4 Ben 5 Stafford 6 Rivers 7 Rodgers 8 Flacco 9 Luck 10 Palmer 11 Wilson 12 Dalton 13 Jameis 14 Eli 15 Carr 16 Prescott 17 Cam 18 Bradford 19 Smith 20 Mariota He's right around that 21st spot with Tannehill at best. And personally, I put Tanny over him. Id take him over Bradford, Smith and Eli on that list. Jameis was worse than Tyrod last year but expect him to improve more moving forward.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted February 22, 2017 Posted February 22, 2017 You cant see anyone ranking him over the bolded guys?????? You don't think that people could make a case that he is better than Alex Smith or Bradford or Carson Palmer? I have him above all 3 of those guys. We've been over the Flacco conversation as well. It isn't hard, at all, to make a case that he is ahead of those guys. Gotta love PFF I had to point it out because if you sort by their PFF grade Tyrod is actually the 11th ranked QB!
FireChan Posted February 22, 2017 Posted February 22, 2017 (edited) You cant see anyone ranking him over the bolded guys?????? You don't think that people could make a case that he is better than Alex Smith or Bradford or Carson Palmer? I have him above all 3 of those guys. We've been over the Flacco conversation as well. It isn't hard, at all, to make a case that he is ahead of those guys. Gotta love PFF No. Bradford was legit last season. 3800 yards, 20 TD's, 5 INT's. 71.6% completion percentage. Alex Smith is a winner, perennial playoff guy, but probably the closest to TT Palmer had a down year, but still threw 26 TD's and 4200 yards. Only 1 year removed from a 35 TD, 4600 yard year. I'd take all 3 of those guys over TT next season, and I think you'd be hardpressed to find a guy who wouldn't take at least two of them over TT. And if that's the case, that's not cracking 20. Edited February 22, 2017 by FireChan
Hyphe23 Posted February 22, 2017 Posted February 22, 2017 No. Bradford was legit last season. 3800 yards, 20 TD's, 5 INT's. 71.6% completion percentage. Alex Smith is a winner, perennial playoff guy, but probably the closest to TT Palmer had a down year, but still threw 26 TD's and 4200 yards. Only 1 year removed from a 35 TD, 4600 yard year. I'd take all 3 of those guys over TT next season, and I think you'd be hardpressed to find a guy who wouldn't take at least two of them over TT. And if that's the case, that's not cracking 20. They all had way more pass attempts. Looking at yards and TDs only is miopic. Alex Smith has a good defense and better weapons. Why do you call him a winner but dismiss the idea of Tyrod being able to take us to the playoffs with a good defense?
Kirby Jackson Posted February 22, 2017 Posted February 22, 2017 (edited) No. Bradford was legit last season. 3800 yards, 20 TD's, 5 INT's. 71.6% completion percentage. Alex Smith is a winner, perennial playoff guy, but probably the closest to TT Palmer had a down year, but still threw 26 TD's and 4200 yards. Only 1 year removed from a 35 TD, 4600 yard year. I'd take all 3 of those guys over TT next season, and I think you'd be hardpressed to find a guy who wouldn't take at least two of them over TT. And if that's the case, that's not cracking 20. That's the key "I'd" not "everybody". It is certainly debatable in those cases. As I said earlier, I would have him at 20 (ish) but if someone said that he was better than Alex Smith (his numbers certainly support that) it isn't crazy. That was the point. There is certainly subjectivity when it comes to guys like that group I named. Edited February 22, 2017 by Kirby Jackson
TPS Posted February 22, 2017 Posted February 22, 2017 Very impressed with his Oakland, Miami 1 and Pitt performances huh ? Garbagetime vs Pitt after 70 yards passing in 3 qtrs is where pro bowlers are made! TD and two point conversion when Miami game was over was solid too! Stoned by raiders cellar dwelling defense = great success! This is a layup line. First, very few people claim he is a franchise QB, rather he is the best option for the interim--until a franchise guy is found. Every QB currently available, with the exception of maybe Cousins, has issues; for example, with Romo it's age and injuries. Regarding your stats, people can just as easily focus on specific games (Seattle) or parts of games and use it to support a case for keeping Taylor just as you did to argue against him. From my perspective, I also think he is the best option to have for the next 2-3 years as the Bills look for a franchise guy (Hopefully they draft someone like Mohomes this year). I view Taylor much like A. Smith, someone who is good enough to get you to the playoffs as long as you have a top 10 D. We'll find out what the Bills think soon enough.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted February 22, 2017 Posted February 22, 2017 TT wouldn't crack 20. That's the top edge of the bottom third and below average. Gregg Rosenthal had him 18th. If my math is correct that would be top 20
FireChan Posted February 22, 2017 Posted February 22, 2017 That's the key "I'd" not "everybody". It is certainly debatable in those cases. As I said earlier, I would have him at 20 (ish) but is someone said that he was better than Alex Smith (his numbers certainly support that) it isn't crazy. That was the point. There is certainly subjectivity when it comes to guys like that group I named. "you'd be hardpressed to find a guy who wouldn't take at least two of them over TT. And if that's the case, that's not cracking 20." It's not just TT vs Smith. You'd have to say "I'd take him over Smith and x." Not happening. They all had way more pass attempts. Looking at yards and TDs only is miopic. Alex Smith has a good defense and better weapons. Why do you call him a winner but dismiss the idea of Tyrod being able to take us to the playoffs with a good defense? It may have something to do with which QB wins a lot of games and which does not.
section122 Posted February 22, 2017 Posted February 22, 2017 No. Bradford was legit last season. 3800 yards, 20 TD's, 5 INT's. 71.6% completion percentage. Alex Smith is a winner, perennial playoff guy, but probably the closest to TT Palmer had a down year, but still threw 26 TD's and 4200 yards. Only 1 year removed from a 35 TD, 4600 yard year. I'd take all 3 of those guys over TT next season, and I think you'd be hardpressed to find a guy who wouldn't take at least two of them over TT. And if that's the case, that's not cracking 20. Arguments that can be made: Bradford is always a risk to get hurt. He has only played a full season 2 out of 6 years. The Vikings offense went in the tank after their 5-0 start. After his first 4 games the Vikes put up 10,10,16, and 20 points. The Vikings as a team scored 20 or less points in 7 of his 15 starts. They scored 10 or less in 3 games. Bradford contributed less tds that TT did as well. 20 to 23. Alex Smith. You know your argument is in trouble when you have to go to calling him a winner. He stats are very similar and mostly a little worse than TT on a much better team with a much better supporting defense. Palmer is clearly on the downside of his career. For just 1 year I would probably take Palmer but going forward the Cards have to be looking for a replacement. I would add Flacco into the mix as well for an argument to be made. He was flat out terrible this year.
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