FireChan Posted February 20, 2017 Posted February 20, 2017 Is W-L a QB stat? Seriously you hurt your argument when you go there. My previous post has some 2017 FACTS for you. Tyrod has gone for 47 tds and 12 ints over the last 2 years. Smith has gone for 42 tds and 15 ints. Do I really need to keep going with this? Didn't you just post PPG as a QB stat? Nice buffet style argument. He's a nice complimentary player. 41-20 is more of a salute to Andy Reid then Alex Smith, IMO. Coaching matters. That big buffoon? Reid is okay, but nothing special.
billieve420 Posted February 20, 2017 Posted February 20, 2017 Alex Smith is a lateral move. I rather stick with Tyrod with a healthy complement of receivers. If we move on from Tyrod have Cardale start for the year and go full on rebuild.
FireChan Posted February 20, 2017 Posted February 20, 2017 I don't really understand blindly attributing a record to a QB. If so, one could say Philip Rivers a worse QB than Brock Osweiler over the same period of time. That's why you don't blindly do it.
Fixxxer Posted February 20, 2017 Posted February 20, 2017 I think Smith is a worse version of Taylor. Sure he might be cheaper but if he hits the market I have to imagine he will command money close to what Tyrod is getting. Don't forget the Jets just paid Fitzpatrick 12 million last year. I think TT will keep growing. Smith is a great example of players growing as late as the 6th / 7th year in their career and he had the benefit of starting for those years. Hoyer, Smith, Fitz again, Glennon, none of those guys excite me. A rookie I will be hopeful for but I'd rather keep TT even if the plan is to draft a QB. I've put it elsewhere but the Bills team commitment to the position would still be under 20 million with a first round QB and TT. If we keep him, I hope he keeps improving, I have my seriuos doubts about it, though. I think he has already shown his ceiling.
section122 Posted February 20, 2017 Posted February 20, 2017 Are you including Tyreke Hill's special teams touchdowns? No I didn't that is 14 more points taken away from them. So that brings them down to 22.5 ppg. I honestly cannot think of a single QB in living memory who sucked for his first 6 years and then got decent, outside of Smith. I can't say his existence disproves anything, rather that he was 1 QB in a million who bucked the trend. Rex isn't an offensive coach. Not sure you know what you're talking about there. How about Rich Gannon? He sucked for 11. I know Rex isn't an offensive coach. I was asking who would have received the better coaching for the QB position. TT with Rex or Smith with Harbaugh and Reid.
Spurna Posted February 20, 2017 Posted February 20, 2017 I want Tyrod to win a Super Bowl somewhere else just to prove doubters wrong
section122 Posted February 20, 2017 Posted February 20, 2017 Didn't you just post PPG as a QB stat? Nice buffet style argument. That big buffoon? Reid is okay, but nothing special. You make me laugh.... Which is more of a QB stat? The one where the whole team has a say or the one where one guy has the ball in his hand every snap? Reid is okay but nothing special? Then what does that make Rex? How is Smith good when his team went 41-20 or whatever it was but the coach who has a ton more say in overall record be just okay?
FireChan Posted February 20, 2017 Posted February 20, 2017 (edited) No I didn't that is 14 more points taken away from them. So that brings them down to 22.5 ppg. How about Rich Gannon? He sucked for 11. I know Rex isn't an offensive coach. I was asking who would have received the better coaching for the QB position. TT with Rex or Smith with Harbaugh and Reid. These statements don't make sense. Also, Alex Smith and TT ran the same offensive system in Smith's 2011/2012 campaigns and TT's 20156/2016 campaigns. Are you arguing that Rex was hands on with his QB? You make me laugh.... Which is more of a QB stat? The one where the whole team has a say or the one where one guy has the ball in his hand every snap? Reid is okay but nothing special? Then what does that make Rex? How is Smith good when his team went 41-20 or whatever it was but the coach who has a ton more say in overall record be just okay? Oh, so now one is more of a QB stat, when you say it is. But the other one "isn't." You are talking yourself in circles. Ball in his hand. #AllHandoffsMatter He's a good regular season head coach. Consistently brings his teams to the post season year in and year out. His teams often fail in the playoffs but he's a consistent performer in the regular season. While that certainly is better than sucking every year like Rex.... Edited February 20, 2017 by FireChan
section122 Posted February 20, 2017 Posted February 20, 2017 These statements don't make sense. Also, Alex Smith and TT ran the same offensive system in Smith's 2011/2012 campaigns and TT's 20156/2016 campaigns. Are you arguing that Rex was hands on with his QB? Okay how about this... No Rex was not hands on with the QB. Did TT receive as good or better QB coaching with A Lynn and David Lee than Smith did with Harbaugh and Reid? Smith and TT did run the same system for those 2 years each. Want to guess who had better numbers?
FireChan Posted February 20, 2017 Posted February 20, 2017 Okay how about this... No Rex was not hands on with the QB. Did TT receive as good or better QB coaching with A Lynn and David Lee than Smith did with Harbaugh and Reid? Smith and TT did run the same system for those 2 years each. Want to guess who had better numbers? Probably the same. Roman was both of their OC's for a year+. I'd bet that 19-5 W-L is better than 14-14 W-L.. 6 4thQCB and 6 GWD is better than 2 and 3. Oh, and that 5 TD's, no INTs and 1-1 in the postseason is better than golfing.
section122 Posted February 20, 2017 Posted February 20, 2017 If we keep him, I hope he keeps improving, I have my seriuos doubts about it, though. I think he has already shown his ceiling. It is quite possible. I don't think he has but we won't know until next season. The flashes I saw in Miami and Seattle make me want to see more. Consistency certainly needs improving but to me that comes from playing more.
Dorkington Posted February 20, 2017 Posted February 20, 2017 I don't personally care. We are getting the Tyrod of today or the Alex Smith of today. What happened in 2006 with Alex Smith doesn't really indicate what will happen in 2017. Alex Smith's last 4 years, he's posted a 41-20 record as a starter. TT has posted 14-14 in the last 2. I'll take the guy who wins twice as much as he loses. Better for business, IMO. I don't really understand blindly attributing a record to a QB. If so, one could say Philip Rivers a worse QB than Brock Osweiler over the same period of time. That's why you don't blindly do it.
CommonCents Posted February 20, 2017 Posted February 20, 2017 He does a little more presnap than TT but he is less explosive with his legs and just as conservative with the ball. No thanks.
section122 Posted February 20, 2017 Posted February 20, 2017 Probably the same. Roman was both of their OC's for a year+. I'd bet that 19-5 W-L is better than 14-14 W-L.. 6 4thQCB and 6 GWD is better than 2 and 3. Oh, and that 5 TD's, no INTs and 1-1 in the postseason is better than golfing. It's okay when you're proven wrong to admit it buddy. Nobody will think less of you...
FireChan Posted February 20, 2017 Posted February 20, 2017 You make the cardinal mistake of not realizing that statistically they are about the same. No one is saying Smith is a better QB than Brees because he wins more when Brees throws for a billion TD's. It's okay when you're proven wrong to admit it buddy. Nobody will think less of you... I mean, you're blaming Rex Ryan for the poor coaching of Tyrod. Throwing stones in glass houses and all that. Smith won more with Roman coaching. Period. He had almost triple the comebacks and game winning drives as TT, which correlates 100% to wins. TT sucks at the 2min drill and winning games when down. That's the clear difference between the QB's. One wins games. The other does not. Rail against that fate all you like.
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted February 20, 2017 Posted February 20, 2017 It's close, but I'd take Tyrod over Smith. Anyone who doesn't at least see how comparable they are just doesn't want to look
GunnerBill Posted February 20, 2017 Posted February 20, 2017 (edited) Haven't read the whole thread so apologies if I am repeating what has been said. I think TT and Smith are similar level Quarterbacks. If all things were equal dumping one for the other is pointless... but if I am reading Smith's deal right the only guaranteed money he has for 2018 is a $3.6m signing bonus and I believe (may be wrong) that he has in cash terms already received that money from KC and they remain on the hook for that. So the attraction for the Bills of Smith in a trade is he would be a guy they could move in from next year if they draft one this year and let him sit or plan to draft one early next year to start. The downside of releasing Tyrod and trading for Smith is the giving up of a pick. I suspect Kansas City would want at least a 3rd.... I'd offer our 2018 4th and see what happens. Edited February 20, 2017 by GunnerBill
FireChan Posted February 20, 2017 Posted February 20, 2017 Haven't read the whole thread so apologies if I am repeating what has been said. I think TT and Smith are similar level Quarterbacks. If all things were equal dumping one for the other is pointless... but if I am reading Smith's deal right the only guaranteed money he has for 2018 is a $3.6m signing bonus and I believe (may be wrong) that he has in cash terms already received that money from KC and they remain on the hook for that. So the attraction for the Bills of Smith in a trade is he would be a guy they could move in from next year if they draft one this year and let him sit or plan to draft one early next year to start. The downside of releasing Tyrod and trading for Smith is the giving up of a pick. I suspect Kansas City would want at least a 3rd.... I'd offer our 2018 4th and see what happens. You would have to worry about Denver or Houston swooping in with that low of an offer.
Sandy McFiddish Posted February 20, 2017 Posted February 20, 2017 (edited) At this point I would settle for a Qb that can make a back shoulder throw, it seems like I have not seen one since Bledsoe. If TT could learn how to do that he would be so much more of a threat. Edited February 20, 2017 by Sandy McFiddish
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