FireChan Posted February 19, 2017 Posted February 19, 2017 see games from 2016. Specifically the last one vs a spoiler team. He has 7 game winning drives in 2 years. 4 in 2016. One game don't mean nothing.
CanadianFan Posted February 19, 2017 Posted February 19, 2017 Come on. He's an average QB at best. Let the browns pick him up. Where QBs go to die. LOL.
billykaykay Posted February 19, 2017 Posted February 19, 2017 Dalton is seriously underrated around here. Not so much around the league, though. He was sensational in 2015 and worked behind a really had OL this year and still looked pretty good. He hasn't always been very good. But two years ago he made a leap upwards. IMHO he's on the bubble of the top ten and will show that again next year if they can get the OL working again. I'd take Cousins. If I were the Skins I'd do whatever I had to do. Knowing that I would have to pay $24 mill per year, would I acquire him for Buffalo paying two 1sts to do it? Man, hard question. I'd take him as an FA. Man, I don't know. But in the end, this wanting to be elsewhere comes down to not thinking they're going to give him what he thinks he deserves. A long-term contract and I think he's suddenly thrilled to be there. Four 4th quarter comebacks and 4 game-winning drives last year says he doesn't. Or at least not at a high rate. I know that it is only one game, but did you see Dalton vs the Bills this year ?
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 19, 2017 Posted February 19, 2017 This screams smokescreen to me. But if Washington doesn't sign him, there may be more to the story. He has turned into a better qb than I ever imagined but something screams douche about him. It's so hard to compare qbs under the top guys. Cousins is an upgrade over Taylor. But maybe he isn't a great leader. And Flacco will never be a number monster but he certainly plays well in big spots.
Prickly Pete Posted February 19, 2017 Posted February 19, 2017 (edited) This screams smokescreen to me. But if Washington doesn't sign him, there may be more to the story. He has turned into a better qb than I ever imagined but something screams douche about him. It's so hard to compare qbs under the top guys. Cousins is an upgrade over Taylor. But maybe he isn't a great leader. And Flacco will never be a number monster but he certainly plays well in big spots. Does anyone consider Tyrod a "great leader"? I don't know that he is bad, but he doesn't really show much that a fan can see. That is one of the things I don't like about him, he is too low key. I can't say for sure, but I don't get the sense that his teammates are ready to run through walls, inspired by Tyrod. Edited February 19, 2017 by HoF Watkins
Alphadawg7 Posted February 19, 2017 Posted February 19, 2017 (edited) Alex Smith can't sniff Flacco's jock in the postseason. Which is why grouping him, along with two QB's who can't even get their teams to the postseason, with Flacco is crazy, to me. Flacco is in that 15-18 range for me, right now. The thing is, once you get past Rodgers, Brees, Brady and usually Roethlisberger, everyone goes up and down. Rivers was probably the 5th best QB in the NFL 3 years ago. 4 years ago, he dropped to 15-18. 6 years ago, he was in the top 8. They're like stocks. Once you get past the dominant, record breaking, surefire HoFers, no one is consistently really good across a 5 year period. Hell, Eli moves 10 spots almost yearly. Kirk was 20-27 3 years ago. The thing that matters is ceiling and floor. Smith has a high floor and low ceiling. He's more consistent, but never dominates. Flacco and Eli? Lower floors with exponentially higher ceilings. Those guys can go throw for throw with Brady/Rodgers when they're hot. Alex Smith can't. Ryan Tannehill can't. Tyrod Taylor can't. I am a little confused...you said earlier that Flacco is an "Elite" QB...but you follow it up here with you have him as 15-18? I am asking because I don't understand your QB scale here...how can someone you think is Elite be the 15th to 18th best QB which is really where you get to average or up and coming guys really? He is absolutely top 10 in the NFL...everyone has a varying opinion, but I would imagine nobody would likely rank him higher than 5th or 6th, but he shouldn't rank any lower than 10th. If you make a top 10 list, I just can't see how he isn't inside it. My top 10 would follow as: TOP 5 Brady Rodgers Brees Ryan Wilson Next Group of 5 Big Ben - You can make a case for him as high as 4th, but injury risk I think puts him here. Carr - Early, but I think that much of him and felt if he didn't get hurt he had a legit shot at MVP. Flacco - Proven winner whose dealt with a big injury and poor supporting cast last couple years. Newton - Case can be made for him to be higher, but don't know who the real Newton is after up and down years Stafford - From this point on, its all clumped together and a lot of variance can happen. Next group of 5 Rivers - Age and pressing has pushed him down the list, but could see him swapping places with Stafford as well. Luck - I personally cant move him up until he stops turning the ball over and shows up in the playoffs where he's had more INTs than TDs all 3 playoff years. Cousins - Think this is about right for him...he doesnt have the post season resume yet, but he's also only had 2 years as "the guy", so gave him some upside points over Eli. Manning - This is more about his 2 SB rings...but I am not sure he really is a top 15 QB anymore in the NFL with several quality young QB's emerging. Dalton - I struggle to move him higher when his teams just haven't gotten it done in the postseason. While I can easily see some of these guys moving a little up or down in different peoples rankings, I just can't see a scenario where Flacco isnt in the top 10. He is better than Cousins, Mariota and Dalton without question. I also feel he is better than Rivers and Stafford as well. And while I can see why some people rank Luck higher, I am in the camp of feeling that Luck is over rated in regards to the "Elite" level he is often labeled as. His team has a better record in the 9 games without him the last 2 years and in the 3 years the Colts made the playoffs, he has had more turnovers than TD's in each of those playoffs with a dismal QB rating for his playoff career. So I can't move him ahead of a guy who was at his best in the playoffs and is a SB champion. But even if you slide Luck somewhere in the top 10, that still leaves room for Flacco and bumps out Stafford before it bumps out Flacco. Edited February 19, 2017 by Alphadawg7
dave mcbride Posted February 19, 2017 Posted February 19, 2017 I am a little confused...you said earlier that Flacco is an "Elite" QB...but you follow it up here with you have him as 15-18? I am asking because I don't understand your QB scale here...how can someone you think is Elite be the 15th to 18th best QB which is really where you get to average or up and coming guys really? He is absolutely top 10 in the NFL...everyone has a varying opinion, but I would imagine nobody would likely rank him higher than 5th or 6th, but he shouldn't rank any lower than 10th. If you make a top 10 list, I just can't see how he isn't inside it. My top 10 would follow as: TOP 5 Brady Rodgers Brees Ryan Wilson Next Group of 5 Big Ben - You can make a case for him as high as 4th, but injury risk I think puts him here. Carr - Early, but I think that much of him and felt if he didn't get hurt he had a legit shot at MVP. Flacco - Proven winner whose dealt with a big injury and poor supporting cast last couple years. Newton - Case can be made for him to be higher, but don't know who the real Newton is after up and down years Stafford - From this point on, its all clumped together and a lot of variance can happen. Next group of 5 Rivers - Age and pressing has pushed him down the list, but could see him swapping places with Stafford as well. Luck - I personally cant move him up until he stops turning the ball over and shows up in the playoffs where he's had more INTs than TDs all 3 playoff years. Cousins - Think this is about right for him...he doesnt have the post season resume yet, but he's also only had 2 years as "the guy", so gave him some upside points over Eli. Manning - This is more about his 2 SB rings...but I am not sure he really is a top 15 QB anymore in the NFL with several quality young QB's emerging. Dalton - I struggle to move him higher when his teams just haven't gotten it done in the postseason. While I can easily see some of these guys moving a little up or down in different peoples rankings, I just can't see a scenario where Flacco isnt in the top 10. He is better than Cousins, Mariota and Dalton without question. I also feel he is better than Rivers and Stafford as well. And while I can see why some people rank Luck higher, I am in the camp of feeling that Luck is over rated in regards to the "Elite" level he is often labeled as. His team has a better record in the 9 games without him the last 2 years and in the 3 years the Colts made the playoffs, he has had more turnovers than TD's in each of those playoffs with a dismal QB rating for his playoff career. So I can't move him ahead of a guy who was at his best in the playoffs and is a SB champion. But even if you slide Luck somewhere in the top 10, that still leaves room for Flacco and bumps out Stafford before it bumps out Flacco. Great post, but I honestly thiink that Phillip Rivers is the most underrated player of this century. He's been playing behind a historically bad offensive line the last three years (bad luck with injuries) and weak receivers, but he still produces.
Prickly Pete Posted February 19, 2017 Posted February 19, 2017 Great post, but I honestly thiink that Phillip Rivers is the most underrated player of this century. He's been playing behind a historically bad offensive line the last three years (bad luck with injuries) and weak receivers, but he still produces. He is definitely in the top 10. I'm sure the statisticians will attack, but I go by watching a guy play. Rivers is very good.
dave mcbride Posted February 19, 2017 Posted February 19, 2017 This screams smokescreen to me. But if Washington doesn't sign him, there may be more to the story. He has turned into a better qb than I ever imagined but something screams douche about him. It's so hard to compare qbs under the top guys. Cousins is an upgrade over Taylor. But maybe he isn't a great leader. And Flacco will never be a number monster but he certainly plays well in big spots. I honestly don't think he's a douche. He was well liked at MSU (Le'veon Bell remains a big fan of his), unlike Connor Cook (a genuine jerk), and he's a Tolkien fan. His issue is the picks thrown down the middle -- he does it too much at inopportune moments. He's the opposite of Tyrod in that sense.
Alphadawg7 Posted February 19, 2017 Posted February 19, 2017 Great post, but I honestly thiink that Phillip Rivers is the most underrated player of this century. He's been playing behind a historically bad offensive line the last three years (bad luck with injuries) and weak receivers, but he still produces. He is definitely in the top 10. I'm sure the statisticians will attack, but I go by watching a guy play. Rivers is very good. Yeah I don't disagree with that. The only reason I have him at 11 is because of 2 reasons...I moved Carr into the top 10 coming off what I felt was a legitimate MVP consideration season before he got hurt late. And the second was Stafford at the 10th spot because I felt he elevated his play more without having Calvin that he was trying to force things too all the time. I have no issue with putting Rivers in the top 10, he's certainly had a big career and been saddled on a bad roster for a while. So if we move him into the top 10, what are your thoughts on who you would move out of the top 10 to get Rivers into it (as I had him at 11)? Doesn't matter where in the top 10 you move him as either way it knocks someone out of it.
GunnerBill Posted February 19, 2017 Posted February 19, 2017 To me Ben is top 5 ahead of Wilson and Rivers would be my number 6 or 7 let alone top 10.
Prickly Pete Posted February 20, 2017 Posted February 20, 2017 Yeah I don't disagree with that. The only reason I have him at 11 is because of 2 reasons...I moved Carr into the top 10 coming off what I felt was a legitimate MVP consideration season before he got hurt late. And the second was Stafford at the 10th spot because I felt he elevated his play more without having Calvin that he was trying to force things too all the time. I have no issue with putting Rivers in the top 10, he's certainly had a big career and been saddled on a bad roster for a while. So if we move him into the top 10, what are your thoughts on who you would move out of the top 10 to get Rivers into it (as I had him at 11)? Doesn't matter where in the top 10 you move him as either way it knocks someone out of it. Flacco and Newton
Prickly Pete Posted February 20, 2017 Posted February 20, 2017 (edited) we should have drafted him, much better prospect than Cousins and wont have to wait 3 yrs to be ready like Cardale. Offer Oakland 2018's 3rd with a playing clause (if he starts 2 games it becomes a 2nd). Do it. Cook has had a year to sit, and get acclimated to the NFL (and didn't act like a jerk, probably got humbled, and matured). The main concerns weren't his skills, but his attitude, and he seemed to do fine, no drama. His stock isn't so high right now, because he had to play under impossible conditions in the playoffs (I bet he tears it up in the preseason, and his value will rise). http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Raiders-Cook-Learned-NFL-is-Strictly-a-Business-413414713.html He is more advanced than ANY of the guys in this draft, yet fools want to spend a high pick for Watson, Trubucky (whatever his name is), or Mahomes. Big mistake. None of them will be ready for a couple seasons, if ever. Edited February 20, 2017 by HoF Watkins
kota Posted February 20, 2017 Posted February 20, 2017 Sign me up. I think he is worth 2 first rounders to get if they franchise him.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted February 20, 2017 Posted February 20, 2017 Feb. 17 (UPI) -- "The best free agent quarterback available allegedly does not want to play for the Washington Redskins. ESPN's Jason Reid reported Thursday that Kirk Cousins "doesn't want to be in Ashburn." He also said Cousins wants the franchise tag for 2017." http://www.upi.com/Sports_News/NFL/2017/02/17/Report-Kirk-Cousins-wants-out-of-Washington/3991487352109/?ref=yfp Get it !@#$ing done asap
ALF Posted February 20, 2017 Posted February 20, 2017 I would think 49's try to trade for him and he would want to play for Kyle . S.F. has plenty of cap space to make it happen and the 2nd pick overall to offer.
Alphadawg7 Posted February 20, 2017 Posted February 20, 2017 Flacco and Newton Only one would get bumped as I had Rivers at 11, so him moving into the top 10 (regardless of where) bumps only 1 QB out.
Prickly Pete Posted February 20, 2017 Posted February 20, 2017 (edited) Only one would get bumped as I had Rivers at 11, so him moving into the top 10 (regardless of where) bumps only 1 QB out. Gee, you are a stickler. Take you your pick, he's better than either of them. I don't really care about the list, I just wanted defend Rivers. Edited February 20, 2017 by HoF Watkins
Alphadawg7 Posted February 20, 2017 Posted February 20, 2017 Gee, you are a stickler. Take you your pick, he's better than either of them. I don't really care about the list, I just wanted defend Rivers. Ha, not a stickler, was just shooting the s**t and was just more curious to your take on Newton...hes the guy that is a major wild card on rankings.
JohnC Posted February 20, 2017 Posted February 20, 2017 Offer Oakland 2018's 3rd with a playing clause (if he starts 2 games it becomes a 2nd). Do it. Cook has had a year to sit, and get acclimated to the NFL (and didn't act like a jerk, probably got humbled, and matured). The main concerns weren't his skills, but his attitude, and he seemed to do fine, no drama. His stock isn't so high right now, because he had to play under impossible conditions in the playoffs (I bet he tears it up in the preseason, and his value will rise). http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Raiders-Cook-Learned-NFL-is-Strictly-a-Business-413414713.html He is more advanced than ANY of the guys in this draft, yet fools want to spend a high pick for Watson, Trubucky (whatever his name is), or Mahomes. Big mistake. None of them will be ready for a couple seasons, if ever. I would have no problem giving up a third round pick for Connor Cook. I would also have no problem using a first round pick (trade down or not) for a qb in this year's draft. What I want to see is a more concerted effort to find a long term franchise qb. Is TT the answer? Probably not. But I'm not against keeping him on his current contract with the proviso that this organization doesn't stop in its pursuit of a franchise qb. If TT or Cardale or a recently drafted qb or a qb such as Cook demonstrates that he can handle the position then that is a development that everyone should celebrate. Connor Cook or Prescott would have been reasonable selections in the third round last year. The Bills didn't act until the fourth round to select Cardale. That's the standard hesitating behavior that has kept this franchised sitting out the playoff experience. Being flexible and creative instead of being passive in addressing the qb issue is what is required to get the position adequately staffed.
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