Trump and Russia

[DC Tom]

 

That sounds like a challenge...

 

My first draft of that was "It wasn't that covert. For God's sake, he invited them to his wedding..." but I thought "That's way to subtle for gatorman, I'd better make it clearer I'm referring to the Clintons as the criminal regime."

 

And he still doesn't get it.

 

!@#$ing phenomenal.

[ALF]

setting up a secret communications channel between Washington and the Kremlin.

Such a back channel would be unprecedented, said retired four-star Gen. Michael Hayden, who also once headed the National Security Agency.

"This is off the map," Hayden told CNN's Michael Smerconish. "I know of no other experience like this in our history, certainly within my life experience."

http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/27/politics/hayden-on-kushner-cnntv/index.html

[B-Man]

BACK CHANNELS:

 

Historian Doug Wead tells Fox News other presidential administrations have used them. Teddy Roosevelt. JFK.

 

Why, Obama and the Iran deal!

 

http://video.foxnews.com/v/5451318539001/?#sp=show-clips&v=5451318539001

Edited May 28, 2017 by B-Man

[Doc]

A secret communication channel? Like, say, a private server set up in someone's house?

[Tiberius]

A secret communication channel? Like, say, a private server set up in someone's house?

she should have been locked up, right?

[DC Tom]

setting up a secret communications channel between Washington and the Kremlin.

 

Such a back channel would be unprecedented, said retired four-star Gen. Michael Hayden, who also once headed the National Security Agency.

 

"This is off the map," Hayden told CNN's Michael Smerconish. "I know of no other experience like this in our history, certainly within my life experience."

 

http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/27/politics/hayden-on-kushner-cnntv/index.html

Seriously?

 

Let's start with Iran. China. Great Britain. Italy. Iraq.

[ALF]

Seriously?

 

Let's start with Iran. China. Great Britain. Italy. Iraq.

 

I'm sure you are correct , not sure to what degree Michael Hayden meant.

[Chef Jim]

she should have been locked up, right?

Should it have been investigated along with the Clinton Foundation money trail should she have been elected?

[DC Tom]

 

I'm sure you are correct , not sure to what degree Michael Hayden meant.

 

I'm not sure what he meant, either. But it requires a real stretch of the imagination to expect "back-channel communications about Syria" to be any worse than Iran-Contra or providing satellite intel to Iraq in the '80s. It's not even a disingenuous statement he made as much as it is stupid.

[Deranged Rhino]

 

I'm not sure what he meant, either. But it requires a real stretch of the imagination to expect "back-channel communications about Syria" to be any worse than Iran-Contra or providing satellite intel to Iraq in the '80s. It's not even a disingenuous statement he made as much as it is stupid.

 

Hayden has skin in this ongoing game. Looking to him for an objective take on this investigation would be a mistake.

 

He might be the wormiest of all the proven liars being trotted out by the establishment IC.

[Tiberius]

Interesting this Kushner revelation was possibly released by the Russians on the eve of Trump's NATO meeting where he did not affirm his belief in Article V of collective security and instead said the other country's had to pay the US. Could be they fired a shot across Trump's bow letting him know they had the goods on him. Trump compromised?

Should it have been investigated along with the Clinton Foundation money trail should she have been elected?

it was investigated, and fake Russia documents actually were involved. Fake Russia documents may have been at the heart of Comey reopening the investigation. Hmmmm

[Deranged Rhino]

Interesting this Kushner revelation was possibly released by the Russians on the eve of Trump's NATO meeting where he did not affirm his belief in Article V of collective security and instead said the other country's had to pay the US. Could be they fired a shot across Trump's bow letting him know they had the goods on him. Trump compromised?

 

Kushner was outed by the Russians (which makes a rather compelling case he's not on the Russian payroll or colluding with them), but it had nothing to do with the NATO meeting and everything to do with the $108b+ arms deal Kushner pushed through with the out house of Saud.

 

The Russians are aligned with Iran and Syria in the ME - who are in an active proxy war with the out house of Saud and Israel. Kushner, if he's on any foreign nation's payroll, is more than likely in bed with Israel (if he's not outright a Mossad asset he's at least close with Bibi). Israel and Russia have polar opposite agendas in the ME and in the War on Terror.

 

When you analyze this event and the intelligence around it, it's pretty blatant. In fact this one is so obvious anyone thinking clearly can see it...

 

But no one is thinking clearly because everyone wants to be "right" about their chosen team. Especially you.

 

There are no teams that matter. Only humanity versus the rest.

 

 

it was investigated, and fake Russia documents actually were involved. Fake Russia documents may have been at the heart of Comey reopening the investigation. Hmmmm

 

The CF was not investigated thoroughly. Why? For reasons Comey hinted at in July and Gowdy made clear this month: the connections between the DC establishment, DOJ and the CF were too many to properly investigate let alone prosecute without making it the FBI vs all of DC. If a charge is brought against the CF, it will start a chain reaction throughout DOJ, the USIC and the overall establishment of DC - and that's why it's been deemed (by Comey) as too big to jail.

 

This of course is ridiculous and can only be defended by partisans with skin in the game. If a pay-for-play scandal of such magnitude exists that it encompasses vast swaths of the DOJ, USIC and DC establishment, not bringing it down is a dereliction of duty of the worst kind on Comey's part.

 

The fake Russian document story being pushed by CNN is known disinformation, and has been known by circles for several weeks now. That CNN opted to run it anyway is going to end badly for them - give it a few weeks.

Edited May 28, 2017 by Deranged Rhino

[K-9]

Seriously?

 

Let's start with Iran. China. Great Britain. Italy. Iraq.

Context please.

 

At the time, Kushner was a private citizen seeking to establish a back channel with a hostile nation recently outed by our entire intelligence community as having meddled in our democratic process and that had recently had sanctions imposed by the US government in retaliation for that interference. That is simply not a usual circumstance for seeking to establish back channel communications. It reeks.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Context please.

 

At the time, Kushner was a private citizen seeking to establish a back channel with a hostile nation recently outed by our entire intelligence community as having meddled in our democratic process and that had recently had sanctions imposed by the US government in retaliation for that interference. That is simply not a usual circumstance for seeking to establish back channel communications. It reeks.

 

I must have missed where "a hostile nation recently outed by our entire intelligence community as having meddled in our democratic process" occurred.

[Deranged Rhino]

Context please.

 

At the time, Kushner was a private citizen seeking to establish a back channel with a hostile nation recently outed by our entire intelligence community as having meddled in our democratic process and that had recently had sanctions imposed by the US government in retaliation for that interference. That is simply not a usual circumstance for seeking to establish back channel communications. It reeks.

 

I know you don't tangle down here often, so don't take this as an attack. I'm politically agnostic and not a Trump guy. I'm not a Kushner guy either - in fact I'm happy if he is shown the door I'd just like it to be for the right reason. This story is not that right reason.

 

- Russia is not "hostile". An adversary? Sure. Hostile or an eminent threat? No.

 

- DNI, DHS and NSA do not speak for all 17 branches of the intel community, and even within those branches there has never been a consensus on that issue. This is not partisan spin, it's the truth. What you're stating as fact is the spin.

 

- Kushner was a private citizen... who was on the then president elect's transition team. He had every right at the time to seek such a back channel as it's been the norm since JFK - and not just with Russia.

 

This entire Kushner story is based on a SIGINT intercept of the suspected Russian FSB chief of station for DC discussing Kushner's request on an open line. A line he, being a spy, knew was being monitored. This is the same guy whom the media has been arguing is behind several "fake news" stories over the past year...

 

This is spy vs spy here. Kushner is not a Russian asset and never has been. If he were, why would the Russians be the ones burning him now?

 

This is much more likely to be payback for the Saudi Arms deal, which no one in the Kremlin is a fan of and Kushner helped push over the goal line. Kushner, if he is a foreign asset for anyone, has done nothing in Russia's interest since the election. In fact, he's shown himself to be much more loyal to Israel's objectives in the ME - which are in direct opposition to Moscow's.

 

In your post you describe Russia as hostile and our enemy. Yet, they're the source of this story - and they have the most to gain from it being run through the gossip mill. So why, if you believe them to be a hostile enemy, are you aiding and abetting their attempt to take Kushner out? Wouldn't the enemy of your enemy be your friend?

Edited May 28, 2017 by Deranged Rhino

[K-9]

 

I must have missed where "a hostile nation recently outed by our entire intelligence community as having meddled in our democratic process" occurred.

Have you been in a coma?

 

Did all of our intelligence agencies unanimously agree that Russia meddled in the election process or not?

 

Did the Obama administration impose new sanctions on Russia as a result of those intelligence findings or not?

 

Yes, Russia is considered a hostile nation given their actions in recent years. From annexing Crimea, to sending troops into Ukraine, to killing journalists and dissidents. The list goes on.

 

I know you don't tangle down here often, so don't take this as an attack. I'm politically agnostic and not a Trump guy. I'm not a Kushner guy either - in fact I'm happy if he is shown the door I'd just like it to be for the right reason. This story is not that right reason.

 

- Russia is not "hostile". An adversary? Sure. Hostile or an eminent threat? No.

 

- DNI, DHS and NSA do not speak for all 17 branches of the intel community, and even within those branches there has never been a consensus on that issue. This is not partisan spin, it's the truth. What you're stating as fact is the spin.

 

- Kushner was a private citizen... who was on the then president elect's transition team. He had every right at the time to seek such a back channel as it's been the norm since JFK - and not just with Russia.

 

This entire Kushner story is based on a SIGINT intercept of the suspected Russian FSB chief of station for DC discussing Kushner's request on an open line. A line he, being a spy, knew was being monitored. This is the same guy whom the media has been arguing is behind several "fake news" stories over the past year...

 

This is spy vs spy here. Kushner is not a Russian asset and never has been. If he were, why would the Russians be the ones burning him now?

 

This is much more likely to be payback for the Saudi Arms deal, which no one in the Kremlin is a fan of and Kushner helped push over the goal line. Kushner, if he is a foreign asset for anyone, has done nothing in Russia's interest since the election. In fact, he's shown himself to be much more loyal to Israel's objectives in the ME - which are in direct opposition to Moscow's.

 

In your post you describe Russia as hostile and our enemy. Yet, they're the source of this story - and they have the most to gain from it being run through the gossip. So why, if you believe them to be a hostile enemy, are you aiding and abetting their attempt to take Kushner out? Wouldn't the enemy of your enemy be your friend?

 

This is much more likely to be payback for the Saudi Arms deal, which no one in the Kremlin is a fan of and Kushner helped push over the goal line.

Adversarial would have been perfectly acceptable previously.

 

Hacking systems and other forms of meddling in the election process were and are considered hostile acts.

 

And the events I'm talking about precede by months the arms deal with the Saudis.

[Deranged Rhino]

 

Did all of our intelligence agencies unanimously agree that Russia meddled in the election process or not?

 

They did not.

 

 

Did the Obama administration impose new sanctions on Russia as a result of those intelligence findings or not?

 

 

They did, but those "findings" were not the summary of a consensus within the IC. They were anything but, actually.

 

 

 

 

Yes, Russia is considered a hostile nation given their actions in recent years. From annexing Crimea, to sending troops into Ukraine, to killing journalists and dissidents. The list goes on.

 

Let's be grown ups and at least acknowledge that the US, over the past 16 years, has been a far more destabilizing force in the world than the Russians. And while Russia has killed it's share of journalists, so has the US.

[Benjamin Franklin]

 

 

 

Hacking systems and other forms of meddling in the election process were and are considered hostile acts.

 

 

 

DR does not believe Russia did this. Treatise forthcoming.

Edited May 28, 2017 by Benjamin Franklin

[Deranged Rhino]

Adversarial would have been perfectly acceptable previously.

 

Hacking systems and other forms of meddling in the election process were and are considered hostile acts.

 

And the events I'm talking about precede by months the arms deal with the Saudis.

 

There is zero evidence of any Russian "hacking" of the election or the DNC. That's still all unnamed sources and hearsay.

 

The entire basis of the story you're running with about Kushner originates from the Russian spy chief in the US. That it is hitting the media now, a week after the arms deal got pushed through, is compelling.

 

And I say again, if you think Russia is such an enemy of our nation, why are you so eager to oust a guy the Russians themselves want gone? Shouldn't that at least give you a moment of pause to consider whether or not you've been getting the whole picture?

 

DR does not believe Russia did this. Treatise forthcoming.

 

To date, there has been zero evidence offered that proves any Russian hacking. The people who talk of Russian hacking the election are either regurgitating talking points of their chosen team, or have no idea what they're talking about.

 

In your case it's both.

 

And, more to the point. I've never said I don't believe the Russians did it. Show me the evidence and I'll happily get on board. I said I'm waiting until I see evidence of it before I go blindly believing literally the same group of people who have intentionally lied to the US public about WMDs and mass surveillance for years.

Edited May 28, 2017 by Deranged Rhino

[Foxx]

Have you been in a coma?

 

Did all of our intelligence agencies unanimously agree that Russia meddled in the election process or not?

 

Did the Obama administration impose new sanctions on Russia as a result of those intelligence findings or not?

 

Yes, Russia is considered a hostile nation given their actions in recent years. From annexing Crimea, to sending troops into Ukraine, to killing journalists and dissidents. The list goes on.

Adversarial would have been perfectly acceptable previously.

 

Hacking systems and other forms of meddling in the election process were and are considered hostile acts.

 

And the events I'm talking about precede by months the arms deal with the Saudis.

seriously....

 

you need to move away from the main stream media and do some research of your own.

 

wow.