Trump and Russia

[TakeYouToTasker]

10 minutes ago, Bob in Mich said:

 

Finally, finally after all that over the top BS you actually uttered something I can agree with.  Now let's continue the Trump-Russia investigation.

You might just be the dumbest sonofabitch on the entire internet.

 

That's not even the smallest bit hyperbolic.

Edited February 14, 2018 by TakeYouToTasker

[Warren Zevon]

Just now, TakeYouToTasker said:

You might just be the dumbest sonofabitch on the entire internet.

 

That's not even the smallest bit hyperbolous.

 

You must be the best poet on the entire internet.

 

Is hyperbolous hyperbole for hyperbolic? 

[TakeYouToTasker]

1 minute ago, garybusey said:

 

You must be the best poet on the entire internet.

 

Is hyperbolous hyperbole for hyperbolic? 

I am, as are all people, fallible; sometimes I even make typos.

[Tiberius]

56 minutes ago, B-Man said:

Bob.....................................Gator...............................Baskin

 

 

I probably shouldn't have put a "speak no evil'.............considering the bilge that has been presented...............but hey there are three of them why not.

 

 

I mean................if they can't comprehend this;
 

 

 

Then they are hopeless.

 

 

 

 

 

.

[Deranged Rhino]

7 hours ago, Bob in Mich said:

DR, please, please, don't respond point by point to this post. 

 

You can't micromanage how I choose to respond, sorry. 

 

7 hours ago, Bob in Mich said:

 

You have made my attempt at an interesting diversion into a non stop battle. 

 

You began this by wandering into a dormant thread and taking POTshots at my writing, the evidence I presented, and my opinions. Then when I pushed back against this, trying to engage you in a discussion - not a debate - you ran away from it, plugged your ears, and refused to listen.

 

Then you came back to take more shots at me. 

 

Don't start something you can't finish. 

 

7 hours ago, Bob in Mich said:

  It is no longer fun for me. 

 

I know. Getting your ass handed to you in an intellectual discussion you started is never fun. 

 

And it's about to get worse. 

 

So buckle up, buttercup. 

 

7 hours ago, Bob in Mich said:

 

You have already and will in the future, put way more time investigating than I will.  I don't wish to spend any more time investigating this issue.  As I said before, there are professionals doing that and I will read their reports. 

 

Translation: "You've read more than I have on this issue, you've done more research, you've talked to more sources than I have, yet despite acknowledging this as true I refuse to listen to anything you say or read anything you offer because I've already formed my conclusion on this issue."

 

That's the trifecta of laziness, appealing to authority, and dereliction of your duty as a citizen of the republic.

 

All you need is a vagina hat and you have the complete progressive-fascistic starting kit! 

 

This is a dangerously lazy way to approach what is the most explosive political scandal in US history. 

 

7 hours ago, Bob in Mich said:

With your arguments however, it is the same thing again and again. 

 

Now you're just admitting, again, that you have not bothered to consider all that I've written and laid out on this site for over a year now. I've covered this story for over a year from multiple angles with multiple sources and have chronicled how the "Russian" narrative has evolved. I haven't just repeated the same thing over and over, I've expanded on an initial theory, built that out with evidence and sources, and how the events then unfolded dictated how I tackled writing about each issue. 

 

Saying it's "the same thing again and again" just proves what you said above: you haven't researched this topic enough.

 

You haven't read enough.

 

You haven't done your basic due diligence on this subject. 

 

Yet you presume to speak authoritatively about the work I've done. 

 

That's not only intellectually lazy, it's dishonest. Be better. Be smarter. Come back with ACTUAL evidence and I'll listen. Come back at me something other than partisan spin and long debunked talking points and we can have a real discussion. Which is what I've been trying to generate with you for a few days now. 

 

... Or you can continue to cast aspersions and continue to make a fool out of yourself. Choice is yours. 

 

7 hours ago, Bob in Mich said:

You may turn into a national hero in the end and I will be happy to tell folks that I had it all wrong. 

 

If you think I'm doing this for glory or to "win" an internet argument you're sorely mistaken. Worse, this comment shows you have no understanding what's truly at stake with this story. 

 

I've spent time writing, researching, and expounding on this topic because I care deeply about this country. I'm not doing it for bragging rights. I'm not doing it for money. I'm doing it because I believe every citizen, even you, deserves to have a voice in the republic. 

 

This isn't about politics for me. It's not about Trump. It's not about Obama. It's not about Clinton. It's about right and wrong. It's about the life or death of this very republic. 

 

The reality is we are at war. Right now in this very moment. It's a war unlike any other fought in human history. It's an information war, and what is at stake is nothing short of our democratic republic. We are fighting right now over whether or not we wish to live in a real functioning democratic republic where the will of the people have a say - or whether or not we live in a mirage. 

 

The only way to fight an information war is to have the best information available. That requires sharing information with one another outside of the control systems. That's why I'm here, on an obscure message board sharing the stuff I've spent a year chasing down and analyzing. I'm doing it not because I want to win an argument with you or anyone else, I'm doing it because I care about this community and the people in it (even you) and am trying to open as many eyes as I can before the bottom falls out completely.

 

What I am doing now, beating you over the head with your own stupidity, is for your own good. I'm trying to wake you up, help you see the limitations of the argument you're making. Because, make no mistake, right now you are actively working for an enemy looking to destroy this country.  By allowing yourself to be willfully ignorant and blindly parroting partisan talking points which have long been debunked, is carrying the water for the enemies of this country. Not distant enemies in a foreign land, these enemies are here, now, and actively fighting to keep you deaf, dumb, and blind.

 

You are serving the interests of those who are attacking us. Those who are trying to steal this country from us. You are, right now, their useful idiot. And as such, I will continue to expose this with every post you make on the issue. There's too much at stake.

 

You are at a crossroads right now, Bob. You can either ignore this all, and go about your life in ignorant bliss and hope it works out for the best. Or you can get involved on one side or the other. So far, you've chosen to spout the lies coming from those who wish to rob you of your right to privacy, due process, and having a say in the electoral processes of the republic. That's who you're defending - whether you realize it or not.

 

4 hours ago, Bob in Mich said:

Many posters, including Greg, claim that his tale/evidence means that the Mueller investigation is meaningless because it's a coup attempt. 

 

Link? Show me where I've ever called for the Mueller probe to be disbanded immediately... I'll wait....

 

 

 

 

... Still got nothing? 

 

Of course you have nothing to link because that's a position I've never taken. Yet it's one you keep trying to ascribe to me. 

 

I have said that IF IT'S PROVEN that the Russian Collusion narrative was concocted by people looking to undermine or impeach an incoming President then the entire basis of Mueller's probe is washed away. This is unarguable. 

 

I have NOT said that there is enough evidence, yet, to shut Mueller down. I've said that the evidence we are seeing, which is being rolled out in deliberate drips and drabs to tell a story and prepare the field for the IG report to come, paints a compelling picture that this whole narrative was concocted yet. 

 

And, if you bothered to READ what I write, rather than make baseless claims about what I write, you'd see I've spent dozens - if not hundreds - of posts positing that Mueller's probe is key to proving my theory. Mueller is the only person on the planet right now who is trusted by most of Trump's enemies. If he comes out and says Trump is clean, there is no where for these detractors to run. I've also laid out, with evidence, how Mueller is not investigating what you think he is. 

 

Mueller seems to be investigating corruption on K-Street and the politicization of the FBI/DOJ under Obama. This case can be made by examining the indictments to date and how they've had nothing to do with Russian collusion but everything to do with the corruption of K-Street and within the DOJ/FBI. 

 

4 hours ago, Bob in Mich said:

 I maintain that his tale of an IC conspiracy is insufficient reason to halt Mueller's investigation. 

 

Of course you maintain this. You've already admitted that you haven't done enough reading about this, haven't done your own research, and in fact outsourced your civic responsibilities to the "professionals" investigating the matter. 

 

Unlike you, I've maintained from the beginning that I am open to any and all evidence for collusion or any malfeasance on Trump's part. I do this because the only thing I know is that I don't know everything. And testing your theories and ideas against contrary evidence and theories is the ONLY WAY to verify the validity of them in the first place.

 

So I've waited, I've searched, I've read all that I can from opposing views and to date there hasn't been a shred of evidence for collusion made. Not one. 

 

Meanwhile, I've been able to find mountains of evidence, REAL evidence, to make the opposing case. 

 

All I've done is lay that evidence out - and ask you and others to consider it. 

 

Yet you refuse. Why? because you've already made up your mind. 

 

You have a few months left here before the bottom drops out from under your position. What you choose to do with that time is up to you. You can either get to work, open your mind, and start considering the evidence as it piles up - or you can double down on ignorance and continue to do the work of the enemies of this great country. 

 

I'll be curious to see what you choose. 

[IDBillzFan]

1 hour ago, Bob in Mich said:

 

Finally, finally after all that over the top BS you actually uttered something I can agree with.  Now let's continue the Trump-Russia investigation.

 

I know you feel like a lone lefty with no one but gatorman to 'like' your posts, but as a long-time conservative, I want to offer you my support of this effort to nail Trump to the cross with this Russia thing. I mean, I want him totally impeached and removed from office.

 

Because watching the left wake up to President Mike Pence would be the most freaking hysterical moment since Trump beat Hillary.

Edited February 14, 2018 by LABillzFan

[B-Man]

Finally, some good news for Flynn.

 

 

 

The Curious Michael Flynn Guilty Plea by Andrew C. McCarthy

Original Article     .

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

14 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

You can't micromanage how I choose to respond, sorry. 

 

 

You began this by wandering into a dormant thread and taking POTshots at my writing, the evidence I presented, and my opinions. Then when I pushed back against this, trying to engage you in a discussion - not a debate - you ran away from it, plugged your ears, and refused to listen.

 

Then you came back to take more shots at me. 

 

Don't start something you can't finish. 

 

 

I know. Getting your ass handed to you in an intellectual discussion you started is never fun. 

 

And it's about to get worse. 

 

So buckle up, buttercup. 

 

 

Translation: "You've read more than I have on this issue, you've done more research, you've talked to more sources than I have, yet despite acknowledging this as true I refuse to listen to anything you say or read anything you offer because I've already formed my conclusion on this issue."

 

That's the trifecta of laziness, appealing to authority, and dereliction of your duty as a citizen of the republic.

 

All you need is a vagina hat and you have the complete progressive-fascistic starting kit! 

 

This is a dangerously lazy way to approach what is the most explosive political scandal in US history. 

 

 

Now you're just admitting, again, that you have not bothered to consider all that I've written and laid out on this site for over a year now. I've covered this story for over a year from multiple angles with multiple sources and have chronicled how the "Russian" narrative has evolved. I haven't just repeated the same thing over and over, I've expanded on an initial theory, built that out with evidence and sources, and how the events then unfolded dictated how I tackled writing about each issue. 

 

Saying it's "the same thing again and again" just proves what you said above: you haven't researched this topic enough.

 

You haven't read enough.

 

You haven't done your basic due diligence on this subject. 

 

Yet you presume to speak authoritatively about the work I've done. 

 

That's not only intellectually lazy, it's dishonest. Be better. Be smarter. Come back with ACTUAL evidence and I'll listen. Come back at me something other than partisan spin and long debunked talking points and we can have a real discussion. Which is what I've been trying to generate with you for a few days now. 

 

... Or you can continue to cast aspersions and continue to make a fool out of yourself. Choice is yours. 

 

 

If you think I'm doing this for glory or to "win" an internet argument you're sorely mistaken. Worse, this comment shows you have no understanding what's truly at stake with this story. 

 

I've spent time writing, researching, and expounding on this topic because I care deeply about this country. I'm not doing it for bragging rights. I'm not doing it for money. I'm doing it because I believe every citizen, even you, deserves to have a voice in the republic. 

 

This isn't about politics for me. It's not about Trump. It's not about Obama. It's not about Clinton. It's about right and wrong. It's about the life or death of this very republic. 

 

The reality is we are at war. Right now in this very moment. It's a war unlike any other fought in human history. It's an information war, and what is at stake is nothing short of our democratic republic. We are fighting right now over whether or not we wish to live in a real functioning democratic republic where the will of the people have a say - or whether or not we live in a mirage. 

 

The only way to fight an information war is to have the best information available. That requires sharing information with one another outside of the control systems. That's why I'm here, on an obscure message board sharing the stuff I've spent a year chasing down and analyzing. I'm doing it not because I want to win an argument with you or anyone else, I'm doing it because I care about this community and the people in it (even you) and am trying to open as many eyes as I can before the bottom falls out completely.

 

What I am doing now, beating you over the head with your own stupidity, is for your own good. I'm trying to wake you up, help you see the limitations of the argument you're making. Because, make no mistake, right now you are actively working for an enemy looking to destroy this country.  By allowing yourself to be willfully ignorant and blindly parroting partisan talking points which have long been debunked, is carrying the water for the enemies of this country. Not distant enemies in a foreign land, these enemies are here, now, and actively fighting to keep you deaf, dumb, and blind.

 

You are serving the interests of those who are attacking us. Those who are trying to steal this country from us. You are, right now, their useful idiot. And as such, I will continue to expose this with every post you make on the issue. There's too much at stake.

 

You are at a crossroads right now, Bob. You can either ignore this all, and go about your life in ignorant bliss and hope it works out for the best. Or you can get involved on one side or the other. So far, you've chosen to spout the lies coming from those who wish to rob you of your right to privacy, due process, and having a say in the electoral processes of the republic. That's who you're defending - whether you realize it or not.

 

 

Link? Show me where I've ever called for the Mueller probe to be disbanded immediately... I'll wait....

 

 

 

 

... Still got nothing? 

 

Of course you have nothing to link because that's a position I've never taken. Yet it's one you keep trying to ascribe to me. 

 

I have said that IF IT'S PROVEN that the Russian Collusion narrative was concocted by people looking to undermine or impeach an incoming President then the entire basis of Mueller's probe is washed away. This is unarguable. 

 

I have NOT said that there is enough evidence, yet, to shut Mueller down. I've said that the evidence we are seeing, which is being rolled out in deliberate drips and drabs to tell a story and prepare the field for the IG report to come, paints a compelling picture that this whole narrative was concocted yet. 

 

And, if you bothered to READ what I write, rather than make baseless claims about what I write, you'd see I've spent dozens - if not hundreds - of posts positing that Mueller's probe is key to proving my theory. Mueller is the only person on the planet right now who is trusted by most of Trump's enemies. If he comes out and says Trump is clean, there is no where for these detractors to run. I've also laid out, with evidence, how Mueller is not investigating what you think he is. 

 

Mueller seems to be investigating corruption on K-Street and the politicization of the FBI/DOJ under Obama. This case can be made by examining the indictments to date and how they've had nothing to do with Russian collusion but everything to do with the corruption of K-Street and within the DOJ/FBI. 

 

 

Of course you maintain this. You've already admitted that you haven't done enough reading about this, haven't done your own research, and in fact outsourced your civic responsibilities to the "professionals" investigating the matter. 

 

Unlike you, I've maintained from the beginning that I am open to any and all evidence for collusion or any malfeasance on Trump's part. I do this because the only thing I know is that I don't know everything. And testing your theories and ideas against contrary evidence and theories is the ONLY WAY to verify the validity of them in the first place.

 

So I've waited, I've searched, I've read all that I can from opposing views and to date there hasn't been a shred of evidence for collusion made. Not one. 

 

Meanwhile, I've been able to find mountains of evidence, REAL evidence, to make the opposing case. 

 

All I've done is lay that evidence out - and ask you and others to consider it. 

 

Yet you refuse. Why? because you've already made up your mind. 

 

You have a few months left here before the bottom drops out from under your position. What you choose to do with that time is up to you. You can either get to work, open your mind, and start considering the evidence as it piles up - or you can double down on ignorance and continue to do the work of the enemies of this great country. 

 

I'll be curious to see what you choose. 

I feel like I'm being disrespectful to Roberto Duran and the true legacy of his time in the ring, but the words "No mas" pop into my head every 7th message BiM sends.

[Deranged Rhino]

1 hour ago, B-Man said:

Finally, some good news for Flynn.

 

 

 

The Curious Michael Flynn Guilty Plea by Andrew C. McCarthy

Original Article     .

 

Even more is breaking right now about this... will be back after I read up:

 

 

 

 

 

The lawyers in the house will take note of this and its significance...

 

More to come on this

Edited February 14, 2018 by Deranged Rhino
Added Page 1

[Deranged Rhino]

fixed the above post - was missing a page. 

[Deranged Rhino]

1 hour ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

Even more is breaking right now about this... will be back after I read up:

 

 

 

 

 

The lawyers in the house will take note of this and its significance...

 

More to come on this

 

So what does all this mean or tell us about Mueller's probe? 

 

A number of things:

 

1) First, it says that Mueller is doing his job. 

 

2) Mueller thinks it's possible that the charges against Flynn were the result of a corrupt process. 

 

* I have been arguing for months that Flynn had to get arrested to make this case stick, that he did so without anyone else knowing about his intentions. 

* We know that McCabe changed 302s - 302s are the witness forms filled out by agents after they interview someone. Interviews aren't recorded, FBI 302s are seen as iron clad evidence, as good as a transcript... and now we know, and Mueller knows, and Horowitz knows, McCabe was changing those. Throw that in with the article I and B-Man linked yesterday about Comey telling Congress Flynn never lied - and it ties together nicely. 

 

3) Mueller thinks it's possible that others, besides Flynn, were harmed by this corrupt process which is why he is allowing Flynn and his team to share the evidence with anyone else directly impacted by this possible corruption. 

 

This motion was initiated by Mueller (not Flynn) and approved by the (new) Judge on the case after Contreras was taken off of it. This, coupled with the motion to delay Flynn's sentencing paints quite the picture that Mueller is efforting to investigate the abuse by Strzok and others in this "small group" more so than he's investigating Flynn or Trump. 

 

To recap, here's what Flynn did: He engaged in completely legal actions (the phone call with Kislyak), then the media - specifically David Ignatius of the WaPo - were fed LIES about what happened, painting Flynn's actions as ILLEGAL. The publication of these lies gave the FBI cover to go after Flynn directly. 

 

We've seen the conversations between Strzok and Page - they're written like teenagers who HATE conservatives. Flynn knew this too... 

 

Flynn, being a master spook who was simultaneously monitoring the communications of this "small group" of adversaries coming after the Administration, knew all he had to do was GOAD these people and they would over-reach because that's what fanatics (especially on the left) always do: they over reach. But Flynn had to get into the system as a defendant to expose them, hence his decision to lie about a call on the 24th of January 2017 that he knew was in no way illegal and a call that he knew had been recorded and transcribed for the very people asking him about it. 

 

Now, with this motion, Mueller is turning over ALL the evidence of this to Flynn's defense team with the right to pass it on to OTHERS being targeted by this "small group". 

 

That means that the Obama administration is right now being attacked on all sides by Sessions, Rosenstein, Mueller, the Senate, the House... and even Susan Rice. 

 

This is still the start of this exposure process, but it's clear now that Flynn's team - at the very least - is planning on fighting the charges he plead guilty to. 

 

Watch Mueller clear Flynn and indict Strzok... the talking heads on the left and in the MSM will explode.

[DC Tom]

2 hours ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

So what does all this mean or tell us about Mueller's probe? 

 

A number of things:

 

1) First, it says that Mueller is doing his job. 

 

2) Mueller thinks it's possible that the charges against Flynn were the result of a corrupt process. 

 

* I have been arguing for months that Flynn had to get arrested to make this case stick, that he did so without anyone else knowing about his intentions. 

* We know that McCabe changed 302s - 302s are the witness forms filled out by agents after they interview someone. Interviews aren't recorded, FBI 302s are seen as iron clad evidence, as good as a transcript... and now we know, and Mueller knows, and Horowitz knows, McCabe was changing those. Throw that in with the article I and B-Man linked yesterday about Comey telling Congress Flynn never lied - and it ties together nicely. 

 

3) Mueller thinks it's possible that others, besides Flynn, were harmed by this corrupt process which is why he is allowing Flynn and his team to share the evidence with anyone else directly impacted by this possible corruption. 

 

This motion was initiated by Mueller (not Flynn) and approved by the (new) Judge on the case after Contreras was taken off of it. This, coupled with the motion to delay Flynn's sentencing paints quite the picture that Mueller is efforting to investigate the abuse by Strzok and others in this "small group" more so than he's investigating Flynn or Trump. 

 

To recap, here's what Flynn did: He engaged in completely legal actions (the phone call with Kislyak), then the media - specifically David Ignatius of the WaPo - were fed LIES about what happened, painting Flynn's actions as ILLEGAL. The publication of these lies gave the FBI cover to go after Flynn directly. 

 

We've seen the conversations between Strzok and Page - they're written like teenagers who HATE conservatives. Flynn knew this too... 

 

Flynn, being a master spook who was simultaneously monitoring the communications of this "small group" of adversaries coming after the Administration, knew all he had to do was GOAD these people and they would over-reach because that's what fanatics (especially on the left) always do: they over reach. But Flynn had to get into the system as a defendant to expose them, hence his decision to lie about a call on the 24th of January 2017 that he knew was in no way illegal and a call that he knew had been recorded and transcribed for the very people asking him about it. 

 

Now, with this motion, Mueller is turning over ALL the evidence of this to Flynn's defense team with the right to pass it on to OTHERS being targeted by this "small group". 

 

That means that the Obama administration is right now being attacked on all sides by Sessions, Rosenstein, Mueller, the Senate, the House... and even Susan Rice. 

 

This is still the start of this exposure process, but it's clear now that Flynn's team - at the very least - is planning on fighting the charges he plead guilty to. 

 

Watch Mueller clear Flynn and indict Strzok... the talking heads on the left and in the MSM will explode.

 

I read it is Mueller and the DoJ were worried that Flynn and his defense team were going to leak information.

[Deranged Rhino]

6 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

I read it is Mueller and the DoJ were worried that Flynn and his defense team were going to leak information.

 

Sure. In part this is to prevent leaks. But that's not the impetus. 

 

If it were, then the entire motion never would have been filed. Mueller initiated it. They're setting the framework for Flynn's defense team to share still sealed evidence from Mueller's probe - not just with Flynn but with others as well. Because of that, they're laying out strict ground rules to avoid leaking (from Flynn or others).

[Tiberius]

Nothing to worry about for 2018 elections! 

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-43062113

 

Quote

 

The Russian military was directly behind a "malicious" cyber-attack on Ukraine last summer that spread across Europe, British ministers have said.

The UK government has taken the unusual step of publicly accusing Russia of June's NotPetya ransomware attack.

Reckitt Benckiser - maker of Dettol, Durex and Strepsils - was among the UK firms whose sales were affected.

Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson said Russia was "ripping up the rule book" and the UK was duty-bound to respond.

 

 

[Deranged Rhino]

Scientific evidence the Russian Facebook ad push had no impact on the outcome of the election:

 

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3042867

 

 

[Tiberius]

1 minute ago, Deranged Rhino said:

Scientific evidence the Russian Facebook ad push had no impact on the outcome of the election:

 

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3042867

 

 

Is this "scientific evidence" as solid as global warming evidence? 

 

Eh, comrade? 

[row_33]

everything i agree with emotionally is scientific evidence

 

if we disagree then you are totally illogical and on drugs

 

 

[Warren Zevon]

8 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

Scientific evidence the Russian Facebook ad push had no impact on the outcome of the election:

 

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3042867

 

 

 

In both existing and our original experiments, persuasive effects only appear to emerge in two rare circumstances. First, when candidates take unusually unpopular positions and campaigns invest unusually heavily in identifying persuadable voters.

 

That sounds a lot like an election that just occurred...

[DC Tom]

1 hour ago, garybusey said:

 

In both existing and our original experiments, persuasive effects only appear to emerge in two rare circumstances. First, when candidates take unusually unpopular positions and campaigns invest unusually heavily in identifying persuadable voters.

 

That sounds a lot like an election that just occurred...

 

Not really.  I mean, Hillary did take the unpopular position that she should be President...but she thought it was such a foregone conclusion she didn't invest nearly enough in persuading voters.

[row_33]

1 hour ago, DC Tom said:

 

Not really.  I mean, Hillary did take the unpopular position that she should be President...but she thought it was such a foregone conclusion she didn't invest nearly enough in persuading voters.

 

She should got off her butt and visited key states instead of having the FBI do her dirty deeds