Trump and Russia

[TakeYouToTasker]

To be fair, preventative healthcare is significantly cheaper than going to the ER with something terrible.

Yes, but here's the rub:

 

With the passage of the ACA, incidents of people using the ER did not decrease.

 

As it turns out, government entitlement programs do not make people act more responsibly.

[gatorbait]

 

Did you study access to healthcare or timely access to healthcare?

 

There's never, ever such a thing as a free lunch.

GG, I mentioned waiting times are ridiculous for the average citizen, and no health system is perfect. Of course it isn't free, and it mostly comes from taxes. But explain to me why in Germany or Japan, they can get medications and surgeries for a third of the price? When they go into a doctors office they see a list of what everything costs, all the way down to an aspirin. The quality of care we receive in the United States actually isn't all that great if you compare it to other major developed nations.

 

A poster above had a great mention of preventative care, that is a big step in the right direction.

[Dorkington]

Yes, but here's the rub:

 

With the passage of the ACA, incidents of people using the ER did not decrease.

 

As it turns out, government entitlement programs do not make people act more responsibly.

Do you think it's possible that it takes time for most people to change their habits?

[gatorbait]

Yes, but here's the rub:

 

With the passage of the ACA, incidents of people using the ER did not decrease.

 

As it turns out, government entitlement programs do not make people act more responsibly.

I'm not a big fan of entitlements, and I think we should get the leeches of the system and leave social programs only for the people that really need it.

 

Healthcare is different though. It is going to become a right in the future, where citizens can get treatment and healthcare for their ailments to live a more healthy and successful life. The number one cause of bankruptcy in the US is defaulting on healthcare bills, and we spend over two trillion a year on healthcare. We will have to do something in the future because it isn't working right now.

[TakeYouToTasker]

GG, I mentioned waiting times are ridiculous for the average citizen, and no health system is perfect. Of course it isn't free, and it mostly comes from taxes. But explain to me why in Germany or Japan, they can get medications and surgeries for a third of the price? When they go into a doctors office they see a list of what everything costs, all the way down to an aspirin. The quality of care we receive in the United States actually isn't all that great if you compare it to other major developed nations.

 

A poster above had a great mention of preventative care, that is a big step in the right direction.

One of the major failings of the American healthcare system is that it isn't capitalistic. Consumers can't shop based on price point. If they could, market forces would drive prices down.

 

As for preventative care, of course it's the best solution for better individual outcomes, but irresponsible people don't act responsibly by definition. You can't make people take care of themselves or see the doctor regularly. As I just mentioned, ER usage did not decrease under the ACA.

[GG]

GG, I mentioned waiting times are ridiculous for the average citizen, and no health system is perfect. Of course it isn't free, and it mostly comes from taxes. But explain to me why in Germany or Japan, they can get medications and surgeries for a third of the price? When they go into a doctors office they see a list of what everything costs, all the way down to an aspirin. The quality of care we receive in the United States actually isn't all that great if you compare it to other major developed nations.

 

A poster above had a great mention of preventative care, that is a big step in the right direction.

 

You can blame Americans for the biggest reason for the bloated cost of healthcare in the US. Good luck getting preventative care to stick.

[TakeYouToTasker]

Do you think it's possible that it takes time for most people to change their habits?

I find it more likely that individuals who have, over their lifetimes, acted irresponsibly enough to place themselves into relative poverty will not stop acting irresponsibly when we erect massive entitlement programs which reward their irresponsibility.

Edited March 22, 2017 by TakeYouToTasker

[B-Man]

The Russians Did Not ‘Hack The Election.’ Repeat. The Russians Did Not ‘Hack The Election’

By David Harsanyi

 

 

There's no evidence yet that the Trump campaign colluded with Russia—much less Donald Trump. Even it turns out it did, it still doesn't mean the election was hacked.

After FBI Director James Comey confirmed the existence of an investigation into potential ties between Donald Trump’s campaign and Russia, conspiracy theorists rejoiced. Yet it’s almost certain they won’t get what they desire.

 

Don’t get me wrong, I’m always rooting for an impeachment. Perhaps the FBI will ferret out emails that show Trump asking Vlad Putin to hack John Podesta’s emails. President Mike Pence would in every way — on trade, foreign policy, entitlements, and just overall competence and non-craziness — offer a more conservative White House than Trump does. Democrats will detest him, just as vigorously, if not more.

But until such a bombshell hits, or we learn that Roger Stone was colluding with WikiLeaks (of course, then many in the media will then retroactively transform the bizarre Stone into the most vital man in Trump’s campaign), let’s remember that nowhere does anything that happened in 2016 come close to affirming the specious contention that Russians “hacked the election.”

 

As T. Becket Adams pointed out in the Washington Examiner: “It’s not incorrect to say Russia likely meddled in or interfered with in the presidential election, based on what the U.S. intelligence community has reported. It’s terribly misleading, on the other hand, to say Russia hacked the election.”

 

 

It’s probably more accurate to contend that Russia tried but failed to interfere in the election. Even so, this is unlikely to stop liberal journalists like David Corn or Glenn Thrush at The New York Times from framing the stories in this way, which attempts to undermine the legitimacy of the entire system.

The Russian hacking of Podesta’s emails is not an election stolen. It is a blatant attempt at interfering in American politics, and should be condemned by everyone. Yet the idea that the proletariat in Pennsylvania or Indiana were so troubled when finding out about the internal conflicts of Democratic Party factions that they cast their vote for Trump is a fantasy.

[gatorbait]

 

You can blame Americans for the biggest reason for the bloated cost of healthcare in the US. Good luck getting preventative care to stick.

Preventative care is more about the doctors pushing better health and lifestyles. Instead of just fixing whatever ailment they have for money, then charging them again for another fix in a few years.

 

It sounds radical now, but in 10 or 20 years you guys will see. Healthcare in this country is going to change, whether conservatives like it or not.

 

Smoking, soda consumption, fast food. These things contribute to our problem, and more Americans are waking up about the importance of good health. Smoking and obesity are two of the major drivers for rising costs. Americans need to run more and put down the cheeseburgers and big gulps.

Edited March 22, 2017 by gatorbait

[GG]

Preventative care is more about the doctors pushing better health and lifestyles. Instead of just fixing whatever ailment they have for money, then charging them again for another fix in a few years.

 

It sounds radical now, but in 10 or 20 years you guys will see. Healthcare in this country is going to change, whether conservatives like it or not.

 

Smoking, soda consumption, fast food. These things contribute to our problem, and more Americans are waking up about the importance of good health. Smoking and obesity are two of the major drivers rising costs. Americans need to run more and put down he cheeseburgers and big gulps.

 

Your statement is the equivalent of finding the one out five dentists who would recommend a sugar-laced gum. Please point me to a doctor who hasn't advised a healthier lifestyle to an overweight person or a smoker in the last 30 years? And how far has that preventative care advice gone?

 

You have to be gator level stupid to not know how bad smoking is for you, and smoking levels have gone down dramatically in the last 30 years. Yet, here we are.

[Tiberius]

The Russians Did Not ‘Hack The Election.’ Repeat. The Russians Did Not ‘Hack The Election’

By David Harsanyi

 

 

There's no evidence yet that the Trump campaign colluded with Russia—much less Donald Trump. Even it turns out it did, it still doesn't mean the election was hacked.

After FBI Director James Comey confirmed the existence of an investigation into potential ties between Donald Trump’s campaign and Russia, conspiracy theorists rejoiced. Yet it’s almost certain they won’t get what they desire.

 

Don’t get me wrong, I’m always rooting for an impeachment. Perhaps the FBI will ferret out emails that show Trump asking Vlad Putin to hack John Podesta’s emails. President Mike Pence would in every way — on trade, foreign policy, entitlements, and just overall competence and non-craziness — offer a more conservative White House than Trump does. Democrats will detest him, just as vigorously, if not more.

But until such a bombshell hits, or we learn that Roger Stone was colluding with WikiLeaks (of course, then many in the media will then retroactively transform the bizarre Stone into the most vital man in Trump’s campaign), let’s remember that nowhere does anything that happened in 2016 come close to affirming the specious contention that Russians “hacked the election.”

 

As T. Becket Adams pointed out in the Washington Examiner: “It’s not incorrect to say Russia likely meddled in or interfered with in the presidential election, based on what the U.S. intelligence community has reported. It’s terribly misleading, on the other hand, to say Russia hacked the election.”

 

 

It’s probably more accurate to contend that Russia tried but failed to interfere in the election. Even so, this is unlikely to stop liberal journalists like David Corn or Glenn Thrush at The New York Times from framing the stories in this way, which attempts to undermine the legitimacy of the entire system.

The Russian hacking of Podesta’s emails is not an election stolen. It is a blatant attempt at interfering in American politics, and should be condemned by everyone. Yet the idea that the proletariat in Pennsylvania or Indiana were so troubled when finding out about the internal conflicts of Democratic Party factions that they cast their vote for Trump is a fantasy.

 

That's just playing with words. They hacked, interfered and meddled altogether. And it looks like some of Trump's people had relationships, financial and otherwise, with these criminals.

[gatorbait]

 

 

Your statement is the equivalent of finding the one out five dentists who would recommend a sugar-laced gum. Please point me to a doctor who hasn't advised a healthier lifestyle to an overweight person or a smoker in the last 30 years? And how far has that preventative care advice gone?

 

You have to be gator level stupid to not know how bad smoking is for you, and smoking levels have gone down dramatically in the last 30 years. Yet, here we are.[/quote/]

 

It's about more than that, and there are other measures I will get into later when I'm not at work. You have to be a !@#$ing moron to think our healthcare system is sufficient. I'm talking directly to you GG if that's what you think.

People smoked on planes and in hospitals for years. Lifelong smokers, even if they have quit recently, are still driving up cost big time. Obesity will be the next major initiative in this country after smoking. You don't have to believe me about healthcare changing, you will see it for yourself.

Edited March 22, 2017 by gatorbait

[Keukasmallies]

 

Everyone is hypocritical - including you.

Angry at Obama WH because of Clinton/Lewinski...huh?....long time to carry a grudge and those are some distant points to connect

 

If you review Russia trying to manipulate our electoral campaigns and your takeaway is glee over the left "melting down"....says more about you than the left

 

Or we could "review" Obama trying to influence the Israeli election, or the Brexit vote. Not a "long time to carry a grudge" as much as it is speaking to the bromide that the pot shouldn't call the kettle black [This post has been reviewed and found to be absent of racist connotations.]

[TakeYouToTasker]

 

 

Your statement is the equivalent of finding the one out five dentists who would recommend a sugar-laced gum. Please point me to a doctor who hasn't advised a healthier lifestyle to an overweight person or a smoker in the last 30 years? And how far has that preventative care advice gone?

 

You have to be gator level stupid to not know how bad smoking is for you, and smoking levels have gone down dramatically in the last 30 years. Yet, here we are.[/quote/]

 

It's about more than that, and there are other measures I will get into later when I'm not at work. You have to be a !@#$ing moron to think our healthcare system is sufficient. I'm talking directly to you GG if that's what you think.

People smoked on planes and in hospitals for years. Lifelong smokers, even if they have quit recently, are still driving up cost big time. Obesity will be the next major initiative in this country after smoking. You don't have to believe me about healthcare changing, you will see it for yourself.

It has decreased in amongst the educated and responsible public, but that's not where the problem lies. The overwhelming majority of those folks already had health insurance, and already used preventative care.

 

The problem lies with the irresponsible, which make up the overwhelming majority of the poor. They are not responsible, and not educated; and because of this, always have, and most likely always will, make poor decisions.

Edited March 22, 2017 by TakeYouToTasker

[Benjamin Franklin]

To be fair, preventative healthcare is significantly cheaper than going to the ER with something terrible.

 

I am in DisneyWorld. The USA is not too far off this judging by the sample.

 

 

You can blame Americans for the biggest reason for the bloated cost of healthcare in the US. Good luck getting preventative care to stick.

 

It might stick once we tell people at the end of their lives that they can have a pain pill but not the chemo/surgery they need because we can no longer fund health care for everyone, and especially end of life everyones.

 

Or not.

 

We've had 75,000 years of homo sapien evolution looking for our next meal and countless evolutionary species and years before that...Safe to say that the last hundred years of excess food is an adjustment period for humanity. Going to take more than a few generations to figure out the woes of excess food.

[DC Tom]

We've had 75,000 years of homo sapien evolution looking for our next meal and countless evolutionary species and years before that...Safe to say that the last hundred years of excess food is an adjustment period for humanity. Going to take more than a few generations to figure out the woes of excess food.

 

Or it's an exceptional state, and within a couple hundred years we'll go back to our natural state of not knowing where the next meal comes from.

[IDBillzFan]

Where did I say that is the answer? Don't start calling me a liberal dumbass because I'm an independent. Single payer systems around the world work. I did my graduate thesis on other health systems and how the US could improve theirs. I would seriously love to continue this discussion if you are game. That's the only way to control costs, and regulate prices for medicines, procedures and medical equipment. Right now we have a medical system where profits are number one, and providing care is secondary. Waiting times are ridiculous for the average citizen, and those other systems still have flaws, but they are significantly more affordable for everyone. Rich people and high level employees still would get amazing private insurance with the best doctors/surgeons and all the concierge services you could imagine.

 

And let's not forget, healthcare costs and premiums have been rising for decades. It's not a matter of if we should change our ways, it's a matter of when and how we should change.

 

First of all, it's tough for me to digest the idea that single payer is something preferred by an independent, but to be fair on this point, the extreme nuts from both sides of the aisles make it difficult for anyone to say "I am a Republican" or "I am a Democrat," because it's almost always followed with, "Except on these things I lean left/right." So at this point, who knows what it really means to be independent beyond "I'm definitely not D or R." But single payer is the opposite of independent.

 

Second of all, this country can not afford to move to a single payer until we first solve the money-sucking issue of government dependency. We need to cut off the freebie supply line to pretty much everyone. We have to set up a ridiculously high bar for any type of government handout, and spend a year or two weeding everyone out. No more 99 weeks of unemployment. No more free room and board and phones. No more extra cash because you had your fifth baby from your fourth boyfriend. Gravy train must be closed off except for the ridiculously poor and incapable.

 

We have WAY too many people living off the government, and because it's a generational thing, it has to be cut sharp and hard.

 

This will never happen because the people who hand out the freebies to the takers do so with the understanding that if they are elected out of office, the takers are on their own.

 

But to add another layer of massive government dependence on top of the layer that is already destroying the strength of our country is irresponsible, and ridiculously stupid.

[gatorbait]

It has decreased in amongst the educated and responsible public, but that's not where the problem lies. The overwhelming majority of those folks already had health insurance, and already used preventative care.

 

The problem lies with the irresponsible, which make up the overwhelming majority of the poor. They are not responsible, and not educated; and because of this, always have, and most likely always will, make poor decisions.

I say give the degenerates a basic level of care and cap them if they meet a limit or don't start improving heir health. We are going to end up paying for them one way or another when they go to the ER imo. Educating them is important, they actually don't get that when they go to the ER, compared with having regular checkups and a doctor who monitors heir health and encourages them to do better.

 

If that still doesn't work, set limits and health requirements/targets for them to meet. If they can't, they receive the bare minimum to stay alive or lose access. Penalties might help.

[TakeYouToTasker]

I say give the degenerates a basic level of care and cap them if they meet a limit or don't start improving heir health. We are going to end up paying for them one way or another when they go to the ER imo. Educating them is important, they actually don't get that when they go to the ER, compared with having regular checkups and a doctor who monitors heir health and encourages them to do better.

 

If that still doesn't work, set limits and health requirements/targets for them to meet. If they can't, they receive the bare minimum to stay alive or lose access. Penalties might help.

If the purpose of healthcare reform is to provide care to those without access, then this is an awfully strange position to take.

 

With this argument, you don't need healthcare reforms at all, other than reforming Medicare/caid.

[gatorbait]

 

First of all, it's tough for me to digest the idea that single payer is something preferred by an independent, but to be fair on this point, the extreme nuts from both sides of the aisles make it difficult for anyone to say "I am a Republican" or "I am a Democrat," because it's almost always followed with, "Except on these things I lean left/right." So at this point, who knows what it really means to be independent beyond "I'm definitely not D or R." But single payer is the opposite of independent.

 

Second of all, this country can not afford to move to a single payer until we first solve the money-sucking issue of government dependency. We need to cut off the freebie supply line to pretty much everyone. We have to set up a ridiculously high bar for any type of government handout, and spend a year or two weeding everyone out. No more 99 weeks of unemployment. No more free room and board and phones. No more extra cash because you had your fifth baby from your fourth boyfriend. Gravy train must be closed off except for the ridiculously poor and incapable.

 

We have WAY too many people living off the government, and because it's a generational thing, it has to be cut sharp and hard.

 

This will never happen because the people who hand out the freebies to the takers do so with the understanding that if they are elected out of office, the takers are on their own.

 

But to add another layer of massive government dependence on top of the layer that is already destroying the strength of our country is irresponsible, and ridiculously stupid.

I absolutely agree that we have too many people living off of the government. I said above that we should get the leeches off the system, and keep social programs for only the people that really need it. I don't think the government intervening is an ideal solution for healthcare, but it is the only way to regulate costs and get prices down for the average American. Entitlements encourage laziness and dependence, but I feel that healthcare is different. The current way is not working, everyone here will see in the next decade or two.

If the purpose of healthcare reform is to provide care to those without access, then this is an awfully strange position to take.

 

With this argument, you don't need healthcare reforms at all, other than reforming Medicare/caid.

Millions don't have insurance or access to Medicaid. Giving them a basic level of care actually would be different. I'm too harsh to be a liberal, and have never had a handout or entitlement in my life. All I am saying is we have to do something because it currently is not working.