Trump and Russia

[grinreaper]

 

It's almost enough to make a person wonder why you even bother.

Mistress Penelope has been booked solid and he has to get his S&M somewhere.

[TakeYouToTasker]

 

It's almost enough to make a person wonder why you even bother.

"almost"...

 

!@#$ you, man.

[Azalin]

"almost"...

 

!@#$ you, man.

 

[Deranged Rhino]

Point taken, gentlemen...

[Tiberius]

 

Why? They have no track record worthy of trust.

Because no one can hide a conspiracy as big as you are claiming is happening. Leaks are everywhere in Washington

 

 

What other evidence? None of what you wrote here is relevant to the DNI/ICA or to whether or not the USIC knowingly pushed falsified evidence to make their case. None of this applies.

 

 

 

Trump's actions and words. Manafort's background and Flynn's actions. All of it applies.

 

Like he reads.

Yes, I can't read.

 

Ok, I can't read most of Dougies nonsense, but I don't take that as a flaw.

 

You are loser

[grinreaper]

Because no one can hide a conspiracy as big as you are claiming is happening. Leaks are everywhere in Washington

Trump's actions and words. Manafort's background and Flynn's actions. All of it applies.

Yes, I can't read.

 

Ok, I can't read most of Dougies nonsense, but I don't take that as a flaw.

 

You are loser

I see you still haven't got your period and are running short on "a's" too.

[Deranged Rhino]

Because no one can hide a conspiracy as big as you are claiming is happening. Leaks are everywhere in Washington

 

This isn't hidden. That's the point. The evidence is clear, and available to see by all. It's just being ignored.

 

That's how it works.

[Tiberius]

I see you still haven't got your period and are running short on "a's" too.

And you still have nothing to contribute

 

Admit it, it sucks for you guys now

 

This isn't hidden. That's the point. The evidence is clear, and available to see by all. It's just being ignored.

 

That's how it works.

That the intelligence agencies are lying?

[K-9]

This isn't hidden. That's the point. The evidence is clear, and available to see by all. It's just being ignored.

 

That's how it works.

 

Why is it being ignored by the White House and the GOP majorities in Congress? Or am I not understanding your point that they are all the same and are all in it regardless of their respective political affiliations? Like I've said previously, one would think they'd be screaming from the rooftops and forcing the story into the mainstream.

 

The again, the notions of Russian hacking into DNC computers and possible collusion by those in the Trump campaign are not necessarily mutually inclusive. One may have nothing to do with the other.

 

Still, the silence by the White House and the GOP leadership on the forensic analysyis of the "hacked" data is deafening.

Edited September 19, 2017 by K-9

[reddogblitz]

That the intelligence agencies are lying?

They would never do that. We wouldn't want to wake up to a mushroom cloud now would we?

 

SH has tubes to make nukes and has (fake) uranium. He is within weeks, not months of having a nuke.

 

The commies blew up our ship in the Gulf of Tonkin.

[Koko78]

They would never do that. We wouldn't want to wake up to a mushroom cloud now would we?

 

SH has tubes to make nukes and has (fake) uranium. He is within weeks, not months of having a nuke.

 

The commies blew up our ship in the Gulf of Tonkin.

 

Remember the Maine!

[Doc Brown]

Why is it being ignored by the White House and the GOP majorities in Congress? Or am I not understanding your point that they are all the same and are all in it regardless of their respective political affiliations? Like I've said previously, one would think they'd be screaming from the rooftops and forcing the story into the mainstream.

 

The again, the notions of Russian hacking into DNC computers and possible collusion by those in the Trump campaign are not necessarily mutually inclusive. One may have nothing to do with the other.

 

Still, the silence by the White House and the GOP leadership on the forensic analysyis of the "hacked" data is deafening.

Rhino can answer this better than I can, but my guess is to question the integrity of US Intelligence Agencies as a U.S. Congressman would be career suicide as you'd be immediately outcast as a conspiracy theorist loon.

[Deranged Rhino]

That the intelligence agencies are lying?

 

Would that be a first for the Intelligence community? Or have you forgotten recent history?

 

Always follow the evidence. The evidence on this issue - the DNI/ICA from January - is clear: it's rubbish. Rubbish that represents the entire foundation of most average folks' opinion for the whole Russian Hacking narrative. Worse, it's rubbish that the media lied to you about for months because it "explained" why they got the election sooooo wrong.

 

 

Why is it being ignored by the White House and the GOP majorities in Congress? Or am I not understanding your point that they are all the same and are all in it regardless of their respective political affiliations? Like I've said previously, one would think they'd be screaming from the rooftops and forcing the story into the mainstream.

 

It's not being ignored. Sanders and many others within the inner circle have been talking about the VIPs report for a few weeks now. And the story is mainstream now: The Nation reported on it, and was picked up by several other mainstream outlets - which then sparked a round of propaganda from the usual suspects (WashPo, NYT) who introduced strawmen into the argument without touching the core of the report's findings and bogged the reader down in technobabble that, once again, has been shown to be much ado about nothing.

 

The larger problem is that there is no "mainstream" anymore. Just peoples' chosen media outlets which is tailored to their particular tastes. Few people wish to have their views challenged, so they seek confirmation in their news sources, not debate. Thus, the lie was repeated loudly, for months, by people who know it's not the truth that sways people - but what they hear first. Everyone has retreated into their own echo chambers on this issue without bothering to look at the information for themselves.

 

Which is what they counted on.

 

And, as Doc mentioned above, to think that Trump's team is unified is to miss the point of what's really happening, what we're really witnessing with all this tumult. This is an ideological civil war we're witnessing between unelected power players, both inside and outside the federal government.

 

Challenging this narrative, one that began WELL before the election of 2016 and well before Trump was ever a serious candidate (okay, he's still not but you know what I mean), is to challenge the bread and butter (Regime Change/Perma-war) of the deep state. And you don't challenge those types without suffering casualties.

 

I say this not to sound above it all, because despite my volume and tone, I'm still trying to filter the signal from the noise, but: don't be a prisoner of the moment. Look back at the history of this Neo-McCarthyism and the men who pushed it and it starts to become really apparent that there's fucckery afoot.

 

The again, the notions of Russian hacking into DNC computers and possible collusion by those in the Trump campaign are not necessarily mutually inclusive. One may have nothing to do with the other.

 

They are unrelated because the Russians did not hack the DNC servers. There is no evidence to support they did, but there is evidence that shows it's highly likely they did not.

 

That said:

 

There's no special council without the DNI/ICA. There's no media narrative about "hacking" without the DNI/ICA - not one that lasts more than a few weeks. The entire story was given credence by the DNI/ICA and allowed to metastasize in the public's mind before any contrary information was even allowed to be entertained by "serious" journalists or media outlets.

 

That's how information warfare works.

 

This wasn't done by the whole USIC, or the whole of any agencies. The DNI makes that clear: it was a handpicked team by Clapper and Brennan - both men whose entire careers and retirement plans have been and continue to be built upon the expansion of the perma-war state and the furthering of America's addiction to regime change. Trump's entire foreign policy represents a threat to that agenda - which is why you saw a flood of neocons to the left during the election, it's why you've seen the same folks who pushed regime change in Iraq for WMD suddenly talking passionately about the need to defend our democracy by retaliating against Russia for what Morgan Freeman calls an act of war.

 

This isn't about right or left to them. It's not about politics. It's about the continuation of an illegal and illicit system that does nothing but cause death and destruction around the world - not to America's benefit - but to the benefit of a very small and powerful group of corporations and financial interests who use elements of the USIC as their own private intel outfit.

 

I've said from the beginning, and it remains true, that if there was any evidence of actual collusion between Trump and the state of Russia, or if any votes were actually changed by Russian malfeasance (facebook posts and propaganda excluded), its a concern. How big of a concern, and what sort of response I'd find acceptable, depends on the extent of the violation and the evidence, but bring me evidence and I'm willing to listen and reconsider my positions. And yet... the only evidence we've been given proves the DNI/ICA was rubbish. That's not me cherry picking. That's the reality.

 

But those concerns - the very ones that got so many on the left and center concerned back in January - are not even what we are talking about now. There's been a deliberate and obvious shifting of the goal posts - it's been subtle and done slowly over the past month and a half, but it's just more evidence that we are being manipulated. No one knows what Mueller is actually looking into, but it sure looks like it has nothing to do with the above concerns.

 

That a special prosecutor is broadening his scope isn't new or particularly alarming. But considering the foundational piece of evidence for this whol fiasco was knowingly fabricated by the USIC explicitly to prevent a legally elected administration from implementing it's chosen foreign policy agendas per their constitutional right... maybe people should take a step back, put down their political agendas, and re-look at the story with fresh eyes.

Edited September 20, 2017 by Deranged Rhino

[Tiberius]

Rhino can answer this better than I can, but my guess is to question the integrity of US Intelligence Agencies as a U.S. Congressman would be career suicide as you'd be immediately outcast as a conspiracy theorist loon.

 

It's funny how everyone on the board made fun of Dougies conspiracy theories until they were crafted to explain away Trump's Russia connections. Now it's all hands on board to help him out. The right wing media has no problem at all questioning anyone at all. You really think a media empire as big as the right wing propaganda machine would just miss all this? Come on!

[Tiberius]

Washington (CNN)President Donald Trump's pick for US ambassador to Russia, former Utah Gov. Jon Huntsman, told lawmakers Tuesday that there is "no question Russia interfered in the US election last summer."

Appearing in his nomination hearing before the Senate Foreign Relations committee, Huntsman said the interference in the election has directly led to the low level of trust between Moscow and Washington.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/19/politics/jon-huntsman-russia-election-interference/index.html

[Deranged Rhino]

It's funny how everyone on the board made fun of Dougies conspiracy theories until they were crafted to explain away Trump's Russia connections. Now it's all hands on board to help him out. The right wing media has no problem at all questioning anyone at all. You really think a media empire as big as the right wing propaganda machine would just miss all this? Come on!

 

Who the hell is Dougie? And if Dougie is me, then you (shockingly) got this all wrong. Again.

 

This "theory" wasn't created to explain away Trump's connections to Russia. I don't give a flip about Trump or his connections to Russia. I do care, deeply, about the USIC purposefully undermining our electoral process in order to deny the will of the American people. That's called a coup. And when it's done to preserve the worst elements of our foreign policy (regime change, perma-war, and the expansion of the surveillance state at the expense of our constitutional protections and civil liberties) it should outrage everyone regardless of their political team of choice.

 

If you think I'm up in arms over this story because of Trump, you don't understand a thing about me or what I'm arguing for.

[Gary M]

That the intelligence agencies are lying?

 

 

 

 

Yep

 

https://www.mediaite.com/columnists/remember-when-james-clapper-categorically-denied-any-wiretap-against-trump-campaign/

 

So, where are the tapes of this illegal wiretap? Can we please hear all the evidence of collusion and treason?

[Koko78]

 

 

 

 

Yep

 

https://www.mediaite.com/columnists/remember-when-james-clapper-categorically-denied-any-wiretap-against-trump-campaign/

 

So, where are the tapes of this illegal wiretap? Can we please hear all the evidence of collusion and treason?

 

What part of unnamed sources citing unnamed methods do you not understand?!? That secret information is 100% accurate. Period. Exclamation point.

 

How dare you not trust what they supposedly say as gospel! J'accuse!

[TH3]

Would that be a first for the Intelligence community? Or have you forgotten recent history?

 

Always follow the evidence. The evidence on this issue - the DNI/ICA from January - is clear: it's rubbish. Rubbish that represents the entire foundation of most average folks' opinion for the whole Russian Hacking narrative. Worse, it's rubbish that the media lied to you about for months because it "explained" why they got the election sooooo wrong.

 

 

 

It's not being ignored. Sanders and many others within the inner circle have been talking about the VIPs report for a few weeks now. And the story is mainstream now: The Nation reported on it, and was picked up by several other mainstream outlets - which then sparked a round of propaganda from the usual suspects (WashPo, NYT) who introduced strawmen into the argument without touching the core of the report's findings and bogged the reader down in technobabble that, once again, has been shown to be much ado about nothing.

 

The larger problem is that there is no "mainstream" anymore. Just peoples' chosen media outlets which is tailored to their particular tastes. Few people wish to have their views challenged, so they seek confirmation in their news sources, not debate. Thus, the lie was repeated loudly, for months, by people who know it's not the truth that sways people - but what they hear first. Everyone has retreated into their own echo chambers on this issue without bothering to look at the information for themselves.

 

Which is what they counted on.

 

And, as Doc mentioned above, to think that Trump's team is unified is to miss the point of what's really happening, what we're really witnessing with all this tumult. This is an ideological civil war we're witnessing between unelected power players, both inside and outside the federal government.

 

Challenging this narrative, one that began WELL before the election of 2016 and well before Trump was ever a serious candidate (okay, he's still not but you know what I mean), is to challenge the bread and butter (Regime Change/Perma-war) of the deep state. And you don't challenge those types without suffering casualties.

 

I say this not to sound above it all, because despite my volume and tone, I'm still trying to filter the signal from the noise, but: don't be a prisoner of the moment. Look back at the history of this Neo-McCarthyism and the men who pushed it and it starts to become really apparent that there's fucckery afoot.

 

 

They are unrelated because the Russians did not hack the DNC servers. There is no evidence to support they did, but there is evidence that shows it's highly likely they did not.

 

That said:

 

There's no special council without the DNI/ICA. There's no media narrative about "hacking" without the DNI/ICA - not one that lasts more than a few weeks. The entire story was given credence by the DNI/ICA and allowed to metastasize in the public's mind before any contrary information was even allowed to be entertained by "serious" journalists or media outlets.

 

That's how information warfare works.

 

This wasn't done by the whole USIC, or the whole of any agencies. The DNI makes that clear: it was a handpicked team by Clapper and Brennan - both men whose entire careers and retirement plans have been and continue to be built upon the expansion of the perma-war state and the furthering of America's addiction to regime change. Trump's entire foreign policy represents a threat to that agenda - which is why you saw a flood of neocons to the left during the election, it's why you've seen the same folks who pushed regime change in Iraq for WMD suddenly talking passionately about the need to defend our democracy by retaliating against Russia for what Morgan Freeman calls an act of war.

 

This isn't about right or left to them. It's not about politics. It's about the continuation of an illegal and illicit system that does nothing but cause death and destruction around the world - not to America's benefit - but to the benefit of a very small and powerful group of corporations and financial interests who use elements of the USIC as their own private intel outfit.

 

I've said from the beginning, and it remains true, that if there was any evidence of actual collusion between Trump and the state of Russia, or if any votes were actually changed by Russian malfeasance (facebook posts and propaganda excluded), its a concern. How big of a concern, and what sort of response I'd find acceptable, depends on the extent of the violation and the evidence, but bring me evidence and I'm willing to listen and reconsider my positions. And yet... the only evidence we've been given proves the DNI/ICA was rubbish. That's not me cherry picking. That's the reality.

 

But those concerns - the very ones that got so many on the left and center concerned back in January - are not even what we are talking about now. There's been a deliberate and obvious shifting of the goal posts - it's been subtle and done slowly over the past month and a half, but it's just more evidence that we are being manipulated. No one knows what Mueller is actually looking into, but it sure looks like it has nothing to do with the above concerns.

 

That a special prosecutor is broadening his scope isn't new or particularly alarming. But considering the foundational piece of evidence for this whol fiasco was knowingly fabricated by the USIC explicitly to prevent a legally elected administration from implementing it's chosen foreign policy agendas per their constitutional right... maybe people should take a step back, put down their political agendas, and re-look at the story with fresh eyes.

Deep State...Evidence that things didn't happen.....

 

Sheesh...for cripesakes Manfafort was a freaking bagman for Putin in Ukraine and Trumps campaign manager - how is that? How is the fact that Trump got on national TV and asked the Russians to hack HRC's email....

 

Your a idiot

[Tiberius]

Suspected Russia propagandists on Facebook tried to organize more than a dozen pro-Trump rallies in Florida during last year’s election, The Daily Beast has learned.

The demonstrations—at least one of which was promoted online by local pro-Trump activists— brought dozens of supporters together in real life. They appear to be the first case of Russian provocateurs successfully mobilizing Americans over Facebook in direct support of Donald Trump.

The Aug. 20, 2016, events were collectively called “Florida Goes Trump!” and they were billed as a “patriotic state-wide flash mob,” unfolding simultaneously in 17 different cities and towns in the battleground state. It’s difficult to determine how many of those locations actually witnessed any turnout, in part because Facebook’s recent deletion of hundreds of Russian accounts hid much of the evidence. But videos and photos from two of the locations—Fort Lauderdale and Coral Springs—were reposted to a Facebook page run by the local Trump campaign chair, where they remain to this day.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/russians-appear-to-use-facebook-to-push-pro-trump-flash-mobs-in-florida