Trump and Russia

[Tiberius]

Russians are planning a massive military exercise in western Russia with 100,000 troops.

 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/31/world/europe/russia-military-exercise-zapad-west.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

Even more worrying, top American military officers say, is that the maneuvers could be used as a pretext to increase Russia’s military presence in Belarus, a central European nation that borders three critical NATO allies: Poland, Lithuania and Latvia.

 

“The great concern is they’re not going to leave, and that’s not paranoia,” Gen. Tony Thomas, the head of the United States Special Operations Command, told a national security conference in Aspen, Colo., in July.

 

Peter B. Zwack, a retired one-star Army general who was the American defense attaché in Moscow from 2012 to 2014, said: “First and foremost, the messaging is, ‘We’re watching you; we’re strong; we’ve learned a lot; don’t mess with Russia.’”

[PastaJoe]

After all he did for Trump, Putin's mad that the House of Cons screwed the pooch with their ham-handed attempts to cover up the collusion, and can't deliver the goods by removing sanctions.

[Deranged Rhino]

The only piece of evidence presented to the American people so far, back in January, has been proven to have been tampered with and altered to force a conclusion...

 

... But gator and pasta would rather ignore this because it's uncomfortable to their politics. That's sad, gentlemen. Real sad. This should be about protecting our country from enemies - foreign and domestic - not choosing the political narrative that suits you best.

 

RIP TO THE JANUARY 6th DNI REPORT:

 

Over the past few weeks, three pieces of evidence - real evidence, not evidence that relies on unnamed sources citing unnamed methods - have come to light that blow a huge hole in major portions of the "Russian collusion" story's main piece of evidence: The DNI report issued in January of this year.

 

Shockingly, much of this evidence has been ignored by the MSM and the loudest supporters of this narrative on this board - despite most of those same folks spending the past six months telling me I was wrong for raising these very same concerns...

 

Let's lay it out step by step.

 

1) Let's start with basic reading comprehension: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/01/06/us/politics/document-russia-hacking-report-intelligence-agencies.html

 

This is the DNI report issued in January, the same report being touted by many as being the best evidence because it comes from the USIC itself. The report was sold to the public as being comprehensive (if unclassified) analysis from all 17 US Intel agencies who unanimously agreed that Russia had "hacked" the election.

 

Many posters on here have held this report up as all the evidence they needed to believe the narrative being spun. When I pointed out to them, simply by reading the report itself, that it was not from all 17 agencies and in fact wasn't even presenting a consensus within the three agencies it actually came from (NSA, CIA, DHS), I was told - repeatedly - how I was wrong.

 

Then a funny thing happened at the end of June. The NYT's issued a correction, buried of course, that admitted a basic error in their now seven month long disinformation campaign:

 

 

 

 

 

This correction is important, not just because it shows that the NYT and other outlets knowingly lied for months about the unanimous consensus of the USIC, but because it completely omits the second most troubling part of the January DNI report - namely how the team was assembled... which brings us to:

 

2) On July 12th, this report came out detailing how the DNI report came to be: http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/did-17-intelligence-agencies-really-come-to-consensus-on-russia/

 

Again, much of this could be discerned by reading the DNI report itself, presuming you have a basic understanding about how intel is gathered, analyzed and processed within the USIC.

 

 

 

This exposes yet another lie which has been repeated to the point of now being taken for granted and absolute truth by the MSM and various talking heads within the USIC. The DNI Report was not a consensus of opinion within all 17 agencies, it wasn't even the consensus of opinion within the three agencies that actually compiled the report (DHS, NSA, CIA). Rather, it was the conclusion the small task force created by Directors Brennan and Clapper were ORDERED TO REACH.

 

After the WMD debacle in the early 2000's, the USIC rewrote their rule books to avoid repeating such a mistake of confirmation bias clouding active intel analysis. Part of this culture shift was the regulations to not create insular task forces within the USIC but rather to more freely exchange information and investigations between relevant branches. Clapper and Brennan's actions, by creating a separate investigative group and insulating them, is in direct violation of those new guidelines.

 

Think about that for a moment. Clapper and Brennan - two men who dealt with the WMD investigations at different times, both men who have perjured themselves before Congress and Senate on issues of domestic collection and various USIC programs' over reach, broke the protocols they were a part of creating to FORCE the conclusion they wanted to reach. It's, quite literally, a repeat of the WMD agenda. Only this time the stakes aren't a poorly thought out invasion of a weak country - but the undercutting of our national confidence in our electoral process while poking the nose of the world's largest thermonuclear power.

 

Motive is always important to examine in these cases, and it should be noted that both Brennan and Clapper have been at the forefront of the USIC's regime change war in Syria. It's an agenda they've been engineering and working towards for years now. And Trump's incoming administration - whether they meant it or not - campaigned and won in no small part because of their promises to end the nation's regime change addiction.

 

This means that both Clapper and Brennan had a clear motive to undercut 45's incoming administration and to paint a target on Russia by engineering a fear campaign through their chosen MSM outlets (the NYT, Washington Post, CNN primarily).

 

So, at the end of the day, the January DNI report which has been touted as proof by many here and in the media, has been completely blown out of the water just by these admissions:

- It's not a consensus.

- It was not compiled following proper USIC protocol.

- It was, by their own admission, an investigation designed to prove Russian meddling and hacking rather than an honest investigation into the event itself.

 

3) Now that we've established the DNI report itself was flawed in design and pushed onto the public by Brennan, Clapper, and the MSM in a dishonest and propagandizing way - what about the actual evidence offered in the report itself?

 

A new analysis was dropped this week by a collection of Intel vets working on behalf of the public - who signed their names and cited their sources and methods, more than the USIC has done to date. Their examination of the limited forensic evidence offered in the DNI report shows that the evidence itself was deliberately tampered with and that the story of hacking itself is impossible:

 

 

 

Re-read that again, and consider this evidence in conjunction with the rest of the "narrative" spun about this January 6th DNI report. What this report is saying is that the evidence offered to the American public by the DNI report was tampered with and altered to hide the presence of a leaker (not hacker) and an attempt was made to pin it all on Russia.

 

This is proven even further by the Vault 7 drops by Wikileaks this year which released the USIC's cyber weapon cache to the public. Chief among these tools are Umbrage (http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/wikileaks-files-cia-umbrage-hacker-secret-spies-explained-countries-donald-trump-russia-a7618661.html) and Marbles (http://thehackernews.com/2017/03/cia-marble-framework.html) both of which are programs which make it possible to mask/fake ISP addresses.

 

The forensic analysis of the DNI documents show proof of these programs in action. Meaning, the USIC deliberatley altered the key evidence it presented to the American public as proof of Russian interference and hacking in the election.

 

In other words, they lied to the American public. What makes anyone of us so certain they're not still lying?

 

All of this leads me back to a question I've asked many in this thread and have yet to hear an answer to. If you honestly believe Russian Intelligence agencies launched a massively successful hacking/propaganda campaign that duped the public into voting for Trump - is it not possible that the USIC has the same capabilities and reach to wage an information war on their own people?

 

Because the final analysis of the DNI report shows a concerted effort on behalf of Brennan, Clapper, elements within the US MSM and Congress to mislead the American public and scare them into buying into the next "Big Bad" that the US MiC will need generous budgets to combat.

 

This isn't partisan. This is absolute evidence that the DNI report touted by many on here was intentionally crafted to mislead the American public into a false conclusion.

 

And those of you on the left who are so blinded by your desire to remove Trump and sink him with this story, I ask you to consider this article in its entirety first:

 

With New D.C. Policy Group, Dems Continue to Rehabilitate and Unify With Bush-Era Neocon

 

It shows, once again, where the motivations for this narrative truly lie. It's not really about the DNC protecting it's party or Hillary making excuses. It's not really about protecting our "sacred institutions"... It seems to be about the continuation of regime change policies pushed by the neocon establishment which, with the help of this narrative, have now flipped to the left side of the aisle. A move that should outrage anyone who protested against W's wars in the desert.

 

Conclusion: We are in an information war. Up is not up and down is not down. Discernment is key. It's taken seven months for the MSM to admit the DNI report was flawed (at best). In that time, the narrative has been allowed to metastasize primarily by people flaunting the DNI report as proof.

 

What actual discernment and evidence shows is the Russian narrative has been concocted at worst, overblown at best, from the very beginning.

 

Stay frosty out there, people.

[Tiberius]

Only piece of evidence? You are so willfully blind it's as if you have blinders on. What about, just for one example, the leaked document that showed Russia was actively trying to hack the voting systems. Isn't there a girl in jail right now for leaking that to the Intercept?

[DC Tom]

Only piece of evidence? You are so willfully blind it's as if you have blinders on. What about, just for one example, the leaked document that showed Russia was actively trying to hack the voting systems. Isn't there a girl in jail right now for leaking that to the Intercept?

 

Does that leaked document show collusion? Because that's the operative word here. "Collusion."

 

(It's a rhetorical question. It doesn't show that. Though you will claim it does, because you're a !@#$ing fool.)

[Tiberius]

Does that leaked document show collusion? Because that's the operative word here. "Collusion."

 

(It's a rhetorical question. It doesn't show that. Though you will claim it does, because you're a !@#$ing fool.)

So we have moved on from trying to say the Russians had nothing at all to do with trying to fix the election? Greggy?

And no that document was not about collusion, but the meeting with Don jr was collusion, even though the compulsive liar Trump has promised nothing came of it, ya right.

[DC Tom]

The only piece of evidence presented to the American people so far, back in January, has been proven to have been tampered with and altered to force a conclusion...

 

... But gator and pasta would rather ignore this because it's uncomfortable to their politics. That's sad, gentlemen. Real sad. This should be about protecting our country from enemies - foreign and domestic - not choosing the political narrative that suits you best.

 

 

 

Because that's the operative word here. "Collusion."

 

What part do you not understand?

[row_33]

So we have moved on from trying to say the Russians had nothing at all to do with trying to fix the election? Greggy?

And no that document was not about collusion, but the meeting with Don jr was collusion, even though the compulsive liar Trump has promised nothing came of it, ya right.

 

There's nothing here, keep going further up your behind, maybe you'll find something there.

[Chef Jim]

 

Does that leaked document show collusion? Because that's the operative word here. "Collusion."

 

(It's a rhetorical question. It doesn't show that. Though you will claim it does, because you're a !@#$ing fool.)

 

I wonder if Hillary had won and this document was released would they still be using the word collusion?

 

Also a rhetorical question.

Edited August 1, 2017 by Chef Jim

[DC Tom]

Kushner: "Collude with Russia? We couldn't even collude with our local offices."

 

Gotta admit...he's got a point.

 

And CNN is a bunch of !@#$s for reporting this off the record conversation.

[Doc Brown]

Kushner: "Collude with Russia? We couldn't even collude with our local offices."

 

Gotta admit...he's got a point.

 

And CNN is a bunch of !@#$s for reporting this off the record conversation.

That's been my thinking all along. These guys seem way too incompetent to have this master collusion plan with Russia to win the election. The DNC on the other hand.....

[Nanker]

That's been my thinking all along. These guys seem way too incompetent to have this master collusion plan with Russia to win the election. The DNC on the other hand...

is actively engaging in and promoting a coup d'etat. "Take to the streets," "Resist in every way," "not my President," etc., etc., etc.

[PastaJoe]

Curious that when dealing with healthcare Trump said he was waiting with pen in hand to sign it as soon as it was passed by the slimmest of margins. The new Russian sanctions bill was passed last Thursday by the Senate 98-2 and earlier by the House 419-3, and Putin has ordered 755 American diplomats to leave Russia. Yet Trump has said nothing about Putin's action, and still hasn't signed the veto proof bill.

Trump must be petrified about what Putin has on him.

[DC Tom]

Curious that when dealing with healthcare Trump said he was waiting with pen in hand to sign it as soon as it was passed by the slimmest of margins. The new Russian sanctions bill was passed last Thursday by the Senate 98-2 and earlier by the House 419-3, and Putin has ordered 755 American diplomats to leave Russia. Yet Trump has said nothing about Putin's action, and still hasn't signed the veto proof bill.

Trump must be petrified about what Putin has on him.

 

And Trump should completely ignore the bill, since anything he does with it is fodder for morons such as yourself.

[Deranged Rhino]

So we have moved on from trying to say the Russians had nothing at all to do with trying to fix the election? Greggy?

And no that document was not about collusion, but the meeting with Don jr was collusion, even though the compulsive liar Trump has promised nothing came of it, ya right.

 

This was already answered by Tom above, but let me add this:

 

This has never been about politics for me, and still isn't. I'm not defending Trump by pointing this out, I'm defending you.

 

The only hard evidence that's been offered to the American people about Russia "hacking/meddling" in our election by the USIC, the only evidence that wasn't couched in "unnamed sources citing unnamed methods", was the DNI report on January 6 of this year. That same report has been the foundation used to make this "Russian hacked the election" case in the media and on the Hill. On this very board it's been the piece of evidence offered by you, pasta, Ben et al to cap an argument that usually went something like: "I'm going to believe the USIC when they say Russia hacked because they know more than any of us."

 

Literally for SEVEN months this DNI report has been used to foment insurrection against this administration while simultaneously making everyone in the country certain that Russia is not only an adversary, but a hostile enemy who meddled in our free elections. You've even had various prestigious people over the past seven months describing that as an act of war by Russia... one that demands a response.

 

And now, through Open Source Intelligence, it has been proven - not speculated or "rumored" - but forensically proven that the evidence offered in the DNI itself was fabricated and altered intentionally to mislead the American public into believing Russia was the culprit.

 

That should be the !@#$ing leading headline in every outlet if we didn't have a media playing sides. The heads of three major Intelligence agencies actively colluded to undermine the national confidence in the integrity of the election as well as the incoming administration (two weeks before he was even sworn in). That's the story, or should be if you were in any way honest about this subject. This is the only story that has actual evidence to support its conclusion!

 

This isn't about Trump. It's not about the DNC. It's not about the GOP. It's about the USIC trying to set their own agenda and blatantly lying to the American people in order to do so. This is about the USIC boxing the political left into a corner where now they have to support military intervention if it can be sold as standing up to Putin. This is about the USIC creating a new big-bad to replace the jihadists who just aren't keeping the MiC's coffers as nicely stocked these days.

 

You're being played. By the very same people, not agencies - the very same people, who mislead us all into 16 years of war in the ME...

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Bravo greggy!

[26CornerBlitz]

Not much choice with veto proof votes for it in both the House and Senate.

 

@business

BREAKING: Trump has signed Russia sanctions legislation, White House official says https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-02/president-trump-signs-russia-sanctions-bill-white-house-official-says

[DC Tom]

 

Not much choice with veto proof votes for it in both the House and Senate.

 

@business

BREAKING: Trump has signed Russia sanctions legislation, White House official says https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-02/president-trump-signs-russia-sanctions-bill-white-house-official-says

 

 

He could have (and probably should have) chosen not to, and the bill would have become law Friday or Monday without any input from him at all.

 

Unless the Senate adjourned...which they're not going to do.

[Magox]

There goes that CNN segment this morning, with a red background of Trump and Putin with their ominous faces, regarding why Trump hadn't signed the sanctions and how he may be in the pocket of the Russians.

[row_33]

Is this why we woke up one morning a few years ago and the GOP and Dem states changed colours.

 

The use of blue for conservative causes for about 5,000,000 years suddenly was turned red, no explanation given.

 

At least National Review kept the blue border.