oddoublee Posted February 14, 2017 Posted February 14, 2017 "He doesn't have the anticipatory instincts or accuracy to compensate for mediocre throwing velocity." That pretty much killed any of his other analysis. Very clear that he hasn't watched nearly as much "film" on Tyrod as some of you defending his take as "coming from a film junky" would suggest. Lazy analysis. his throwing velocity is mediocre. Throwing a nice touch deep ball does preclude one to have excellent arm strength. Tyrod cannot throw it on a rope so to speak.
YoloinOhio Posted February 14, 2017 Author Posted February 14, 2017 (edited) What did you guys see while at that games that was more convincing than just watching from home? I want to move on from TT as well, just curious as to why seeing him on the field had left you both feeling the same way. Missed plays? Demeanor? Both?the play is developing on the field, as a result of the play being run guys are open, TT doesn't throw it or takes too long to decide to throw it, and the play breaks down. WRs throw up their hands. Rinse and repeat. I think he panics too early and is scared to pull the trigger. In the Bengals game he did throw one to Goodwin that should have been a TD (I blame MG for that one) and it got picked off, which seemed to have made him too tentative the rest of the game. He often plays like his goal is just to not turn the ball over. Edited February 14, 2017 by YoloinOhio
oddoublee Posted February 14, 2017 Posted February 14, 2017 I like watching tyrod play - he does some exciting things. but there are concerns with his game for sure. one thing that really gets me when watching him is his pocket presence. he simply never steps up into the correct spot to avoid trouble. i get that some people will argue against this simply because he makes great runs...but that does not equal good footwork in the pocket. and tyrod is sorely lacking in that department. it is a big reason why he leaves plays on the field IMO
Dorkington Posted February 14, 2017 Posted February 14, 2017 Benoit is one of the best in the business but I think this highlights how difficult of a decision this really is - credible football minds disagree about what Tyrod brings to the table and whether the Bills should keep him. True. I've seen articles on both sides now and it's hard to know which way is truly best. It's not surprising, since he's a mid level QB. He has pros and cons. He's obviously not great, but at the same time we could do a lot worse. Keeping Tyrod, imo, fully depends on our other options.
CommonCents Posted February 14, 2017 Posted February 14, 2017 the play is developing on the field, as a result of the play being run guys are open, TT doesn't throw it or takes too long to decide to throw it, and the play breaks down. WRs throw up their hands. Rinse and repeat. I think he panics too early and is scared to pull the trigger. In the Bengals game he did throw one to Goodwin that should have been a TD (I blame MG for that one) and it got picked off, which seemed to have made him too tentative the rest of the game. He often plays like his goal is just to not turn the ball over. He is the biggest offseason story outside of the draft. Will this be the QB that teams refuse to overpay? It's been a few years now since the debates of giving "mid" level guys like Tannehill and Dalton big contracts. Then last year was the Brock bidding war. All the evidence is there which pin points Taylor's faults. If Buffalo lets TT go any potential suitors will be negotiating with Taylor knowing that they are putting their reputation in his hands. Buffalo rejected a QB and then you went and signed him to serious guaranteed money!? I'm certain he won't be going to Denver. It would have to be a GM that's desperate.
Thurman#1 Posted February 14, 2017 Posted February 14, 2017 In two years starting did he get better from his time as a backup? Lets see: two years starting and two pro bowl invites. His first season starting was exactly comparable to RG3's Rookie of the Year season where he was the talk of the town. Yeh he slightly regressed this year. That tends to happen when youre not at Brady's talent level and you have 5 WR on injured reserve. So to answer your question, id say yes, his two years in Buffalo were better than his time in Baltimore Being proud of being a Pro Bowl alernate these days is like being proud of getting a prom date after eight girls say no, including your sister and your cousin. It just doesn't mean much. Again, you're right that the receivers were great ... but he had open guys on pretty much every single play. I watched five Sammy-less games on All-22 and he did. Guys were open. And for the eight-millionth time, you guys who talk about receiver problems never seem to mention the other side of the coin, which is that NFL QBs would kill to have a run game as good as the Bills have. It's a huge help to the pass game, but we still just weren't good throwing the ball. I'd agree this much, he improved from Baltimore. But his regression this season as defenses caught on to how to defend him wasn't "slight." It was big.
John from Riverside Posted February 14, 2017 Posted February 14, 2017 Being proud of being a Pro Bowl alernate these days is like being proud of getting a prom date after eight girls say no, including your sister and your cousin. It just doesn't mean much. Again, you're right that the receivers were great ... but he had open guys on pretty much every single play. I watched five Sammy-less games on All-22 and he did. Guys were open. And for the eight-millionth time, you guys who talk about receiver problems never seem to mention the other side of the coin, which is that NFL QBs would kill to have a run game as good as the Bills have. It's a huge help to the pass game, but we still just weren't good throwing the ball. I'd agree this much, he improved from Baltimore. But his regression this season as defenses caught on to how to defend him wasn't "slight." It was big. yet it was not big enough to keep the offense fro being 7th in the league in scoring
BuffaloRebound Posted February 14, 2017 Posted February 14, 2017 He is the biggest offseason story outside of the draft. Will this be the QB that teams refuse to overpay? It's been a few years now since the debates of giving "mid" level guys like Tannehill and Dalton big contracts. Then last year was the Brock bidding war. All the evidence is there which pin points Taylor's faults. If Buffalo lets TT go any potential suitors will be negotiating with Taylor knowing that they are putting their reputation in his hands. Buffalo rejected a QB and then you went and signed him to serious guaranteed money!? I'm certain he won't be going to Denver. It would have to be a GM that's desperate. Excellent post. I think the worm is beginning to turn on giving the Osweilers and Bradfords and Tannehills big money, and that is going to hurt Taylor if Bills cut him loose. A team like Cleveland who'd be happy with 8-8 makes some sense, but they'd be stupid to commit more than a couple years at starter money to Taylor.
Thurman#1 Posted February 14, 2017 Posted February 14, 2017 He is the biggest offseason story outside of the draft. Will this be the QB that teams refuse to overpay? It's been a few years now since the debates of giving "mid" level guys like Tannehill and Dalton big contracts. Then last year was the Brock bidding war. All the evidence is there which pin points Taylor's faults. If Buffalo lets TT go any potential suitors will be negotiating with Taylor knowing that they are putting their reputation in his hands. Buffalo rejected a QB and then you went and signed him to serious guaranteed money!? I'm certain he won't be going to Denver. It would have to be a GM that's desperate. Agreed, with one exception. Dalton is not mid-level. He was terrific in 2015 and this year, their o-line was awful and they couldn't run the ball well either, in a four way tie for 20th at YPR and he still played pretty well.
YoloinOhio Posted February 14, 2017 Author Posted February 14, 2017 The only connection with Dennison and TT is that the Broncos wanted to bring in TT two years ago. Don't know how much of a fit it is. I watched a few Broncos games last year and the offense seemed fairly simple but the Broncos had stellar pass catchers which must have helped a little. Courtesy of a great defense, they went 9-7 with a carousel of running backs and a 6th round QB in his second season with the team. I think TT is at least as good as Siemian was (in different ways of course), but then the question is will the defense improve enough to get us the extra wins, or does TT improve? Denver wanted to bring him in 2 years ago as a backup. He wasn't beating out Peyton Manning. he knew the Kubiak offense from Denver so it made sense. Wanting him as a backup and wanting him as a starter are very different and we don't know if Dennison, who would be very aware of his limitations, wants to go that route. It may hurt TT that he's here, not help him.
Thurman#1 Posted February 14, 2017 Posted February 14, 2017 (edited) yet it was not big enough to keep the offense fro being 7th in the league in scoring John, I've said this a million times before, but to repeat ... scoring simply is NOT a QB statistic. It just isn't. It's a whole offense stat, with a major defense and STs component in terms of field position (and the Bills offense had the 11th best average drive start field position in the league while leaving the defense screwed with the 23rd worst average drive start field position). Tyrod and our poor passing game should get down on their knees and thank our excellent run game for doing so much scoring to make the offense look good. 17 passing TDs, 29 running TDs and three scored by the defense. Just barely more than a third of our scoring was by the passing attack ... in a league where not one single solitary lonely desolate unaccompanied isolated other team in the league scored less passing TDs than running TDs. Thank goodness the run game was so good. Because the passing game just wasn't. Tyrod's regression was indeed big. 20th in passer rating and 26th in YPA. Edited February 14, 2017 by Thurman#1
John from Riverside Posted February 14, 2017 Posted February 14, 2017 Denver wanted to bring him in 2 years ago as a backup. He wasn't beating out Peyton Manning. he knew the Kubiak offense from Denver so it made sense. Wanting him as a backup and wanting him as a starter are very different and we don't know if Dennison, who would be very aware of his limitations, wants to go that route. It may hurt TT that he's here, not help him. manning was also showing decline and age in his game and there is also a chance he is behind center instead of simeon John, I've said this a million times before, but to repeat ... anyone who thinks scoring is a quarterback stat just doesn't get it. Seriously. just doesn't get it at all. It's a whole offense stat, with a major defense and STs component in terms of field position (and the Bills offense had the 11th best average drive start field position in the league while leaving the defense screwed with the 23rd worst average drive start field position. Tyrod and our poor passing game should get down on their knees and thank our excellent run game for doing so much scoring to make the offense look good. yes you have also made the comment about the pro bowl a million times as well you cannot cherry pick what to like about the qbs performance...tt was a big part of what made that scoring offense work REGARDLESS of passing stats
offsides#76FredSmerlas Posted February 14, 2017 Posted February 14, 2017 I honestly don't care what the Bills do as long as they get it right. Fans can all have their opinions but it really is just that, a bunch of opinions that really doesn't mean a whole lot. The Bills so called experts need to look at all the game film and all the practice film and see if he has shown any progression in his 2 years here. I only watch the game on a tv broadcast, and I'm not calling the plays. So, I the fan cannot be accurate in my evaluation. The Bills brass I'm sure also has a handle on how the players feels towards Taylor. I mean if the tight ends and receivers are ticked off every Monday when they come in to watch film because their not getting the ball when they are open then the Bills are aware of that. Whaley and the staff have to make a sound calculation on Taylor's upside and the amount of money they feel that he is worth, I think it is a no brainer that he is a main reason why we thrive in the run game. Teams have to focus on him as well as our talented backs. I think as a fan I like the idea that he doesn't turn the ball over, that he is the top rushing QB in the NFL, that he produced 24 points a game but I'm not going to sit here and say I know whether he is our best option or not. I can only hope Whaley and the coaching staff get it right.
CommonCents Posted February 14, 2017 Posted February 14, 2017 manning was also showing decline and age in his game and there is also a chance he is behind center instead of simeon yes you have also made the comment about the pro bowl a million times as well you cannot cherry pick what to like about the qbs performance...tt was a big part of what made that scoring offense work REGARDLESS of passing stats Explain what big role TT had in making the rushing attack better. The Bills ran one of the more complex running schemes while most teams focus on building their offense around a passing scheme. They were successful with what they tried to do as a unit. Taylor ran well but struggled with the passing game. Wouldn't a moderate upgrade in the passing game also aid the rushing attack? Should the elite rushing attack have helped an inferior passer become atleast adequate? Many a Sunday's we went without ever seeing a professional level QB, he looked like another running option most weeks. We have plenty of running options and they come much cheaper than TT.
offsides#76FredSmerlas Posted February 14, 2017 Posted February 14, 2017 (edited) John, I've said this a million times before, but to repeat ... scoring simply is NOT a QB statistic. It just isn't. It's a whole offense stat, with a major defense and STs component in terms of field position (and the Bills offense had the 11th best average drive start field position in the league while leaving the defense screwed with the 23rd worst average drive start field position). Tyrod and our poor passing game should get down on their knees and thank our excellent run game for doing so much scoring to make the offense look good. 17 passing TDs, 29 running TDs and three scored by the defense. Just barely more than a third of our scoring was by the passing attack ... in a league where not one single solitary lonely desolate unaccompanied isolated other team in the league scored less passing TDs than running TDs. Thank goodness the run game was so good. Because the passing game just wasn't. Tyrod's regression was indeed big. 20th in passer rating and 26th in YPA. The running backs and offensive line should also get down on their knees and thank Tyrod because he is the major reason our run game is so good. Teams have to key on him every play and this frees up our backs. He was also a major contributor to us having the best rushing yards because he was the number one QB rusher in the NFL. It works both ways. Edited February 15, 2017 by offsides#76FredSmerlas
BuffaloRebound Posted February 14, 2017 Posted February 14, 2017 I think we also have to ask why Lynn was in demand this offseason. I think people saw how he maxed out the offense with a QB who was limited in the passing game. We can certainly do worse than Taylor and have for the majority of the last 20 years, but committing $30m to him is in my opinion being happy with mediocrity.
John from Riverside Posted February 14, 2017 Posted February 14, 2017 Explain what big role TT had in making the rushing attack better. The Bills ran one of the more complex running schemes while most teams focus on building their offense around a passing scheme. They were successful with what they tried to do as a unit. Taylor ran well but struggled with the passing game. Wouldn't a moderate upgrade in the passing game also aid the rushing attack? Should the elite rushing attack have helped an inferior passer become atleast adequate? Many a Sunday's we went without ever seeing a professional level QB, he looked like another running option most weeks. We have plenty of running options and they come much cheaper than TT. its a scheme thing...because of tts running ability it aided the running backs by having to account for iy and helped our ol as well yes.....a better passer would also help and tt is a system qb.....the question is are we going dramatically away from that system? we will know the answer to that soon
papazoid Posted February 14, 2017 Posted February 14, 2017 7th highest scoring offense in 2016 2 pro bowl invites 7th in passer rating and 9th in total qbr in 2015 when he had 3 WR's careful what you wish for....things can get a whole lot worse.
John from Riverside Posted February 14, 2017 Posted February 14, 2017 7th highest scoring offense in 2016 2 pro bowl invites 7th in passer rating and 9th in total qbr in 2015 when he had 3 WR's careful what you wish for....things can get a whole lot worse. i was just going to post that i still feel wevshould draft a qb but people just dont understand our offense falls off the earth things will get ugly ESPECIALLY if our d gets back to where it should be
CommonCents Posted February 14, 2017 Posted February 14, 2017 its a scheme thing...because of tts running ability it aided the running backs by having to account for iy and helped our ol as well yes.....a better passer would also help and tt is a system qb.....the question is are we going dramatically away from that system? we will know the answer to that soon And because of Taylor's inability to play QB it leads to more guys in the box which hurts the running game. That's why reciting stats is irrelevant. The unit was successful as a whole but Taylor struggled throwing the football which is why a QB is paid so handsomely. Or are they paid so much because they lead the two minute huddle? Or is it because they read defenses and make on field adjustments. Oh wait a minute! Taylor does none of that well if at all. Taylor makes exciting plays with his feet and throws a nice deep ball. He is easy to cheer for, as an underdog. He is not a guy you commit serious dollars too because he doesn't play his position well enough. A slight upgrade in the passing game creates more space for the RB's and suddenly Taylor's impact is a wash. Is it inconceivable that Cardale or a rookie could benefit from playing behind one of the best rushing attacks?
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