JohnC Posted February 14, 2017 Posted February 14, 2017 What did you guys see while at that games that was more convincing than just watching from home? I want to move on from TT as well, just curious as to why seeing him on the field had left you both feeling the same way. Missed plays? Demeanor? Both? A while back Howard Simon was talking about a game in which he watched in one of the boxes. He said that from a higher vantage point where you can get a good overview it was abundantly clear that he was not seeing the open receivers down the field. As others have said the missed plays are not reflected by the stats but they are glaringly noticed when watching from above. The criticism that he doesn't have good vision and is not able to go through progressions has merit. What is most disturbing is that he didn't show much improvement in his second year from his first year.
BarleyNY Posted February 14, 2017 Posted February 14, 2017 What did you guys see while at that games that was more convincing than just watching from home? I want to move on from TT as well, just curious as to why seeing him on the field had left you both feeling the same way. Missed plays? Demeanor? Both? A whole lot of obvious missed plays and poor ball placement on short and intermediate throws. Let me explain about the missed plays. Every quarterback misses plays after things break down. That's not what I'm talking about. Taylor just flat out didn't get the ball out on a lot of plays. When and when he should've gone with the ball was obvious. They should've been "bang, bang, ball is ou"t. But far too often he'd just hold it. That had to be frustrating for the team.
Thurman#1 Posted February 14, 2017 Posted February 14, 2017 (edited) 7th highest scoring offense in 2016 2 pro bowl invites 7th in passer rating and 9th in total qbr in 2015 when he had 3 WR's careful what you wish for....things can get a whole lot worse. Apparently they already have, when you have to go back to 2015 for one of your three points, the second is the pro bowl alternate stuff and the third refers not to the passing games specifically but to the whole offense and even is affected a lot by the field position that the STs and defense give the offense. I like Tyrod as a person. I was really hoping for the major improvements this year that they were hoping for, but just the opposite happened. I agree that things can get worse. But I've seen this team continue to reload and reload and reload sub-mediocre QBs and mediocre teams again and again for the length of the whole playoff drought. And all those 7-9s and 8-8s didn't make me any happier than a 2-14 followed by a high draft pick would have. Edited February 14, 2017 by Thurman#1
hondo in seattle Posted February 14, 2017 Posted February 14, 2017 Benoit, who studies film of all the NFL games for the MMQB, chose one position as each team's biggest weakness and need to addressthis offseason. Bills = QB. He's studied his film for 2 years. WGR brought him on, and his statement will be familiar to those who especially who look at the all-22 or watch the games live. http://www.si.com/nfl/2017/02/09/2017-nfl-draft-free-agency-team-needs?xid=socialflow_twitter_si Wgr clip http://d3efjls8gnbg8i.cloudfront.net/1628356/118412830/02-13-sports-illustrated-s-andy-benoit-on-the-john-118412830.mp3?rhihttphost=media.wgr550.com Tyrod analysis starts at 11:17 Beyond what we've been discussing on accuracy and lack of pocket presence, he examines why stats can't capture the most debilitating part of his game, which is leaving plays on the field. This is the most frustrating thing for fans ...as well as I'd imagine coaches and players. Is this something that can improve in time, with different coaches and system? He indicates there are plays designed to be easy reads that he still does not make. I hope Whaley and mcdermott know whether or not he is capable of seeing the field and just needs development or if this is something he's not going to ever get if he hasn't already. Oddly, I think we should keep Taylor despite his flaws because I'm not confident that better options are available. At the same time, I'm actually afraid Taylor's overall productivity will regress. Taylor was not a great passer last year and will probably never be a great one. But the way Roman and Lynn integrated him into the run game was brilliant. TT played a large role in making the run game as productive as it was. I worry that the new regime won't use him as well in the run game and I doubt they'll succeed in making him a better passer. While we have seen late bloomers in the NFL (e.g. Jim Plunkett), it's probably not likely at this point in Taylor's career that he becomes more accurate or learns to better find open guys. Geez, I hope I'm wrong.
John from Riverside Posted February 14, 2017 Posted February 14, 2017 That's what's so moronic about all this. Fans want it to get worse. fans dont want it to get worse (well some do in a even more insane tank dream) just some are blind to the fact it easily could if we make wrong moves hedge your bets
Maury Ballstein Posted February 14, 2017 Posted February 14, 2017 (edited) 7th highest scoring offense in 2016 2 pro bowl invites 7th in passer rating and 9th in total qbr in 2015 when he had 3 WR's careful what you wish for....things can get a whole lot worse. fans dont want it to get worse (well some do in a even more insane tank dream) just some are blind to the fact it easily could if we make wrong moves hedge your bets It can get worse than this ? How is that possible ? Kudos to McCoy and MG for carrying this anchor for long periods of time. http://youtube.com/watch?feature=onebox&v=mXUvHzCGrkU Edited February 14, 2017 by Ryan L Billz
PromoTheRobot Posted February 14, 2017 Posted February 14, 2017 He is the biggest offseason story outside of the draft. Will this be the QB that teams refuse to overpay? It's been a few years now since the debates of giving "mid" level guys like Tannehill and Dalton big contracts. Then last year was the Brock bidding war. All the evidence is there which pin points Taylor's faults. If Buffalo lets TT go any potential suitors will be negotiating with Taylor knowing that they are putting their reputation in his hands. Buffalo rejected a QB and then you went and signed him to serious guaranteed money!? I'm certain he won't be going to Denver. It would have to be a GM that's desperate. Buffalo rejecting Taylor will only enhance his value because we do Billsy things.
Thurman#1 Posted February 14, 2017 Posted February 14, 2017 (edited) The 7-9 and 8-8 seasons the past two seasons are a big thanks to Rex Ryan. Him along with the guys who thought he would be a good hire botched any progression the team made the prior seasons before he got here. The team can still win with much better coaching and keeping Tyrod, IMO. The last two seasons are a big thanks to Rex? Yeah, agreed. A bad hire. But it's been sixteen years of "Maybe we can get by with this sub-mediocre QB and get to a Super Bowl anyway." Keep Tyrod and IMHO that'll be seventeen years of no playoffs. Ceiling would be a playoffs one-and-done. I'm not alone thinking that another seven or eight or nine-win season won't make me a single angstrom unit happier than a two or three-win season with a great draft pick producing a real impact player. I don't want it to get worse. But to me, there is only one thing I react to at this point as far as being happier or sadder. And that's whether we've stepped towards becoming a team that contend for a title in the long run. And we haven't, not since the Music City Miscarriage of Justice. I don't care about anything else. And keeping Tyrod and winning a game or two extra over the cheaper guy we can replace him with won't be a step towards a title. It's a step towards winning a couple extra games in yet another of a seemingly endless string of mediocre years. But it was Tyrod too. It wasn't only the defense. That's the way football works. It isn't only Tyrod. But he's a part of it. The pass game simply hasn't been good. They can win? Yeah, agreed with that too. Hell, we won seven this year and eight last year. Maybe next year would be nine with Tyrod. But he shows zero signs of being the kind of QB that Super Bowl contenders have. And his contract impact is way out-of-whack for the player he is. Edited February 14, 2017 by Thurman#1
John from Riverside Posted February 14, 2017 Posted February 14, 2017 Long term QB? No. Short term as in the next two years? Yes. I've said many times keep Tyrod AND draft one in the first because the likelihood of getting one better then Tyrod over the next two years is slim to none.... and if by chance the guy you draft IS better then Tyrod then nobody will give a **** about Tyrods cap number as a back up because we would have a solid QB and in all likelihood the team will be winning more then losing. this
Maury Ballstein Posted February 14, 2017 Posted February 14, 2017 this This ? http://youtube.com/watch?v=MIAuac3WdrQ&feature=onebox
BADOLBILZ Posted February 14, 2017 Posted February 14, 2017 It can get worse than this ? How is that possible ? Kudos to McCoy and MG for carrying this anchor for long periods of time. http://youtube.com/watch?feature=onebox&v=mXUvHzCGrkU It's funny that you keep showing that because Taylor played exceptionally well early in that game. He made plays that other QB's couldn't to help the Bills get an improbable lead on the road against the AFC's top seed.........but the Bills defense was atrocious that day. The momentum swung hard in the second half and the NFLDPOY Khalil Mack forced a rare fumble by Taylor and they lost the game. It's not like he fumbled a snap or threw a pick 6.........the best D-man in the league for the top ranked team in the conference made a play. The only thing stopping Carr and the Raiders that day were penalties and dropped touchdown passes. When the team plays poorly around them franchise QB's blow leads against good teams too........see Matty Ice in the SB or Aaron Rodgers against Seattle in the NFC Championship game in 2015.
Hyphe23 Posted February 14, 2017 Posted February 14, 2017 I understand Tyrod is not a top quarterback like everyone would love to have, but it could be a lot worse. Our two best scoring offenses in the last 10 year have been these past two years under Tyrod. In that same time period there have been 58 QBs drafted in the first 3 rounds! Obviously a ton of those have been busts. I'm fine drafting and developing but just giving that rookie or Cardale the job is no guarantee our offense will improve no matter what weaknesses Tyrod has.
BuffaloRebound Posted February 14, 2017 Posted February 14, 2017 Long term QB? No. Short term as in the next two years? Yes. I've said many times keep Tyrod AND draft one in the first because the likelihood of getting one better then Tyrod over the next two years is slim to none.... and if by chance the guy you draft IS better then Tyrod then nobody will give a **** about Tyrods cap number as a back up because we would have a solid QB and in all likelihood the team will be winning more then losing. Begrudgingly coming around to this viewpoint on the condition that whoever was responsible for Tyrods contract be fired.
JohnC Posted February 14, 2017 Posted February 14, 2017 Buffalo rejecting Taylor will only enhance his value because we do Billsy things. Buffalo rejecting TT will have little bearing on his value. Teams will do their own calculations regarding his value and their respective cap situation. Being desperate at the position doesn't mean that they are going to automatically give out large panic money. Ask Houston now if they think that they acted prudently on the Osweiller acquisition and contract? Ask Denver if they regret not over indulging for Osweiller? The Bills front office and the new coaching staff are going to collective decide what to do. I think they are going to decide to retain him. But if they don't keep him the decision will be made for what is best for the team not only for the immediate term but for the future. If TT is let go I will wish him well and hope he thrives wherever he ends up. Sometimes players surprisingly make quantum leaps. Jeff Garcia, Gannon and Kurt Warner come to mind. What I am hoping is that he remains with Buffalo and makes enough improvement as a qb that will enable this team to move forward while still allowing it to seek better options at his position.
JohnC Posted February 14, 2017 Posted February 14, 2017 It is a little frustrating its essentially another two year commitment, but it's really not a bad situation... assuming they keep drafting QBs early. Exactly where I stand. Whether it is this year or next that this franchise brings in a high end qb prospect having TT is a good situation to be in. My position is that because we have a credible qb that allows a prospect the time to develop. Or another way of saying it is having TT is a strong argument to make a qb selection sooner rather than later. Is there a chance that a light bulb goes off and TT becomes a very good qb? Is there a chance that Cardale exploits his physical attributes and becomes a starter? Is there a chance that the qb prospect we bring in with a high draft choice demonstrates that he has the potential to be a good qb? If these listed questions are anwered with a yes I'm not going to complain. That is a problem that a franchise should relish.
Maury Ballstein Posted February 14, 2017 Posted February 14, 2017 (edited) It's funny that you keep showing that because Taylor played exceptionally well early in that game. He made plays that other QB's couldn't to help the Bills get an improbable lead on the road against the AFC's top seed.........but the Bills defense was atrocious that day. The momentum swung hard in the second half and the NFLDPOY Khalil Mack forced a rare fumble by Taylor and they lost the game. It's not like he fumbled a snap or threw a pick 6.........the best D-man in the league for the top ranked team in the conference made a play. The only thing stopping Carr and the Raiders that day were penalties and dropped touchdown passes. When the team plays poorly around them franchise QB's blow leads against good teams too........see Matty Ice in the SB or Aaron Rodgers against Seattle in the NFC Championship game in 2015. Yea that's what happened. Sweep the 18-35 191 yard one INT performance under the rug. Your man got pantsed by one of the worst defenses in the league. Why talk about Matt Ryan and Tyrod ? Matt Ryan dumped 398 yards and 3 Td's on them with ease then they ate Tyrod's lunch http://youtube.com/watch?v=_smNKEZn5ho&feature=onebox Edited February 14, 2017 by Ryan L Billz
LeGOATski Posted February 14, 2017 Posted February 14, 2017 Ok. Watkins should focus on playing an entire season. when Sammy was mostly healthy in 2015 he lit it up with TT. Not sure why anyone thinks he wouldnt want TT. Agreed. I don't get where that notion comes from. Fans just spewing BS because it's the off-season, I guess. However, I agree that it would be idiotic to hold on to Tyrod and not draft a QB early(1st or 2nd round)in this year or next years draft. I say next year. This QB class is bad. Lets see how Tyrod and Cardale develop.
JohnC Posted February 14, 2017 Posted February 14, 2017 Exactly. The biggest issue people seem to have a problem with is Tyrods cap number the next two years. Like I said, no one will give a **** IF Tyrod is playing well and the team is winning OR they draft a guy early and he emerges as a better option then Tyrod. However, I agree that it would be idiotic to hold on to Tyrod and not draft a QB early(1st or 2nd round)in this year or next years draft. I hope I'm wrong but my instincts about Whaley suggests that he is not going to use a high draft choice on a qb. Whaley tends to value his selected players more highly than he sometimes should. So I think he is going to be hesitant to use a high pick on a qb because he is enamored with Cardale as his prized future prospect. In my ideal world I would love a trade down in the draft to select Mahomes. This is a rich defensive talent draft so we still can address needs with the other picks. Whaley's performance has been uneven in how he has handled his drafts. Where he makes his mark is getting good mid-range value from the free agent market. While we put a lot of attention on the draft what is going to be the most important factor in reworking this roster is the smart way he makes his acquisitions from the market.
jeffismagic Posted February 14, 2017 Posted February 14, 2017 I hope I'm wrong but my instincts about Whaley suggests that he is not going to use a high draft choice on a qb. Whaley tends to value his selected players more highly than he sometimes should. So I think he is going to be hesitant to use a high pick on a qb because he is enamored with Cardale as his prized future prospect. In my ideal world I would love a trade down in the draft to select Mahomes. This is a rich defensive talent draft so we still can address needs with the other picks. Whaley's performance has been uneven in how he has handled his drafts. Where he makes his mark is getting good mid-range value from the free agent market. While we put a lot of attention on the draft what is going to be the most important factor in reworking this roster is the smart way he makes his acquisitions from the market. I love Mahomes but he is probably too short for Whaley. Unfortunately Whaley doesn't prize pocket presence and accuracy in a QB.
jeffismagic Posted February 14, 2017 Posted February 14, 2017 Who cares about accuracy if the guy is big strong and has "it" like EJ? Small sample size with EJ and Cardale but it does seem Whaley falls in love with the big prototype size QB.
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