LI_Bills Posted February 13, 2017 Posted February 13, 2017 Moss will go in. TO will wait another year IMO. I have a bigger problem with Moss than TO. I thought Moss quit on the Raiders, thats worse than anything I can remember TO doing. I wasn't a fan of either player but they both belong.
YoloinOhio Posted February 13, 2017 Posted February 13, 2017 Moss will go in. TO will wait another year IMO.moss should be 1st ballot, but you never know with this bunch of clowns. He had many of the same issues as T.O.
Zulu Cthulhu Posted February 13, 2017 Posted February 13, 2017 His decision to vote against Owens is dumb and ill informed. Surprised his piece isn't on the main page given TO's one OK season as a Bill. I agree with Florio here: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/category/rumor-mill/. My takeaway: keep Carucci far, far away from HOF voting. Owens should have been a slam-dunk first ballot hall of famer. Amen. Sucks because I actually did appreciate Vic from time to time. This was it though. I give Vic a slightest possible credit for actually going public with a "rationale" (if you can call it that), but his article just confirmed my suspicions. Again we have flimsy generalizations from Vic and Fouts (that idiot, of all people) about TO being a "bad teammate" and "ripping teams apart." No names named, no specifics outlining Owens' supposed locker room sabotage. Florio said it best in his rebuttal - the HOF is simply a popularity contest and a chance for the voting writers to stroke their egos. If TO can't get in (I assume this will apply to Moss as well) then the HOF means about as much as the friggin Pro Bowl. Vic, despite his senility, actually came upon 1 good idea in his screed - just leave the voting up to a computer. The current voters have proven they aren't capable of the task. I didn't read it, but saw some chatter about it on Twitter. It's like he's trying to be an idiot on purpose, to get people to react and click on the article. The Sully School of Journalism, if you will. Unfortunately I think he actually believes it.
CommonCents Posted February 13, 2017 Posted February 13, 2017 moss should be 1st ballot, but you never know with this bunch of clowns. He had many of the same issues as T.O. Moss was a Patriot. That's an extra year wait.
dave mcbride Posted February 13, 2017 Author Posted February 13, 2017 (edited) Amen. Sucks because I actually did appreciate Vic from time to time. This was it though. I give Vic a slightest possible credit for actually going public with a "rationale" (if you can call it that), but his article just confirmed my suspicions. Again we have flimsy generalizations from Vic and Fouts (that idiot, of all people) about TO being a "bad teammate" and "ripping teams apart." No names named, no specifics outlining Owens' supposed locker room sabotage. Florio said it best in his rebuttal - the HOF is simply a popularity contest and a chance for the voting writers to stroke their egos. If TO can't get in (I assume this will apply to Moss as well) then the HOF means about as much as the friggin Pro Bowl. Vic, despite his senility, actually came upon 1 good idea in his screed - just leave the voting up to a computer. The current voters have proven they aren't capable of the task. Unfortunately I think he actually believes it. Great post, especially your point about computers. I fear that our future robot overlords will look at this piece by Carucci and decide to activate the "mass extinction" program. Edited February 13, 2017 by dave mcbride
Zulu Cthulhu Posted February 13, 2017 Posted February 13, 2017 Great post, especially your point about computers. I fear that our future robot overlords will look at this piece by Carucci and decide to activate the "mass extinction" program. Thanks - one other thing I forgot that Florio pointed out im his rebuttal - this idea from Vic and/or Fouts that since TO played for a number of teams, it somehow contributes to his disqualification. Because, according to them, if TO was truly valuable, his teams "would find a way to keep him." My head exploded. Not sure Vic knows what year it is or that we've had free agency for a while now. SF gave TO multiple contracts, as did Dallas. Drawing Vic's non-argument out to its logical conclusion, should the HOF be reserved only for players that played for 1 team their whole career?
sistersarah Posted February 13, 2017 Posted February 13, 2017 I don't understand all this TO should be in the hall of fame. Let him wait it out like a great deal of other wide outs in recent years. Maybe it will humble him. Case in point, Chris Carter. Look at the past history of inductees. How long did it take Andre Reed, Tim Brown, Art Monk. It is extremely difficult to get in the hall and many greats have had to wait.
EasternOHBillsFan Posted February 13, 2017 Posted February 13, 2017 2nd best wideout of all time. HAHAHAHA!!!!!! How can you seriously type that?????? Jerry Rice Andre Reed Marvin Harrison Torry Holt Michael Irvin Right off the bat... wideouts superior to Terrell Owens. Geez.......
bobobonators Posted February 13, 2017 Posted February 13, 2017 HAHAHAHA!!!!!! How can you seriously type that?????? Jerry Rice Andre Reed Marvin Harrison Torry Holt Michael Irvin Right off the bat... wideouts superior to Terrell Owens. Geez....... Lol. Superior in what way? Terrell Owens numbers blow away Harrison, Reed, Holt, and Irvin. More yards/td's than any of those guys. So whats your subjective basis for analysis?
Rico Posted February 13, 2017 Posted February 13, 2017 HAHAHAHA!!!!!! How can you seriously type that?????? Jerry Rice Andre Reed Marvin Harrison Torry Holt Michael Irvin Right off the bat... wideouts superior to Terrell Owens. Geez....... Only Rice, the others are not even close.
The Jokeman Posted February 13, 2017 Posted February 13, 2017 2nd best wideout of all time.I'd put Rice and Moss above him and maybe even Megatron.
bobobonators Posted February 13, 2017 Posted February 13, 2017 (edited) I don't understand all this TO should be in the hall of fame. Let him wait it out like a great deal of other wide outs in recent years. Maybe it will humble him. Case in point, Chris Carter. Look at the past history of inductees. How long did it take Andre Reed, Tim Brown, Art Monk. It is extremely difficult to get in the hall and many greats have had to wait. In terms of WR its really Rice, Moss, and then Owens. Owens is 2nd all time in yards and 3rd all time in TD's. The players you mention were great players, but to be top 3 at your position ALL TIME and not be a first ballot HOF is laughable. IMO. I'd put Rice and Moss above him and maybe even Megatron.Megatron was awesome. But IMO part of being at a Rice Owens Moss level is the ability to do it over a long duration of time. Megatron didnt. He falls a bit short of that level Edited February 13, 2017 by bobobonators
EasternOHBillsFan Posted February 13, 2017 Posted February 13, 2017 Only Rice, the others are not even close. ANYONE can take a number and apply it and say "Ohh, by the numbers this player was X best player of all time." That is garbage. No one will say that John Hadl was a better quarterback than Joe Namath. Terrell Owens did not have the kind of impact a Top 5 of all time professional player has, point blank.
4merper4mer Posted February 13, 2017 Posted February 13, 2017 The pinnacle of irony about vic and his ilk is that the self-absorbed and me-first attitudes they describe to put down athletes like TO are the very same attributes they display when they pull $h*t like this. Embarrassing. B I N G O
Rico Posted February 13, 2017 Posted February 13, 2017 (edited) ANYONE can take a number and apply it and say "Ohh, by the numbers this player was X best player of all time." That is garbage. No one will say that John Hadl was a better quarterback than Joe Namath. Terrell Owens did not have the kind of impact a Top 5 of all time professional player has, point blank. Actually I think stats are for losers when it comes to the NFL. When it comes to overall impact on the game and FAME, TO far surpasses the names on your list other than Rice (though I do think Irvin and Andre are HOF-worthy) . Can't write the history of the game without him. Edited February 13, 2017 by Rico
Thurman#1 Posted February 13, 2017 Posted February 13, 2017 (edited) Yeah, this is some hot mess. There are many teammates who loved T.O. at every stop. He has never been arrested or accused of any criminal activity off the field and had a well regarded work ethic in NFL circles, a work ethic that included putting up some of the best numbers ever seen at the WR position. He could run all the routes, he was a difference maker; played the Super Bowl on a broken leg and was the best player on the field. He should have already been in the HOF on ballot one, but definitely this year. It's an embarrassment for these voters that he is not. The HOF voters have no reasonable justification for leaving him out in spite of spinning yarns trying to justify it. Sure there's a reasonable justification. If you don't want to agree with him being out, that's fine, but the decision is reasonable. As Carucci points out, "Before we vote, Hall administrators admonish us to consider only what takes place within the confines of the field. But those white lines, as they acknowledge, can extend to the locker room and the meeting rooms and anywhere else that football-related activity takes place." Simple as that. If the locker room counts, there's an argument against Owens, a reasonable argument. And particularly to his going in this particular time, on the first ballot. Here's Carucci's original article rather than Florio's disagreement to it: https://buffalonews.com/2017/02/10/vic-carucci-thinking-behind-not-voting-for-terrell-owens-into-the-pro-football-hall-of-fame/ Edited February 13, 2017 by Thurman#1
Zulu Cthulhu Posted February 13, 2017 Posted February 13, 2017 I don't understand all this TO should be in the hall of fame. Let him wait it out like a great deal of other wide outs in recent years. Maybe it will humble him. Case in point, Chris Carter. Look at the past history of inductees. How long did it take Andre Reed, Tim Brown, Art Monk. It is extremely difficult to get in the hall and many greats have had to wait. WOW you are out of touch bud.
boyst Posted February 13, 2017 Posted February 13, 2017 I read your link. Carucci should be embarrassed for his illogical and shodding thinking on this issue. There is a stereotypical portrayal of Owens because of his antics not associated with his performance. There were teammates who strongly endorsed TO and there may have been others who had a divergent opinion. Regardless what their personal opinions were about him no once can dispute his on field record. A HOF voter should take his role more seriously and not be so casually dismissive of any candidate that he is evaluating, especially for non-performance reasons. Vic was involved in determining a person's legacy. It definitely seemed to me that the voter lacked the knowledge and perspective on the player he is considering for entrance into such a lofty membership. I'm not a fan of TO and never have been. But he should have been inducted into the HOF with a near unanimous vote. This was unfair. Vic Carucci certainly didn't distinguish himself in this process. He should be ashamed of himself. it is a reflection of the last 20 yrs of media. A "newsman" "reporter" or "media expert" (I can't get italics on cell easily for expert) believes they are of a moral high ground in which they must make a statement of impact to educate us, the public, swine vermin, basket of deplorables, etc. Its worth note looking at recent history on how the public responds once they hear this rhetoric enough. Carucci is treating us as if we need enlightened to a higher ground of intelligence. Sullivan, major news networks, ESPN, olberman, et al take this route. It is why some of the best sources of information remain so distant from opinion. It is why someone like Adam schefter receives different treatment than Jason lacanforwhatever. Schefter is wrong a lot and has done some vile things as a journalist but he seldom grandstands any of his news the way jason lafrenchpansy does. Reporting isn't about the news if you can educate someone. It hasn't been for a while. Watch how the dam situation in California will play out. It will be blame and blame and blame until someone can take a minute to educate someone on what happened to get us here. At that point we will blame them because they appear to have known the issue.
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