Meathead Posted February 11, 2017 Posted February 11, 2017 It's all good. Back in the day, I was a Gary Marangi fanboy... until he actually started games. hahahahhahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!! i remember that well. i was at that game marangi came in after an injury and slung the ball around like a madman and got away with it. so fans immediately made him their pet project calling for him any time things werent going well for joe. they finally give him an extended chance at the job and holy hell did he suck festering monkey ass might seriously be the absolute worst qb to ever start more than two games. just incredibly brutally bad
mannc Posted February 11, 2017 Posted February 11, 2017 (edited) Expanding on what i said earlier. I want cardale to succeed. My main concern is that we've been consistently told hes a project. So to go from project going into week 17 one season to starting QB the following season seems like a stretch. Before Romo went down, was anyone in the Cowboys' front office saying that Prescott was ready to start? If so, I missed it. No one has any real idea how Cardale would do if he were given a chance to play. I'm sure Cardale would struggle at times, but so what? With his tools, if he was a totally polished product, he would not have been available at the very end of round 4. The fact that you are ready to base your opinion about Cardale on how he did in one quarter of garbage time in a game that the Bills were actively trying to lose is just beyond silly. Edited February 11, 2017 by mannc
tedstrong Posted February 11, 2017 Posted February 11, 2017 (edited) After reading many well considered opinions...I say, with some reluctance, let Tyrod go to free up cap money to keep as many of out FA's as possible. If he reduces his price substantially, keep him. I am quite sure that Cardale has all the tools, including the confidence and the game not being too big for him. Also lost in all the analysis I have read here, THAT YOUNG MAN IS GOING TO BE DURABLE. Witness some of the sacks and pounding he took, he bounced up and was joking with the Jets (same in pre-season). Frankly, mentally, confidence wise I see a young Jim Kelly. Physically I see Big Ben. Edited February 11, 2017 by tedstrong
KD in CA Posted February 11, 2017 Posted February 11, 2017 Great; so only one more year to confirm that Whaley needs to go and Jones has no future as a starter? Sign me up! Bills are right on track to get their act together in time for the post-BB/TB era in 2020.
NewEra Posted February 11, 2017 Posted February 11, 2017 Great post. Some fans need a blanket and a cup of hot chocolate that the average to below average QB Tyrod Taylor can deliver. Some fans are ok with trading the dream of being great for the security of just not becoming the Browns. Hence the longing for Tyrod Taylor to be the starting QB. It’s kind of shocking how scared fans are of starting Cardale Jones. This is NFL football. If you can’t get it done, it’s “next man up”. IMO Taylor’s a finished product and he’s clearly not good enough (even his biggest supporters admit this). This team took Jones in the 4th round, he red shirted the year, in early December coach Lynn said that Jones “is what you want waiting on the runway”, Jones even said that he was ready, Jim Kelly said that he would have started Jones the remaining 3- 4 games. There’s way too much over-thinking here. Some fans make the NFL into rocket science. The only way to know if Jones truly has it is to start him (as with all QBs drafted not named Peyton Manning or Andrew Luck). What was the point of drafting Jones last year if they weren’t going to play him (if Taylor failed to prove himself of picking up the option). The natural progression is to start the second year player Jones in 2017. Anything else is just being timid. What if he fails? So what, they’ll have a top 5 pick in 2018, a draft loaded with franchise type of QBs. The flip side is if Jones is the real deal, you've finally found your franchise QB. Exactly.
Buffalo Boy Posted February 11, 2017 Posted February 11, 2017 You are suggesting that the Bills are hiding what an awesome player Cardale really is. What did they do, tell him to go out in that Jets game and play well below his true talent level so that nobody knows how good he really is? Whaley is playing peek a boo with the rest of the NFL? We were told a lot of things such as we are " going to build s bully" and Rex though TT was the second coming. How'd those turn out for us?
White Linen Posted February 11, 2017 Posted February 11, 2017 I'd like everyone to remember how they would have answered this question when our defense was #4 in the league. Then tell me who we've lost vs added that would make you change your mind?
NewEra Posted February 11, 2017 Posted February 11, 2017 Fair post. I think better coaching on defense alone will make the defense better and hopefully they can find a way to keep both Tyrod and Gilmore. My point has always been if they pick up Tyrods contract your basically keeping him for two more years.... it be difficult to find better QB play from a rookie or whoever over that two year span then Tyrod. It's possible to go both directions. Keep Tyrod AND draft a QB. sure we can but we're giving our 1st rd pick qb less talent to work with. 20 mill a year can be spent on quality players that can help our defense become elite and improve our OL and WRs. We have MANY holes right now. The free agents we have are in mass. Many of them were starters or solid backups that played solid snaps this year. I don't think people realize how many holes we currently have. It's not just starters where we need a #2 and 3 WR, a RT, 1 LB (minimum, Preston brown sucks), a CB and a safety (maybe 2). Almost all of our backup DL are free agents. Gillislee will get a pay raise. 3 players from our defense that made the Pro Bowl are free agents. If we draft a Qb in the first AND keep tyrod cap hit the next 2 years how are we going to become an elite defense? Sure, coaching helps, but this unit will not be elite. Not even close. We just don't have enough resources to pay tyrod, draft a qb #1 AND build an elite defense. It's just not going to happen unless we get extremely lucky. Last year Whaley pulled 2 rabbits out of the hat with Alexander and Zach Brown. I think he's going to have to pull 5 rabbits out this offseason in order to become a contender this offseason. I understand why people want to keep tyrod, because he's the best option we have. That's doesn't necessarily mean keeping him at His current pay scale is the right move in order to build a consistent winner. Like I've said, I won't be mad if we keep tyrod. I like him and I'll root for him (just as I root for every bill) but I think the best direction for this team to go is to let him loose and see what we have in cardale (I'm not very optimistic, but he has all the physical tools and is much smarter than most here think) while using the money we saved on TT to build a better overall team. If cardale pans out, then we win. If he sucks, we draft our QB next year in a blue chip class.
NewEra Posted February 11, 2017 Posted February 11, 2017 Wishful thinking. There's jobs on the line here. You think Pegula will be happy with a 4-12 season if starting Cardale? You think fans will? McDermott will look like a schmuck and fans will already be calling for his head. Do you think anyone will ever remember a 4-12 season if it enables us to draft a stud qb that leads us to the playoffs every year? If we start cardale and finish 4-12 do you really think fans will think McDermott is a schmuck? I know you and others that think like you would proabaly think he is. I certainly wouldn't. I realize that you need a good qb to succeed in the NFL. I realize that TT is not "good". He's ok. In the last 17 years of our playoff drought we've picked in the top 4 two times. We drafted OT Mike Williams (Carr peppers and Harrington were taken ahead of us with no other QB prospects to choose from) and Marcel Dareus (Cam and Von Miller taken before us and Blaine Gabbert being the next best QB according to most). We consistently pick in the 8-15 slot and consistently miss out on the top QBs. Sure, we could get lucky in later rounds but the majority of the top QBs are selected before we choose in rd 1. I wouldn't mind tanking a season to select a qb we can hang our hat on. It's been 17 years, I can wait one more. Even more so when looking at our schedule. I don't think we'll be making the playoffs with TT as our QB. I hope I'm wrong (if we keep him), but I'd hate to finish 7-9 when we could've seen what we have in Cardale while also putting us in contention for a top pick if he fails. TT is good enough to keep us from a top 3 pick but it good enough to lead us to the promised land The GM doesn't pick the QB who starts....that prevents Whaley from making that decision. Cardale is a specimen for sure, but, not sure he has it mentally. And, all the coaches who helped tutor him this past season are gone......new staff will be starting over with Cardale. I wonder how much he really learned. The fact he was reported to have watched at least one Ohio State football game in full uniform tells me maturity isn't his strong point. Letting TT walk might do two things for Whaley....eliminates a competent QB from the competition...thus giving Cardale a better shot. And, of course, it lightens up the major cap problem a lot. I have to say I am really tired of Whaley advocating for "his" guy.....TT not being "his" (REX's) I say the new HC gets the final word on starting QB....and I am going to be real surprised if Cardale gets the nod. Whaley did arrange to have EJ "audition" for the QB job at the last Jets game........we all saw how that turned out....EJ gone......Bills need to picup 2 QB's if TT is let go. And, I don't want a rookie backing up the starter. MAYBE Cardale is the backup this year, but who is going to start if TT is let go? Whoever we pick up is most likely going to be crap. Why even pay them money we can be spending on quality players for our foundation? Either keep TT and hope he can lead us to the playoffs to break the drought (and most likely a 1st rd exit) or rebuild and put yourself in position to acquire what this team hasn't had in 20+ years. A GOOD QB. Something TT is not. He's ok Whaley must covet the No.1 pick of the 2018 draft...... 18 years of this crap is getting a bit tough on us paying customers. And it will be another 18 years of this crap until we get a good QB. TT is not that
mead107 Posted February 11, 2017 Posted February 11, 2017 Until he has a a news conference and says that I call bull crap. Fake news
NewEra Posted February 11, 2017 Posted February 11, 2017 (edited) IMO. Any example that has HOF QB's in it is not a good example. To say they are the exception as opposed to the rule is an understatment. So we should just continue to go 7-9 and hope that 10-15 teams bypass the top prospects in the draft or that we accomplish the "exception" and land a great QB in rd 2-7? All the while we pay our QB that's not good enough 20 mill a year and allow our other good players to walk. Sounds like a plan. Not a very good one imo. Edited February 11, 2017 by NewEra
BillsFan2313 Posted February 11, 2017 Posted February 11, 2017 7-9, 8-8 with Tyrod, 4-12 with Cardale, both = missed playoffs, but a top 5 pick with Cardale. Why are their people crying over this news?
Mike in Horseheads Posted February 11, 2017 Posted February 11, 2017 7-9, 8-8 with Tyrod, 4-12 with Cardale, both = missed playoffs, but a top 5 pick with Cardale. Why are their people crying over this news? 7-9, 8-8 with Tyrod, 4-12 with Cardale, both = missed playoffs, but a top 5 pick with Cardale. Why are their people crying over this news? What news? Show me some credible links
NewEra Posted February 11, 2017 Posted February 11, 2017 (edited) I'd like everyone to remember how they would have answered this question when our defense was #4 in the league. Then tell me who we've lost vs added that would make you change your mind?We can answer that question when we keep tyrod and free agency starts. Not something we can answer right now. Keeping tyrod means we will lose a lot more than if we cut him. Starters and depth. We won't have the same defense as when we were #4 in the league, so your point is moot imo. Edited February 11, 2017 by NewEra
Sandy McFiddish Posted February 11, 2017 Posted February 11, 2017 I would rather take a chance on Mike Glennon, I think we could get him very cheap. I know he is average now but so was Rich Gannon for a very long time.
Mike in Horseheads Posted February 11, 2017 Posted February 11, 2017 I would rather take a chance on Mike Glennon, I think we could get him very cheap. I know he is average now but so was Rich Gannon for a very long time. And how "very cheap" do you think that will be?
NewEra Posted February 11, 2017 Posted February 11, 2017 And how "very cheap" do you think that will be? Exactly. Very cheap compared to tyrod. I'm guessing 7-9 mill a year. Eh. He's a statue. I'd rather go with cardale
jeffismagic Posted February 11, 2017 Posted February 11, 2017 Do you think anyone will ever remember a 4-12 season if it enables us to draft a stud qb that leads us to the playoffs every year? If we start cardale and finish 4-12 do you really think fans will think McDermott is a schmuck? I know you and others that think like you would proabaly think he is. I certainly wouldn't. I realize that you need a good qb to succeed in the NFL. I realize that TT is not "good". He's ok. In the last 17 years of our playoff drought we've picked in the top 4 two times. We drafted OT Mike Williams (Carr peppers and Harrington were taken ahead of us with no other QB prospects to choose from) and Marcel Dareus (Cam and Von Miller taken before us and Blaine Gabbert being the next best QB according to most). We consistently pick in the 8-15 slot and consistently miss out on the top QBs. Sure, we could get lucky in later rounds but the majority of the top QBs are selected before we choose in rd 1. I wouldn't mind tanking a season to select a qb we can hang our hat on. It's been 17 years, I can wait one more. Even more so when looking at our schedule. I don't think we'll be making the playoffs with TT as our QB. I hope I'm wrong (if we keep him), but I'd hate to finish 7-9 when we could've seen what we have in Cardale while also putting us in contention for a top pick if he fails. TT is good enough to keep us from a top 3 pick but it good enough to lead us to the promised land Whoever we pick up is most likely going to be crap. Why even pay them money we can be spending on quality players for our foundation? Either keep TT and hope he can lead us to the playoffs to break the drought (and most likely a 1st rd exit) or rebuild and put yourself in position to acquire what this team hasn't had in 20+ years. A GOOD QB. Something TT is not. He's ok And it will be another 18 years of this crap until we get a good QB. TT is not that Normally people are right and that you can't really tank in football. Most drafts don't have elite QB prospects and it's hard to predict the future. However, all the stars are aligning this year to be bad. Lots of free agents gone, little cap space, and we have an out on Tyrod. 2018 looks like a special year for QB's like the 2014 draft was for WR's.
Meathead Posted February 12, 2017 Posted February 12, 2017 yeah but if the bills wanted to tank they would have to sell that to the fan base and i seriously doubt the fans are interested in waiting another non-playoff season on purpose. season tickets would plunge and the stadium would be half empty the entire second half of the season. theres no way they could have cardale start and not telegraph a tank so that seems like an impossible situation. unless of course cardale were to shock everyone and emerge as a force, but that seems far fetched right now
Gugny Posted February 12, 2017 Posted February 12, 2017 yeah but if the bills wanted to tank they would have to sell that to the fan base and i seriously doubt the fans are interested in waiting another non-playoff season on purpose. season tickets would plunge and the stadium would be half empty the entire second half of the season. theres no way they could have cardale start and not telegraph a tank so that seems like an impossible situation. unless of course cardale were to shock everyone and emerge as a force, but that seems far fetched right now Agreed. They'll save money by dumping Tyrod, then acquire someone via FA or draft to get those ticket sales (the Pegula way ... handed down from RCW) so it's another profitable crap season. But at least if they actually get a decent first round pick out of it (i.e. - generate excitement for 2018 ticket sales), the fan base will be okay. and the Pegulas will be able to feed their family.
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