jeffismagic Posted February 16, 2017 Posted February 16, 2017 I have openly criticized Whaley for not adequately addressing the qb position. That's a lingering criticism and a fair criticism. His involvement with the drafting of EJ was an unmitigated boondoggle. Although Nix made the selection he was involved in the scouting and ranking of the poor qb class that year. Taking a third or fourth round caliber of player, regardless of position, in the first round was a mistake that plagued this team for years. With respect to the highlighted area regarding the defense why are you putting the blame on the GM? It was the loud HC who took a good defense that worked for two different DCs and imposed a system that didn't fit the personal he had. On top of that when players were brought in to suit his outdated system it still was a clunker of a defense. That's on the coach who when fired left in a huff with his pockets stuffed with cash to soothe his dumb arse. I have never made the claim that Whaley is an elite GM. Because he is not. But I do see him as being a credible GM who still has a lot to prove. I would give him a C to C plus grade. If he doesn't come up with a good qb prospect this year I will lower the grade. This is about where I am. I think Whaley did put together a playoff team that would have broken the drought but Rex messed it up. The Pegulas are now giving Whaley the chance to do it again. I want to see what we do at QB. I don't hate Cardale but that is a long shot. Whaley has 2 drafts to bring in a real QB.
JohnC Posted February 16, 2017 Posted February 16, 2017 This is about where I am. I think Whaley did put together a playoff team that would have broken the drought but Rex messed it up. The Pegulas are now giving Whaley the chance to do it again. I want to see what we do at QB. I don't hate Cardale but that is a long shot. Whaley has 2 drafts to bring in a real QB. Your position is close to my position. Where I slightly disagree with you is that I strongly believe there are good enough qbs in this draft that would be considered legitimate starting qbs. If Whaley drafts a DB with his first pick without seriously addressing the qb position I will be very upset. If TT is retained I will give him a little more leeway on the time frame.
FireChan Posted February 16, 2017 Posted February 16, 2017 I have openly criticized Whaley for not adequately addressing the qb position. That's a lingering criticism and a fair criticism. His involvement with the drafting of EJ was an unmitigated boondoggle. Although Nix made the selection he was involved in the scouting and ranking of the poor qb class that year. Taking a third or fourth round caliber of player, regardless of position, in the first round was a mistake that plagued this team for years. With respect to the highlighted area regarding the defense why are you putting the blame on the GM? It was the loud HC who took a good defense that worked for two different DCs and imposed a system that didn't fit the personal he had. On top of that when players were brought in to suit his outdated system it still was a clunker of a defense. That's on the coach who when fired left in a huff with his pockets stuffed with cash to soothe his dumb arse. I have never made the claim that Whaley is an elite GM. Because he is not. But I do see him as being a credible GM who still has a lot to prove. I would give him a C to C plus grade. If he doesn't come up with a good qb prospect this year I will lower the grade. Whaley made the selection of EJ. I don't care that he took a shot and he sucked. I care that Whaley took a shot, saw he sucked, pretended otherwise and doubled down with the Watkins trade and not doing anything else until taking Cardale in the 4th 4 years later. To the bolded, Whaley vetted Rex. He signed off on it. They had the same ideas about building a team. They were finishing each others' sentences. Whaley was culpable for the hire.
GunnerBill Posted February 16, 2017 Posted February 16, 2017 To the bolded, Whaley vetted Rex. He signed off on it. They had the same ideas about building a team. They were finishing each others' sentences. Whaley was culpable for the hire. To a small extent. Rex is on Terry and Kim first an foremost.
voodoo poonani Posted February 16, 2017 Posted February 16, 2017 Let me guess, Cardale is supposed to catch his own passes too? What we need is an upgraded WR corps.
FireChan Posted February 16, 2017 Posted February 16, 2017 To a small extent. Rex is on Terry and Kim first an foremost. Oh, there's plenty of blame to go around. I just don't give the "football guy" a pass who ran the show vetting Rex on football topics.
JohnC Posted February 16, 2017 Posted February 16, 2017 To the bolded, Whaley vetted Rex. He signed off on it. They had the same ideas about building a team. They were finishing each others' sentences. Whaley was culpable for the hire. The Rex hire was a Pegula hire. It was widely reported that Doug favored Hue Jackson. Saying that Whaley and Rex had the same idea about building a team is like saying that there was little difference between Trump and Hillary. It is a ludicrous idea. Rex's idea of building a roster is like Calvin Coolidge's view of running the government: very outdated and disastrous.
FireChan Posted February 16, 2017 Posted February 16, 2017 (edited) The Rex hire was a Pegula hire. It was widely reported that Doug favored Hue Jackson. Saying that Whaley and Rex had the same idea about building a team is like saying that there was little difference between Trump and Hillary. It is a ludicrous idea. Rex's idea of building a roster is like Calvin Coolidge's view of running the government: very outdated and disastrous. It wasn't that widely reported. Even still, just because he favored Hue did not mean he didn't think Rex would be successful. Whaley and Rex absolutely had the same ideas about how to build a team. Don't just take it from me, though. “For me his philosophy on how to build a championship team, a consistent championship team is exactly the way I think a team should be built,” said Whaley. “It’s proven. This past postseason everybody was talking about the conference championship games and the four quarterbacks in there were unbelievable quarterbacks, but the common theme in both of those games was the running game. A running game and a defense is a quarterback’s best friend. And those types of teams consistently compete for championships." “I knew when he started talking about how he wanted to build a team and I could complete his sentences and he could complete mine in how we want the Buffalo Bills to look we were on the same page.” “And at that point Kim said, ‘Well then how do you know?’ [Whaley] said, ‘Unfortunately it’s like when I asked people who were married and I was single. How do you know? You just know.’ And when we got to that point we all looked at each other and knew that Rex was the guy who we wanted to be our next head coach.” http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-1/How-the-Bills-decided-on-Rex-Ryan-as-head-coach/19b740de-0ca3-4dd6-8fdc-58c0cf013fa2 But yeah, Doug Whaley gets a pass for this blunder. Edited February 16, 2017 by FireChan
eball Posted February 16, 2017 Posted February 16, 2017 @FireChan don't you think Whales was simply doing the right thing by his employer by making these comments RIGHT AFTER Rex was hired? Come on, man. Saying a strong defense and running game helps you consistently compete for championships isn't exactly giving away your detailed roster-building strategy or saying something approximately 99% of people wouldn't agree with.
GunnerBill Posted February 16, 2017 Posted February 16, 2017 Whaley wanted Jackson. I know that for a cast iron fact. He obviously decided and felt he could work with Rex though.... or, and this is worse, he felt he couldn't but kept quiet for fear of jeopardising his own job.
Malazan Posted February 16, 2017 Posted February 16, 2017 So....has there been any confirmation to this rumor or are people just jumping on for funsies?
FireChan Posted February 16, 2017 Posted February 16, 2017 @FireChan don't you think Whales was simply doing the right thing by his employer by making these comments RIGHT AFTER Rex was hired? Come on, man. Saying a strong defense and running game helps you consistently compete for championships isn't exactly giving away your detailed roster-building strategy or saying something approximately 99% of people wouldn't agree with. He could have just said that Rex is the guy they all decided on and they are excited to work with him. Whaley didn't have to wax poetically about the Rexit to be a good guy. See below. Whaley wanted Jackson. I know that for a cast iron fact. He obviously decided and felt he could work with Rex though.... or, and this is worse, he felt he couldn't but kept quiet for fear of jeopardising his own job. Those are the only two possibilities and yet this discussion happens over and over.
JohnC Posted February 16, 2017 Posted February 16, 2017 @FireChan don't you think Whales was simply doing the right thing by his employer by making these comments RIGHT AFTER Rex was hired? Come on, man. Saying a strong defense and running game helps you consistently compete for championships isn't exactly giving away your detailed roster-building strategy or saying something approximately 99% of people wouldn't agree with. The truth of the matter is that it doesn't matter what Whaley or Rex's roster building philosophy or strategy is. Teams have succeeded with different philosophies and strategies. That's not the issue. Rex was a bad coach who couldn't get his players to play his complicated and outdated system. He was more determined to force his players to adjust to his system rather than adjust his system to the players limitations and strengths. Rex was an undisciplined person that was reflected in his chaotic coaching. The record in Buffalo and the downward spiral that happened in Buffalo was similar to what happened in NY. The longer he coached, wherever he was, the worse his team performed. Coaching matters. That was blatantly demonstrated in the two years that the corpulent coach was here. With his departure it is addition by subtraction. I'm very encouraged with the new more silent hire. There is no quick fix for the damage done to this team by the former obtuse HC.
Luxy312 Posted February 16, 2017 Posted February 16, 2017 The truth of the matter is that it doesn't matter what Whaley or Rex's roster building philosophy or strategy is. Teams have succeeded with different philosophies and strategies. That's not the issue. Rex was a bad coach who couldn't get his players to play his complicated and outdated system. He was more determined to force his players to adjust to his system rather than adjust his system to the players limitations and strengths. Rex was an undisciplined person that was reflected in his chaotic coaching. The record in Buffalo and the downward spiral that happened in Buffalo was similar to what happened in NY. The longer he coached, wherever he was, the worse his team performed. Coaching matters. That was blatantly demonstrated in the two years that the corpulent coach was here. With his departure it is addition by subtraction. I'm very encouraged with the new more silent hire. There is no quick fix for the damage done to this team by the former obtuse HC. I've given people an example of this on multiple occasions. I'm baffled to this day, as to how a coach takes a pass rushing defensive tackle in Dareus with a $95m contract and turn him into a run stuffing nose tackle. It is beyond mind numbing, unless you concede your very statement above.
FireChan Posted February 16, 2017 Posted February 16, 2017 The truth of the matter is that it doesn't matter what Whaley or Rex's roster building philosophy or strategy is. Teams have succeeded with different philosophies and strategies. That's not the issue. Rex was a bad coach who couldn't get his players to play his complicated and outdated system. He was more determined to force his players to adjust to his system rather than adjust his system to the players limitations and strengths. Rex was an undisciplined person that was reflected in his chaotic coaching. The record in Buffalo and the downward spiral that happened in Buffalo was similar to what happened in NY. The longer he coached, wherever he was, the worse his team performed. Coaching matters. That was blatantly demonstrated in the two years that the corpulent coach was here. With his departure it is addition by subtraction. I'm very encouraged with the new more silent hire. There is no quick fix for the damage done to this team by the former obtuse HC. Bold take from a guy who just said The Rex hire was a Pegula hire. It was widely reported that Doug favored Hue Jackson. Saying that Whaley and Rex had the same idea about building a team is like saying that there was little difference between Trump and Hillary. It is a ludicrous idea. Rex's idea of building a roster is like Calvin Coolidge's view of running the government: very outdated and disastrous. Dougie disagrees.
Bill from NYC Posted February 16, 2017 Posted February 16, 2017 The truth of the matter is that it doesn't matter what Whaley or Rex's roster building philosophy or strategy is. Teams have succeeded with different philosophies and strategies. That's not the issue. Rex was a bad coach who couldn't get his players to play his complicated and outdated system. He was more determined to force his players to adjust to his system rather than adjust his system to the players limitations and strengths. Rex was an undisciplined person that was reflected in his chaotic coaching. The record in Buffalo and the downward spiral that happened in Buffalo was similar to what happened in NY. The longer he coached, wherever he was, the worse his team performed. Coaching matters. That was blatantly demonstrated in the two years that the corpulent coach was here. With his departure it is addition by subtraction. I'm very encouraged with the new more silent hire. There is no quick fix for the damage done to this team by the former obtuse HC. Whaley put this team in a hole with the foolish, wasteful contracts and squandered draft picks. Rex made matters that much worse. Your post rightfully points fingers at Rex who was a disaster from day 1. Still, Whaley was as undisciplined as Rex. I've given people an example of this on multiple occasions. I'm baffled to this day, as to how a coach takes a pass rushing defensive tackle in Dareus with a $95m contract and turn him into a run stuffing nose tackle. It is beyond mind numbing, unless you concede your very statement above. And then he sent this 350 lb. man into pass coverage.
thebandit27 Posted February 16, 2017 Posted February 16, 2017 And then he sent this 350 lb. man into pass coverage. 9 times the entire season
Bill from NYC Posted February 16, 2017 Posted February 16, 2017 9 times the entire season I'm sure this doesn't include the numerous times he just stood there dancing and futilely waving his arms. Rex and his bad defense were both an utter disgrace.
thebandit27 Posted February 16, 2017 Posted February 16, 2017 I'm sure this doesn't include the numerous times he just stood there dancing and futilely waving his arms. Rex and his bad defense were both an utter disgrace. Obviously Rex didn't get the job done; that doesn't mean we need to overstate the situation. His need to have a bajillion checks and re-checks that need to be communicated within milliseconds between offensive adjustments and snaps is what doomed the defense. That Dareus dropped into coverage a total of 9 times didn't. Context: http://www.cover1.net/2016/02/20161212015-bills-defensive-study-defensive-line/
K-9 Posted February 16, 2017 Posted February 16, 2017 That Dareus dropped into coverage a total of 9 times didn't.Context: http://www.cover1.net/2016/02/20161212015-bills-defensive-study-defensive-line/ We can also use context for those that keep trotting out the tired line about how Ryan made Dareus a nose tackle.
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