Whaley wants Cardale to be 2017 starter

[DriveFor1Outta5]

Interesting rumor. Regardless of how well he played last year, I can't believe McCoy has much, if any, trade value at this point. On the other hand, there are probably quite a few teams who would give up a first round pick for Watkins. If the Bills are truly in rebuild mode, it would make sense to dump Watkins because he seems likely to bolt as soon as his rookie deal is up, and he still has significant trade value.

 

I assume that this scenario would also involve drafting a QB high and letting him compete with Cardale for the job. Although there is a pretty good chance this would result in a 6-10 season (or maybe worse), it would be more fun to watch than another 8-8 season with Tyrod.

It could make sense to some to dump Watkins because he might bolt. If this is what happens it means that Whaley should have been dumped this off season as well. Whaley built a team that was supposed to showcase Watkins as the center piece. If Whaley starts Cardale and trades Watkins it means that the team he built failed. Usually when a team "tanks" it is with a new GM. They are tanking because the last GM failed. Why the h*** would anyone trust Whaley to rebuild after tanking? If he got us to the point of desperation where we felt "tanking" is the only way to rebuild, why would he be the guy to help rebuild the franchise?

Starting Cardale will blow up in their faces, IMO... 4 or 5 wins.

 

If they are going rebuild, Pegula should've cleaned house, but you know, typical Bills....

 

And if your going full rebuild, why the !@#$ would you trade your 23 year old potential star WR?

Exactly. Wouldn't you build around Sammy? If this really happens I give up on the Pegula's as owners. They would become our own version of Daniel Snyder in my eyes. Before everyone attacks me for the Snyder comparison, I make it clear I don't feel that way now. However, if Cardale started and Sammy got traded I will have lost every ounce of respect I had left for this sad organization. Edited February 15, 2017 by DriveFor1Outta5

[DriveFor1Outta5]

I really don't want to go through a full rebuild. Draft a QB, roll with a vet this year and see where that gets us.

This entire franchise would be a joke if they really think "tanking" to this extent works in the NFL. Regardless of who plays QB, why would you ever consider trading Sammy and/or LeSean to "build a team". This works in a sport like baseball, but not in the NFL. With Sammy and LeSean on the team they are just a QB away or TT playing a little better away from the playoffs. Who's to say that a third or fourth round QB couldn't turn out to be great and take us to the playoffs? Without Watkins and McCoy no one could. Trading both those guys away would give us some more draft picks. That still doesn't guarantee finding a franchise QB or even increase the odds that much. In football you keep your best players on the team. It's not like baseball where you trade away guys for 10 prospects each like the Florida Marlins did a couple times over the years. This is how they built two World Series Champions, and Russ Brandon was there for it. Edited February 15, 2017 by DriveFor1Outta5

[GunnerBill]

Peyton was in 4 SB's to Tom's 7 career to career.

Not saying BB isn't great. Just saying HoF QB's make your team SB contenders every year. Add great coaching and even moreso.

 

Major takeaway was that BB is great but it's not as simple as "he wouldn't pay X for a CB so we shouldn't." If Denver did that, they probably don't win a chip in 2015.

 

There are many ways to skin a cat.

No you are right. I wasn't trying to imply that everyone has to do it Bill's way.

[BillsVet]

I so shouldn't share this. Someone I know is friends with someone in our organization (sorry I'm being vague- I have to). The discussion at OBD is this: Cardale as the starter, and thinking of trading Shady or Watkins or both. Internal struggle is full rebuild, like what I mentioned, or trying one last run with a veteran QB

 

The GM has been with the team for this now his 5th off-season in that role. The HC is entering his first. The coaching staff is set and the personnel group hasn't changed. I could see the front office trying to win-now and the HC saying rebuild now that the later has completed player evaluations.

 

McDermott has no allegiance to the people Whaley has acquired and proven incapable of winning with. Blame that on the previous HC, but the roster is thin at multiple positions due to bad drafts picks, trading of picks, and bad contracts.

 

It will be interesting to see how Whaley gets along with his 3rd HC and if he can suddenly work well with one.

[Bill from NYC]

 

It will be interesting to see how Whaley gets along with his 3rd HC and if he can suddenly work well with one.

When you put it that well and in such simple terms I don't know if we should laugh, cry, or both.

[JohnC]

When you put it that well and in such simple terms I don't know if we should laugh, cry, or both.

Bill, Let's put things in perspective. I don't know how influential DW was in the hiring of Marrone. But it's not a secret that the dour Marrone was a tough act to work with. This prickly and insufferable authoritarian was going to have a short shelf life here no matter who the GM was. Do you really believe that this distasteful man was going to have a warm relationship with the owner? I can't image this self-made billionaire after having some interactions with this brutish guy and not come away with the notion that I got get this arsehole out of here.

 

The Rex Ryan situation doesn't have to be reviewed here. It is self-explanatory.

 

I believe that Whaley was more involved with the McDermott hiring than the previous hires. I don't see the inevitable friction that you and some others see. Whaley as a GM is as collaborative as a GM and as a boss as there is. It's very probable that the new HC is going to have a major input in the qb situation. If the new HC wants TT to stay odds are he will stay even if Whaley's inclination is to let him go.

 

I know you have a very jaundiced view of Doug Whaley. It would serve you well to add a little more rose tinge to your glass lenses. Just recommending a softer tone to your hardened stance on him.

[FireChan]

Bill, Let's put things in perspective. I don't know how influential DW was in the hiring of Marrone. But it's not a secret that the dour Marrone was a tough act to work with. This prickly and insufferable authoritarian was going to have a short shelf life here no matter who the GM was. Do you really believe that this distasteful man was going to have a warm relationship with the owner? I can't image this self-made billionaire after having some interactions with this brutish guy and not come away with the notion that I got get this arsehole out of here.

 

The Rex Ryan situation doesn't have to be reviewed here. It is self-explanatory.

 

I believe that Whaley was more involved with the McDermott hiring than the previous hires. I don't see the inevitable friction that you and some others see. Whaley as a GM is as collaborative as a GM and as a boss as there is. It's very probable that the new HC is going to have a major input in the qb situation. If the new HC wants TT to stay odds are he will stay even if Whaley's inclination is to let him go.

 

I know you have a very jaundiced view of Doug Whaley. It would serve you well to add a little more rose tinge to your glass lenses. Just recommending a softer tone to your hardened stance on him.

But why? Honestly, what has Doug Whaley done to earn the benefit of the doubt?

 

Adequately addressed QB position? No.

Maintain a strong defensive team? No.

 

He has a few good moves, but he's hardly earned anything given his gaffes.

[BillsVet]

But why? Honestly, what has Doug Whaley done to earn the benefit of the doubt?

 

Adequately addressed QB position? No.

Maintain a strong defensive team? No.

 

He has a few good moves, but he's hardly earned anything given his gaffes.

 

He's impressed ownership though and that's all that matters. They will have to learn the hard way that their GM is all hat and no cattle.

 

And if it's the GM who wants to start Cardale, then perhaps he thinks his leash on life is a lot longer than many would like it to be. I have a feeling McDermott is going to fight the same battles his two predecessors did with Whaley on the roster.

 

A good GM is focused on winning down the road without taking his eye off the present day. A HC is more concerned with the now. The roles in Buffalo place the incumbent GM in more of a win-now mode to save his job, while the HC enjoys what I would think is greater latitude to begin changing the team. I'm very interested to see how that relationship plays out.

Edited February 15, 2017 by BillsVet

[GunnerBill]

 

And if it's the GM who wants to start Cardale, then perhaps he thinks his leash on life is a lot longer than many would like it to be.

 

I'm convinced he is on a longer leash than most here would like.

[jeffismagic]

The same Bills fans that want to fire Whaley also want to keep Tyrod because "it could get worse". Funny how that only applies to Tyrod.

[FireChan]

 

I'm convinced he is on a longer leash than most here would like.

Yeah yeah, Rex was too because "we're building something here" until he wasn't.

[mannc]

It could make sense to some to dump Watkins because he might bolt. If this is what happens it means that Whaley should have been dumped this off season as well. Whaley built a team that was supposed to showcase Watkins as the center piece. If Whaley starts Cardale and trades Watkins it means that the team he built failed. Usually when a team "tanks" it is with a new GM. They are tanking because the last GM failed. Why the h*** would anyone trust Whaley to rebuild after tanking? If he got us to the point of desperation where we felt "tanking" is the only way to rebuild, why would he be the guy to help rebuild the franchise?

 

You make a strong point regarding Whaley, but I wouldn't call playing Cardale "tanking", because I don't think the intent would be to lose games for purposes of improving draft position. I would call it rebuilding by giving a young QB a chance to develop, while at the same time unloading some unpalatable veteran contracts (not that I would put Watkins in that category, of course). I would not be in favor or unloading Watkins because receivers like him don't grow on trees and, because of his injury history, I don't think the Bills would get enough in return for him to make it worthwhile. And Cardale will need help if he's going to develop.

[John from Riverside]

The same Bills fans that want to fire Whaley also want to keep Tyrod because "it could get worse". Funny how that only applies to Tyrod.

thats a broad paintbrush yu are using

[DriveFor1Outta5]

You make a strong point regarding Whaley, but I wouldn't call playing Cardale "tanking", because I don't think the intent would be to lose games for purposes of improving draft position. I would call it rebuilding by giving a young QB a chance to develop, while at the same time unloading some unpalatable veteran contracts (not that I would put Watkins in that category, of course). I would not be in favor or unloading Watkins because receivers like him don't grow on trees and, because of his injury history, I don't think the Bills would get enough in return for him to make it worthwhile. And Cardale will need help if he's going to develop.

I just don't think you start Cardale with the intent of winning games. It's widely known that Cardale is viewed as a project QB. There is no one in the league who thought that Cardale would be ready to start in his second season. I don't think that opinion has changed, and I'm sure even the Bills know this. Cardale was a mid round draft choice who has nothing more than "potential". He had a good national championship run and got replaced by JT Barrett the next season. There is nothing other than a big arm that says he has anything it takes to be a franchise QB.

[Luxy312]

Cardale Jones kind of reminds me of JaMarcus Russell coming out of college. Big kid with a big arm. I hope that the similarities stop there and that Jones puts in the work to learn. I can see the Bills parting ways with Taylor. He didn't show us anything last year that didn't look exactly like the year before. He doesn't throw receivers open. He runs more of a 4-minute offense when he's asked to run the 2-minute offense. He's made some plays with his feet, but that's about it. Where I get hung up is suggesting that the Bills will just go ahead and spend their first round pick on a quarterback. When they drafted Cardale last year, they knew he was raw, extremely raw. They knew without a doubt that it would take quite a bit of time for him to develop. So I question why this front office would reach for a QB that basically every analyst out there says isn't worth a first-round pick. So my logic (right or wrong) on what the front office is thinking is as follows:

1. Keep Taylor for the next two years and continue to develop Cardale to see if he can become what we think he may have the potential to become. If they draft a quarterback in this situation, I don't think they will do so until later rounds like a Chad Kelly in the 5th or 6th round.
2. Let Taylor go and start Cardale. This may not seem ideal, but I don't see them reaching to start another quarterback when they got Cardale for the express purpose of developing him. Same thing in terms of getting a QB later in the draft, although I would say in this scenario it's definite that they should either draft another QB late or look to free agency for a backup.

I just don't see another scenario forming, despite what all of the self-proclaimed experts claim will happen with the Bills taking a quarterback with that 10th pick.

[K-9]

Cardale Jones kind of reminds me of JaMarcus Russell coming out of college. Big kid with a big arm. I hope that the similarities stop there and that Jones puts in the work to learn. ...

Rest assured that's where the similarities end. Unless Jones is dumb as a stump and is addicted to the Purple Draaank. But he's not and he isn't.

[KOKBILLS]

Rest assured that's where the similarities end. Unless Jones is dumb as a stump and is addicted to the Purple Draaank. But he's not and he isn't.

 

Maybe it makes me a bad person...But the purple drank thing still makes me ...

[BADOLBILZ]

The same Bills fans that want to fire Whaley also want to keep Tyrod because "it could get worse". Funny how that only applies to Tyrod.

 

 

Easier to change QB's than GM's and HC's, Jeffe.

[GunnerBill]

Yeah yeah, Rex was too because "we're building something here" until he wasn't.

I think they nearly fired Rex after 1 year. His leash was very short in year 2. I don't get any sense they are thinking of moving on from Whaley.

[JohnC]

But why? Honestly, what has Doug Whaley done to earn the benefit of the doubt?

 

Adequately addressed QB position? No.

Maintain a strong defensive team? No.

 

He has a few good moves, but he's hardly earned anything given his gaffes.

I have openly criticized Whaley for not adequately addressing the qb position. That's a lingering criticism and a fair criticism. His involvement with the drafting of EJ was an unmitigated boondoggle. Although Nix made the selection he was involved in the scouting and ranking of the poor qb class that year. Taking a third or fourth round caliber of player, regardless of position, in the first round was a mistake that plagued this team for years.

 

With respect to the highlighted area regarding the defense why are you putting the blame on the GM? It was the loud HC who took a good defense that worked for two different DCs and imposed a system that didn't fit the personal he had. On top of that when players were brought in to suit his outdated system it still was a clunker of a defense. That's on the coach who when fired left in a huff with his pockets stuffed with cash to soothe his dumb arse.

 

I have never made the claim that Whaley is an elite GM. Because he is not. But I do see him as being a credible GM who still has a lot to prove. I would give him a C to C plus grade. If he doesn't come up with a good qb prospect this year I will lower the grade.