Augie Posted February 11, 2017 Posted February 11, 2017 It's home to 2 downtown businesses that are still headquartered (up to the sale) in the building. One of the businesses built the building a century and still call it home (wonder why they never moved...?). And no, they were upset that the purchase price was revealed, not that the sale itself was revealed: "The Pegulas' attorney argues that the purchase price of the building should never have been disclosed. That's because the Pegulas acquired the holding companies that own the building instead of buying the building itself. That way, they wouldn't have to record the purchase price on the deed, as most people who buy homes and buildings do."[/size] "Gilbride claimed the transactions were actually a personal tax matter that is confidential under state law, because the couple essentially bought stock in the three companies rather than actually buying real estate."[/size] Not hard to figure this one out. The building's value is added to significantly because of the tax assessment. I questioned WHY they were upset the purchase price was revealed. It's not because it's under-assessed and they don't want people thinking they don't pay enough in taxes. Maybe because they plan to make additional acquisitions and don't want to be bidding against themselves and keep the bar from being raised too high? You said he bought a tax free building and didn't want the tax payers knowing. I seriously doubt that's his motivation or issue. And it would seem his attorney has a valid point.
purple haze Posted February 12, 2017 Posted February 12, 2017 (edited) i agree no doubt about that. a few beers and dogs.. used to be the norm.. a few have wrecked it and not trying to be be the "get off my lawn": guy but its a shame .. i would love a heinz field open air if it has to be downtown.. but again realize the realities .. You might get your wish. I'm not convinced a retractable roof is a definite happening, in spite of the common assumption that it will be. It is a wish I share with you that the Bills stay outdoors, and Heinz Field or the Seahawks stadiums are the perfect models for that. If we do get a roof, Lucas Oil is a good model, but I would need more natural light than even that facility provides. Something like Minnesota would be better in terms of the use of glass. I would also need the roof to actually be open often. It seems many of these indoor facilities rarely open the roof, even on a nice weather day, Edited February 12, 2017 by purple haze
Mr. WEO Posted February 12, 2017 Posted February 12, 2017 I questioned WHY they were upset the purchase price was revealed. It's not because it's under-assessed and they don't want people thinking they don't pay enough in taxes. Maybe because they plan to make additional acquisitions and don't want to be bidding against themselves and keep the bar from being raised too high? You said he bought a tax free building and didn't want the tax payers knowing. I seriously doubt that's his motivation or issue. And it would seem his attorney has a valid point. Bidding against themselves? Anyway, any entity looking to also buy property in that area already know what those places are worth. The original post by Kirby suggested that, perhaps through some act of altruism, Pegula wildly overpaid for a building "worth" nearly nothing. Clearly this is not the case. It is more likely he got quite a deal unloading these properties from the families that were looking to cash out. Unless all the other properties are also owned by mom and pop holding companies which would permit secret purchases by Pegula holding companies, he's going to pay market value for any other purchases. This was likely a one off. The nearly tax free building(s) he just bought were priced with those tiny taxes in mind----no different form when you or I would consider when buying a house. The higher tax lowers the value of the home.
Augie Posted February 12, 2017 Posted February 12, 2017 Bidding against themselves? Anyway, any entity looking to also buy property in that area already know what those places are worth. The original post by Kirby suggested that, perhaps through some act of altruism, Pegula wildly overpaid for a building "worth" nearly nothing. Clearly this is not the case. It is more likely he got quite a deal unloading these properties from the families that were looking to cash out. Unless all the other properties are also owned by mom and pop holding companies which would permit secret purchases by Pegula holding companies, he's going to pay market value for any other purchases. This was likely a one off. The nearly tax free building(s) he just bought were priced with those tiny taxes in mind----no different form when you or I would consider when buying a house. The higher tax lowers the value of the home. Anybody looking to sell to a billionaire seen as "needing" that particular property for a unique reason will have a fancy new opinion of the value of their property. Human nature. Also, when I buy a house, I consider what the taxes will be when I own it far more than what it used to be. These things change all the time, for a wide variety of reasons. I've seen taxes on a house go from $2k/year to $50k/year when it changed hands. Again, the reasons vary wildly, but they didn't pay more for the property because the previous owners paid less in taxes. The transfer will only highlight the value if it was an oversight (which actually happens), or there's a reason for the valuation. Without knowing the specifics, it's all speculation. What this makes me wonder is......have there been other transfers in the area that have gone unnoticed?
Kirby Jackson Posted February 12, 2017 Posted February 12, 2017 (edited) Bidding against themselves? Anyway, any entity looking to also buy property in that area already know what those places are worth. The original post by Kirby suggested that, perhaps through some act of altruism, Pegula wildly overpaid for a building "worth" nearly nothing. Clearly this is not the case. It is more likely he got quite a deal unloading these properties from the families that were looking to cash out. Unless all the other properties are also owned by mom and pop holding companies which would permit secret purchases by Pegula holding companies, he's going to pay market value for any other purchases. This was likely a one off. The nearly tax free building(s) he just bought were priced with those tiny taxes in mind----no different form when you or I would consider when buying a house. The higher tax lowers the value of the home. Just to be clear, I wasn't suggesting that he wildly overpaid through some act of altruism. I was simply suggesting that the building wasn't worth $7M. Clearly there are tax benefits but he wanted the opportunity to develop that location. Edited February 14, 2017 by Kirby Jackson
Mike in Horseheads Posted February 12, 2017 Posted February 12, 2017 Just t be clear, I wasn't suggesting that he wildly overpaid through some act of altruism. I was simply suggesting that the building wasn't worth $7M. Clearly there are tax benefits but he wanted the opportunity to develop that location. KIrby... Wouldn't eminent domain come into play on properties if all parties wanted the stadium in that area? Other wise everybody is going to try and get rich on dumps.
Augie Posted February 12, 2017 Posted February 12, 2017 KIrby... Wouldn't eminent domain come into play on properties if all parties wanted the stadium in that area? Other wise everybody is going to try and get rich on dumps. Good thought, but I think it's far too early to be even thinking of that route. There's no public plan yet (so it can't be pursued), but it doesn't hurt to begin acquiring properties if you can. Maybe this is more Pegula related than stadium? My background is banking and real estate. I'm very curious about the assessed value vs the purchase price, but I know it varies wildly by region. In Florida or Georgia I could venture a guess. Any informed ideas about WNY?
Mike in Horseheads Posted February 12, 2017 Posted February 12, 2017 Augie.. no idea on Buffalo area, but if they want to build 150 miles SE here in Chemung County it would be REAL CHEAP.
Augie Posted February 12, 2017 Posted February 12, 2017 Augie.. no idea on Buffalo area, but if they want to build 150 miles SE here in Chemung County it would be REAL CHEAP. My guess is that's why they wanted to keep it quiet. It's cheap when no one wants it, but far more precious when it becomes desired, or even if that's speculated to be the case. I doubt the tax bill has much to do with it, since that can change over night. But you could get some home games if they change their minds?
SectionC3 Posted February 12, 2017 Posted February 12, 2017 KIrby... Wouldn't eminent domain come into play on properties if all parties wanted the stadium in that area? Other wise everybody is going to try and get rich on dumps. It could. But compensation for a taking by eminent domain must be just. So it might be better to purchase the properties subtly through shell corporations before a stadium plan is announced than it would be to try to establish a footprint through eminent domain. What is "just" is a fungible thing. The trickiest part of the deal might be father Conway park if the plan is to put the stadium there. The use of that land for something other than as a park likely will require the approval of the state legislature. I doubt it would be a problem but, if somebody on the state's end doesn't like the deal the state cuts for the stadium, that might be a way to hold things up.
dwight in philly Posted February 12, 2017 Posted February 12, 2017 You might get your wish. I'm not convinced a retractable roof is a definite happening, in spite of the common assumption that it will be. It is a wish I share with you that the Bills stay outdoors, and Heinz Field or the Seahawks stadiums are the perfect models for that. If we do get a roof, Lucas Oil is a good model, but I would need more natural light than even that facility provides. Something like Minnesota would be better in terms of the use of glass. I would also need the roof to actually be open often. It seems many of these indoor facilities rarely open the roof, even on a nice weather day, i hope you are correct! and am in total agreement with your feelings on the new one!
Hammered a Lot Posted February 12, 2017 Author Posted February 12, 2017 I want them to supply golf carts that will come pick me up at Hammers and take to and from the stadium We used to do that for a couple of years. The VIP treatment.
BarleyNY Posted February 12, 2017 Posted February 12, 2017 (edited) Why would he pay so much for a run down building? And why did they seek to keep the price secret? The article says 2 buildings a t 2 addresses. Alternatively, why would such a building still in use be so ridiculously assessed (which is different from its value)? That's a tax break/deal the company worked out with the city, no doubt. That's the deal Pegula will get as well. The building has entrances on 2 streets (hence the 2 addresses). I'm sure that their are tax benefits and development plans for it. As it stands now though, that's what they have.I do know that a bunch of Pegulas' people were touring breweries in an obvious "we're starting a brewery of our own" fashion. I expect that this will be the location for it. Would be a nice thing to have near not only Key Center, but also a new football stadium. Edited February 12, 2017 by BarleyNY
Hammered a Lot Posted February 12, 2017 Author Posted February 12, 2017 http://buffalonews.com/2017/02/11/no-stadium-discussions/ im in the minority.. but i say .. stay at OP.. JMHO I would say your in the majotity. Buffalo has no $$, Erie County and State do not want to pay for infrastructure improvements (est. $1billion) so add infrastructure cost to price of a downtown stadium. Pegulas buying a building next to and near their other business make business sense. Why rent when you can own. I do know that a bunch of Pegulas' people were touring breweries in an obvious "we're starting a brewery of our own" fashion. I expect that this will be the location for it. I know Bills employes including The Pegulas have been in the Big Tree Inn. They like beer!!I questioned WHY they were upset the purchase price was revealed. It's not because it's under-assessed and they don't want people thinking they don't pay enough in taxes. Maybe because they plan to make additional acquisitions and don't want to be bidding against themselves and keep the bar from being raised too high? You said he bought a tax free building and didn't want the tax payers knowing. I seriously doubt that's his motivation or issue. And it would seem his attorney has a valid point. Sooner or later the info on how they acquired the property would have become know. They are high profile.
BillsPride12 Posted February 12, 2017 Posted February 12, 2017 i dont disagree, lot of good times there. but frankly, id rather go back to the FOOTBALL being the main draw instead of the debauchery in the parking lots. give me a winning team i can have fun watching, i can stand outside and drink anytime i want. So when the Bills were a dominant team back in the late 80s, early 90s fans weren't out in the parking lots partying? (I agree that nowadays that some of the younger kids are beyond obnoxious at an all time high new level but I think that's more of a generational thing and I don't think a winning team stops the hardcore tailgating, I think It might actually make it worse)
DrDawkinstein Posted February 12, 2017 Posted February 12, 2017 So when the Bills were a dominant team back in the late 80s, early 90s fans weren't out in the parking lots partying? (I agree that nowadays that some of the younger kids are beyond obnoxious at an all time high new level but I think that's more of a generational thing and I don't think a winning team stops the hardcore tailgating, I think It might actually make it worse) Nice strawman, but not at all what I said. Of course people were tailgating, and there was probably some nonsense going on. But were people setting themselves on fire and jumping through tables? Were they drinking shots out of girls asses and trading jerseys for blowjobs? Face it, our current tailgating is in the news more than our actual team. THAT is what I mean. And if the Bills actually fielded a decent team, you would see the true fans of FOOTBALL come back and replace some of these folks that are only there to see how wasted they can get and what trouble they can get into. Football has taken a backseat for a lot of Bills fans on Sundays. I hear it all the time: "Man, the Bills sure ruined a great tailgate party". It's not generational, it's that people dont really care about the game anymore because the team has conditioned us not to.
Direhard Fan Posted February 12, 2017 Posted February 12, 2017 I miss the Rock Pile. .50 to protect your car. .99 six packs. $1.00 to get in and than sit on the steps at the 50 yard line. Or sometimes sneak in thru the fence and sit at the 50 with the beer. Those were good times. We need to get back to those days.
Kirby Jackson Posted February 12, 2017 Posted February 12, 2017 I miss the Rock Pile. .50 to protect your car. .99 six packs. $1.00 to get in and than sit on the steps at the 50 yard line. Or sometimes sneak in thru the fence and sit at the 50 with the beer. Those were good times. We need to get back to those days. The new Atlanta stadium is offering $2 hot dogs, $5 beers, $2 bottomless soft drinks.
Mike in Horseheads Posted February 12, 2017 Posted February 12, 2017 The new Atlanta stadium is offering $2 hot dogs, $5 beers, $2 bottomless soft drinks. Whats the PSL cost to get the "privilege" to but a ticket?
Kirby Jackson Posted February 12, 2017 Posted February 12, 2017 Whats the PSL cost to get the "privilege" to but a ticket?They are as low as $500 and as high as $45k. PSL's don't bother me. Colleges have been doing it for YEARS and that wasn't to finance the amenities of the donors. It's to finance other areas of the school. At least with PSL's you are paying for the stadium that you are attending.
Recommended Posts