dezertbill Posted February 15, 2017 Posted February 15, 2017 (edited) Taylor restructuring his deal for less money makes no sense. Throw the $30 million number aside. His salary average over the next five years is a shade under $17 million. Osweillers deal originally averaged $18 million and currently averages $20 million it's final 3 seasons with $37 million gtd. For a guy who had a half season of experience vs a guy with two seasons under his belt. Taylor's completion percentage is better than Osweilers pre 2016 and his Td/int ratio along with QB rating is way better than Osweilers before this Osweilers train wreck in 2016. Add Taylor's crazy elusiveness and it's a no brainer he's worth more on the market than the deal Osweilers signed. It's clear for a QB starved league that Taylor will get more guaranteed money and a greater average salary if he hits the open market. He will also go to a team that will want and expect him to start, maybe even guaranteeing it. Right now I can imagine trust being an issue between Bills and Taylor. The money isn't the issue for Buffalo, it's the commitment. Taylor's knows this. If they accept the option then the Bills will be committed to TT as their starting QB. If not then he will want to go to a team who will not only pay him more, but will be committed to him as their starter. So for me the restructuring thing is nonsense. Either you pay him the money you signed him for or he'll get more elsewhere. Some say that Taylor is open to shifting the money for cap purposes without losing a dime. But to physically take less will never happen. It's in Whaleys court. Either you feel he's the guy or he isn't. Edited February 15, 2017 by dezertbill
Kirby Jackson Posted February 15, 2017 Posted February 15, 2017 No brainer for Bills. His contract will be restructured and you're 100% correct. He's the starter on opening day.I'm saying anywhere. Old School is contending he will be a back-up. I don't even think that's on the table. It may not be here but he will certainly be starting. There are like 7 open QB jobs. This is the easiest of the bets I've made (if he agrees).
Dorkington Posted February 15, 2017 Posted February 15, 2017 Fitz and Taylor are the same. I'd love to see an in depth analysis on how you reached this conclusion.
FireChan Posted February 15, 2017 Posted February 15, 2017 I'd love to see an in depth analysis on how you reached this conclusion. They are 22-30 guys. Good enough that they aren't the worst. Not good enough to do anything notable. The best backups/fringe starters.
ndirish1978 Posted February 15, 2017 Posted February 15, 2017 If I'm TT I have no motivation to take less money. If the FO were intelligent and they want to keep him they should forget about trying to reduce his salary and just negotiate something to help his cap hit.
PolishDave Posted February 15, 2017 Posted February 15, 2017 If I'm TT I have no motivation to take less money. If the FO were intelligent and they want to keep him they should forget about trying to reduce his salary and just negotiate something to help his cap hit. If they are paying him the same amount of money, then it is going to hit the cap at some point during his contract. All you would be doing is changing which amount hits which year(s). And the only way he likely agrees to do it is if you want to pay him more money up front than he is already getting which is what people are already bitching about, saying he isn't worth the average amount he is already scheduled to collect if the option is picked up.
dezertbill Posted February 15, 2017 Posted February 15, 2017 (edited) If TT hits the open market expect a 5 year deal at $95-$100 million with at least $40-$45 mil guaranteed. He'll also be assuming the starting QB role, which is obvious for a guy you pay that much money too. That's what DW is competing with and he knows this. Besides, if Whaley feels TT isn't the answer, keeping him for anything close to that kind of money makes no sense for a guy who might be riding the bench. That money can go toward other positions to help the guy you give the job too. Edited February 15, 2017 by dezertbill
jeffismagic Posted February 15, 2017 Posted February 15, 2017 (edited) The big difference is that there is no chance Taylor falls off the cliff like Fitz did. Fitz has been a turnover machine for years. He played well in 2015 but the possibility was always there that he became terrible. That doesn't exist with Tyrod. He has 47 TDs and 12 INTs in 29 games. It is possible that he is at his ceiling and doesn't get any better. If that is the case you are still looking at 26 TDs and 6 INTs with roughly 250 all-purpose yards. The Bills will win some games and will be somewhere between 6-10 wins. They can become the 2016 Jets with Tyrod. The argument to get rid of TT isn't the Bills may be really bad with him. The reason to get rid of him is that if you are always going to be between 6 - 10 wins what difference does it make? I think that you said something spot on in one of these threads. You said that the Bills had playoff talent but they would be eliminated in the 1st round. (FWIW, with the right draw I could see the 2nd round). The point stands nonetheless. The goal isn't to be the Chiefs or the Texans or the Colts or Bengals or any of these other teams that play playoff games but don't threaten for championships. I am 100% with you in that is who this team is (without incompetent coaching). So it goes back around, are we better off trying to get there and hoping things fall into place like they did for Flacco? Or are we better off resetting and trying to build differently so that we are more like Seattle or NE that can compete for a title perennially? I lost that. I won the under on Bob Woods this year. I won the under on Chandler in 2015. I think that I won an under bet on Hogan this year as well). I never really end up collecting on them but it is fun to look back on what you thought would happen vs. what actually did. Another difference is that the Jets won 10 games the prior year. The Bills won 7 games last year. They don't have to "fall off a cliff". 6 wins paying a bridge QB 30 million would be an unmitigated disaster. And my evaluation of Bills being a playoff team was past tense. They could have made the playoffs if they hired Hue Jackson and played a 4-3 defense a couple years ago. Unfortunately that was their talent peak and they have been on the decline in talent and this year with all the pending free agents they are not even close to a playoff team with or without Tyrod. Edited February 15, 2017 by jeffismagic
Kirby Jackson Posted February 15, 2017 Posted February 15, 2017 Another difference is that the Jets won 10 games the prior year. The Bills won 7 games last year. They don't have to "fall off a cliff". 6 wins paying a bridge QB 30 million would be an unmitigated disaster. And my evaluation of Bills being a playoff team was past tense. They could have made the playoffs if they hired Hue Jackson and played a 4-3 defense a couple years ago. Unfortunately that was their talent peak and they have been on the decline in talent and this year with all the pending free agents they are not even close to a playoff team with or without Tyrod. Maybe not but a missed 56 yarder in week 16 and they were probably a playoff team this year. The defense gave up 17 TDs ON 18 REDZONE POSSESSIONS!! Let that sink in for a moment. I don't know for a fact, but that MAY be the worst stretch in NFL history!! The Ryan brothers down there were an unmitigated disaster. It's not unreasonable, at all, to think that the defense takes a few steps forward, the offense healthy and a better kicker and the Bills are a 10 win team. It isn't like we are talking about the Browns. The Bills had a positive point differential (and a very high one for most of the year). The FA situation changes things some as does the tougher schedule. They are going to either pay or lose guys like Zach Brown, Tyrod, Gilmore, and Lorax. In addition, Kyle, Shady, Wood and Incognito are all a year older. If you couple that with the pending health of Aaron Williams, I agree that they look like a team on the decline. It isn't even really a stretch to think that the improvements from the 1st paragraph have a greater impact than the concerns from this paragraph.
BADOLBILZ Posted February 15, 2017 Posted February 15, 2017 Maybe not but a missed 56 yarder in week 16 and they were probably a playoff team this year. The defense gave up 17 TDs ON 18 REDZONE POSSESSIONS!! Let that sink in for a moment. I don't know for a fact, but that MAY be the worst stretch in NFL history!! The Ryan brothers down there were an unmitigated disaster. It's not unreasonable, at all, to think that the defense takes a few steps forward, the offense healthy and a better kicker and the Bills are a 10 win team. It isn't like we are talking about the Browns. The Bills had a positive point differential (and a very high one for most of the year). One other point that is never mentioned wrt Taylor's lack of big production in the passing game this year was the palpable sense that there was NO ROOM FOR ERROR with regard to taking chances. This could be gone over in great detail but when 1 turnover will almost certainly cost you a game you are going to be very careful who you risk "tips and overthrows" with.
GunnerBill Posted February 15, 2017 Posted February 15, 2017 (edited) One other point that is never mentioned wrt Taylor's lack of big production in the passing game this year was the palpable sense that there was NO ROOM FOR ERROR with regard to taking chances. This could be gone over in great detail but when 1 turnover will almost certainly cost you a game you are going to be very careful who you risk "tips and overthrows" with. Hmmmm. I feel that is a stretch Badol. I don't think Taylor was careful because of his defense. I think that is just who he is. I might be wrong.... but I think that is him. I just don't feel like he sees the field well enough. Edited February 15, 2017 by GunnerBill
FireChan Posted February 15, 2017 Posted February 15, 2017 Hmmmm. I feel that is a stretch Badol. I don't think Taylor was careful because of his defense. I think that is just who he is. I might be wrong.... but I think that is him. I just don't feel like he sees the field well enough. There's always an excuse for why QB's are afraid to throw the ball. With EJ, it was Marrone's fault.
Direhard Fan Posted February 15, 2017 Posted February 15, 2017 We keep bashing TT. The man had no receivers on a consistant basis. Number one team in rushing was part him. His deal really isn't that much. He doesn't make a lot of errors. He has a lot more plus than minus points. There are not any majic people out there to be better than him for us this year. Pay the man and tell him now so he can be the leader of our team starting day one. There is no need to keep him in the dark. Part of this teams problem is a great lack of communication. Shame on us.
John from Riverside Posted February 15, 2017 Posted February 15, 2017 One other point that is never mentioned wrt Taylor's lack of big production in the passing game this year was the palpable sense that there was NO ROOM FOR ERROR with regard to taking chances. This could be gone over in great detail but when 1 turnover will almost certainly cost you a game you are going to be very careful who you risk "tips and overthrows" with. gotta factor to who he was throwing to as well there were games when goodwin was the primary wr...that guy silply does not fight for the ball
BADOLBILZ Posted February 15, 2017 Posted February 15, 2017 (edited) Hmmmm. I feel that is a stretch Badol. I don't think Taylor was careful because of his defense. I think that is just who he is. I might be wrong.... but I think that is him. I just don't feel like he sees the field well enough. As I said.......look at Taylor's ypa in the 8 games without Sammy Watkins active.......some throws are more worth it to him than others. The fact that they were 7th in the league in scoring and had the fewest turnovers until Tyrod got benched and they were still on the outside of the playoffs looking in speaks to the gravity of not turning the football over......there was no room for a fumble or a pic 6. As Kirby said.......17 TD's in 18 redzone possessions........if that doesn't underscore the need to not turn the ball over nothing does. Edited February 15, 2017 by #BADOL
jeffismagic Posted February 15, 2017 Posted February 15, 2017 (edited) Maybe not but a missed 56 yarder in week 16 and they were probably a playoff team this year. The defense gave up 17 TDs ON 18 REDZONE POSSESSIONS!! Let that sink in for a moment. I don't know for a fact, but that MAY be the worst stretch in NFL history!! The Ryan brothers down there were an unmitigated disaster. It's not unreasonable, at all, to think that the defense takes a few steps forward, the offense healthy and a better kicker and the Bills are a 10 win team. It isn't like we are talking about the Browns. The Bills had a positive point differential (and a very high one for most of the year). The FA situation changes things some as does the tougher schedule. They are going to either pay or lose guys like Zach Brown, Tyrod, Gilmore, and Lorax. In addition, Kyle, Shady, Wood and Incognito are all a year older. If you couple that with the pending health of Aaron Williams, I agree that they look like a team on the decline. It isn't even really a stretch to think that the improvements from the 1st paragraph have a greater impact than the concerns from this paragraph. To think the defense is going to improve just because Rex is gone is more hope than anything. I do think players like Dareus will be better in the 4-3 but then there are players that will not play as well. Continuity is a good thing, just changing the scheme means you are starting over on defense. Can you tell me who will call the plays on defense? No? But that will be an improvement. Color me skeptical. On offense the schemes will change as well. Bills were running Roman's scheme with Anthony Lynn calling the plays. Now that scheme is gone and Anthony Lynn is the head coach for another team. I like Kubiak. Who knows how good Dennison is and who is to say he will do better with a Tyrod than Roman/A Lynn? Way too much faith in scheme change helping on D while saying the scheme change on O will be an improvement as well. It sounds like faith and not reason. Edited February 15, 2017 by jeffismagic
John from Riverside Posted February 15, 2017 Posted February 15, 2017 (edited) To think the defense is going to improve just because Rex is gone is more hope than anything. I do think players like Dareus will be better in the 4-3 but then there are players that will not play as well. Continuity is a good thing, just changing the scheme means you are starting over on defense. Can you tell me who will call the plays on defense? No? But that will be an improvement. Color me skeptical. On offense the schemes will change as well. Bills were running Roman's scheme with Anthony Lynn calling the plays. Now that scheme is gone and Anthony Lynn is the head coach for another team. I like Kubiak. Who knows how good Dennison is and who is to say he will do better with a Tyrod than Roman/A Lynn? Way too much faith in scheme change helping on D while saying the scheme change on O will be an improvement as well. It sounds like faith and not reason. its all about finding out WHY the defense fell off so badly i think when players are asked about it yur gonner hear terms like communication in a position to make plays less thinking more agressive Edited February 15, 2017 by John from Hemet
FireChan Posted February 15, 2017 Posted February 15, 2017 its all about finding out Rex just needs to get his guys, am I right John?
BADOLBILZ Posted February 15, 2017 Posted February 15, 2017 To think the defense is going to improve just because Rex is gone is more hope than anything. I do think players like Dareus will be better in the 4-3 but then there are players that will not play as well. Continuity is a good thing, just changing the scheme means you are starting over on defense. Can you tell me who will call the plays on defense? No? But that will be an improvement. Color me skeptical. On offense the schemes will change as well. Bills were running Roman's scheme with Anthony Lynn calling the plays. Now that scheme is gone and Anthony Lynn is the head coach for another team. I like Kubiak. Who knows how good Dennison is and who is to say he will do better with a Tyrod than Roman/A Lynn? Way too much faith in scheme change helping on D while saying the scheme change on O will be an improvement as well. It sounds like faith and not reason. I think expecting the D to improve from a 27th ranking in DVOA...........when they were rarely asked to overcome a turnover............is a very reasonable expectation. And for all we dog Danny Crosshairs special teams units.......the Bills were actually leading the NFL in fewest yards per return going into the Raiders game...........it's not like this unit was constantly put in tough situations..........Rex/Rob/Thurman were utterly incompetent.
jeffismagic Posted February 15, 2017 Posted February 15, 2017 its all about finding out WHY the defense fell off so badly i think when players are asked about it yur gonner hear terms like communication in a position to make plays less thinking more agressive I expect the Bills simple zone schemes to be carved up by Tom Brady next year. Maybe against weaker teams we will "play faster" and beat up on some scrub QB's. I think expecting the D to improve from a 27th ranking in DVOA...........when they were rarely asked to overcome a turnover............is a very reasonable expectation. And for all we dog Danny Crosshairs special teams units.......the Bills were actually leading the NFL in fewest yards per return going into the Raiders game...........it's not like this unit was constantly put in tough situations..........Rex/Rob/Thurman were utterly incompetent. I don't get where this great improvement is coming from. Is it because Rex was holding back all the talent? You really believe that?
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