Thurman#1 Posted February 16, 2017 Posted February 16, 2017 (edited) so if we lost a wildcard game next year you would not at least have some satisfaction after missing the playoffs for 16 years in a row? i would and feel likr we were finally heading in a pos direction No. I really wouldn't feel any significant satisfaction whatsoever. I understand - emotionally - why others might. But no, being a fodder team would mean nothing to me. I saw them lose four Super Bowls. They won a lot of playoff games to get there. I've seen them win playoff games over the years. Not interested. I'm interested in them becoming a team that's competitive for a championship. Period. As I said.......look at Taylor's ypa in the 8 games without Sammy Watkins active.......some throws are more worth it to him than others. The fact that they were 7th in the league in scoring and had the fewest turnovers until Tyrod got benched and they were still on the outside of the playoffs looking in speaks to the gravity of not turning the football over......there was no room for a fumble or a pic 6. As Kirby said.......17 TD's in 18 redzone possessions........if that doesn't underscore the need to not turn the ball over nothing does. Then I guess nothing does. This is Tyrod's nature. He's too cautious. Which has a very positive result, few turnovers, but also a very negative result, leaving a ton of opportunities on the field. If he took more risks, he would have more turnovers but would also score more TDs and get more yardage. He leaves a ton of chances out there. It's who he appears to be. Edited February 16, 2017 by Thurman#1
ice2145 Posted February 16, 2017 Posted February 16, 2017 Anyone who watches football knows we are not even close to what the Seahawks were. I don't even need to see the facts to back it up.
GunnerBill Posted February 16, 2017 Posted February 16, 2017 so if we lost a wildcard game next year you would not at least have some satisfaction after missing the playoffs for 16 years in a row? i would and feel likr we were finally heading in a pos direction It would for year 1 but that is because of the drought. After breaking the drought from that point on a first round play-off loss is like another 7-9 to me. You think Cincinnati or Kansas City fans really think they are close to a Championship? I'd take a defeat in the wildcard round just to see us play a playoff game (not played one since I have been a fan) but that is a one off. Really I care about us having a shot at a Lombardi.
Maury Ballstein Posted February 16, 2017 Posted February 16, 2017 thr hawks could afford to take more chances cuz they were gonna get the ball back What does this mean ?
BuffaloHokie13 Posted February 16, 2017 Posted February 16, 2017 Wilson that year: passer rating 101.2 (7th in the NFL), 8.2 YPA (7th in the NFL), TD Percentage 6.4%, 4 4th Quarter Comebacks, 5 Game-Winning Drives Tyrod last year: Passer Rating 89.7 (20th in the NFL), 6.9 YPA (26th in the NFL) TD Percentage 3.9% , 1 4th Quarter Comeback, 1 Game-Winning Drive NOT ... EVEN ... CLOSE! We do indeed have a better run game. And a much worse pass game. Maybe I'm missing the context for why only this year matters, but 2015 Tyrod: Passer Rating 99.4 (7th in the NFL), 8.0 YPA (5th in the NFL), TD Percentage 5.3%, ANY/A 7.10 (identical to RW in '13), INT Percentage 1.6% (RW in '13 was 2.2%), Sack Percentage 8.7% (RW in '13 was 9.8%)
BADOLBILZ Posted February 16, 2017 Posted February 16, 2017 This is Tyrod's nature. He's too cautious. Which has a very positive result, few turnovers, but also a very negative result, leaving a ton of opportunities on the field. If he took more risks, he would have more turnovers but would also score more TDs and get more yardage. He leaves a ton of chances out there. It's who he appears to be. I thought the Bills were like 3rd in the NFL in offensive TD's? I get the whole "leaves plays on the field" argument.......but when the drive produces a TD what's the difference if he didn't see an open receiver or risk at tight window throw? Somebody brought up the sacks and sack yardage he had.........but at times he took a sack and then made a long 3rd down conversion. He's a big play QB........the Bills have lead the NFL in big plays on offense the past 2 seasons........if that comes at the expense of missing some open dump-offs that seems palatable.
FireChan Posted February 16, 2017 Posted February 16, 2017 I thought the Bills were like 3rd in the NFL in offensive TD's? I get the whole "leaves plays on the field" argument.......but when the drive produces a TD what's the difference if he didn't see an open receiver or risk at tight window throw? Somebody brought up the sacks and sack yardage he had.........but at times he took a sack and then made a long 3rd down conversion. He's a big play QB........the Bills have lead the NFL in big plays on offense the past 2 seasons........if that comes at the expense of missing some open dump-offs that seems palatable. Yeah, running the football. They are 27th in passing big plays. For a guy whose deep ball is his only strength as a passer, that blows.
BADOLBILZ Posted February 16, 2017 Posted February 16, 2017 Yeah, running the football. They are 27th in passing big plays. For a guy whose deep ball is his only strength as a passer, that blows. Don't highlight a 2 year stat and then quote a 1 year stat.
FireChan Posted February 16, 2017 Posted February 16, 2017 (edited) Don't highlight a 2 year stat and then quote a 1 year stat. Why not? Are we supposed to pretend like TT didn't get worse? It's easy to give him credit for everything but that's not really fair. Even though McCoy almost doubled his carries of 20+ yards from 2015 to 2016, apparently that was TT magic at work. Edited February 16, 2017 by FireChan
BuffaloRebound Posted February 16, 2017 Posted February 16, 2017 I like Taylor but in an NFL where majority of games are decided late in 4th quarter, guy looks lost running a 2 minute offense. Ability to run a 2 minute offense has probably become the most important attribute in an NFL QB. Taylor falls woefully short in that department.
BADOLBILZ Posted February 16, 2017 Posted February 16, 2017 Why not? Are we supposed to pretend like TT didn't get worse? It's easy to give him credit for everything but that's not really fair. Even though McCoy almost doubled his carries of 20+ yards from 2015 to 2016, apparently that was TT magic at work. The stat was big plays........as in COMBINED passing and running..........over the course of 2015-2016. They actually had a TON of big plays in the passing game in 2015. Almost entirely by three players.......Sammy Watkins, Chris Hogan and a few chipped in by Percy Harvin. It's laughable to think that not having any the guys that caught all the long passes back/healthy didn't make a huge difference. I like Taylor but in an NFL where majority of games are decided late in 4th quarter, guy looks lost running a 2 minute offense. Ability to run a 2 minute offense has probably become the most important attribute in an NFL QB. Taylor falls woefully short in that department. Naw, whatever the QB doesn't do well is "the most important attribute" to Bills fans. Rob Johnson was great at 2 minute offense........the other 58 minutes.......not so much. Aaron Rodgers......the league's most talented and arguably it's best QB......has AVERAGED just one 4th quarter comeback per season over his career. TT hasn't been good in pass-only situations like that but the offensive production is undeniable...........and while he's proven capable with or without receivers and pass blocking........what we don't know is if he can get better........he's only had two seasons and sure looked a lot better at the end of the season. Didn't Bill Parcells say a QB needed like 26 starts or so before you could adequately evaluate him? Just sayin' it's not quite as cut and dried as some of the haters think..........it's not like he forgot how to play football like EJ or got figured out defensively like Fitz.......for most recent examples.
GoBills808 Posted February 16, 2017 Posted February 16, 2017 we have a better run game, equal pass yards game, had we played tyrod in the last game i think it's fair he scores 30 points or so and his ppg offense is over 26 ppg which is better than the seahawks offense that year...so we do have that offense May I ask why you're attributing PPG (an offensive unit stat) to Taylor the quarterback (who as QB was responsible for less than average offensive production)?
BuffaloHokie13 Posted February 16, 2017 Posted February 16, 2017 May I ask why you're attributing PPG (an offensive unit stat) to Taylor the quarterback (who as QB was responsible for less than average offensive production)? Like it or not the QB gets the praise and the blame when it comes to offensive production. If we lose 13-7 it wasn't a bad game for the offense, it was a bad game for Tyrod. If we lose and we rush for a total of 89 yards and 0 TDs and Tyrod passes for 297 yards and 3 TDs it becomes about how Tyrod can't win with his arm to make up for a bad day on the ground.
BADOLBILZ Posted February 16, 2017 Posted February 16, 2017 May I ask why you're attributing PPG (an offensive unit stat) to Taylor the quarterback (who as QB was responsible for less than average offensive production)? Actually he ranked about average in passer rating but the Bills didn't pass for a lot of yards........in great part because they were eating up real estate on the ground......in great part due to the run-pass-run option that Tyrod presented. You can't throw a 50 yard TD pass on a drive when your RB's run the ball 30 yards and then you, the QB, run it in from 20 yards out...........touchdowns is touchdowns. Perhaps the NFL should go to a make-it/take-it approach instead of alternating posessions?
GoBills808 Posted February 16, 2017 Posted February 16, 2017 Actually he ranked about average in passer rating but the Bills didn't pass for a lot of yards........in great part because they were eating up real estate on the ground......in great part due to the run-pass-run option that Tyrod presented. You can't throw a 50 yard TD pass on a drive when your RB's run the ball 30 yards and then you, the QB, run it in from 20 yards out...........touchdowns is touchdowns. Perhaps the NFL should go to a make-it/take-it approach instead of alternating posessions? I don't see how passer rating is relevant to this argument at all. And Taylor was 19th among QBs for total points scored if my math is right, so I'm still not seeing why he should get credit for the offensive production. It's like saying Felton was responsible for our #1 rush attack.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted February 16, 2017 Posted February 16, 2017 I don't see how passer rating is relevant to this argument at all. And Taylor was 19th among QBs for total points scored if my math is right, so I'm still not seeing why he should get credit for the offensive production. It's like saying Felton was responsible for our #1 rush attack. Felton's blocking was a big part of our success....
GoBills808 Posted February 16, 2017 Posted February 16, 2017 Felton's blocking was a big part of our success.... We can argue about how big a role he played, absolutely...but it's not up for debate that the running game was primarily the product of McCoy's brilliance. Similarly the points scored debate. Of course Taylor was a contributing factor, but you're hard pressed to argue that the 19th most productive QB (PPG-wise) should be primarily credited for the 6th best scoring offense. It just doesn't add up.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted February 16, 2017 Posted February 16, 2017 We can argue about how big a role he played, absolutely...but it's not up for debate that the running game was primarily the product of McCoy's brilliance. Similarly the points scored debate. Of course Taylor was a contributing factor, but you're hard pressed to argue that the 19th most productive QB (PPG-wise) should be primarily credited for the 6th best scoring offense. It just doesn't add up. Probably because he touches the ball on every non-wildcat snap. Scoring plays themselves don't define an offense's production. With Tyrod at QB we have been in positions to score more frequently. The point being made is that our offense has been top 12 in points scored over the past 2 seasons and top 10 in DVOA over the past 2 seasons. Since 2015: Lesean McCoy's Brilliance has given us - 27 Games Played, 2,810 Yards of Offense, and 19 Total TDs Tyrod has given us - 29 Games Played, 7,210 Yards of Offense, and 47 Total TDs
BADOLBILZ Posted February 16, 2017 Posted February 16, 2017 (edited) I don't see how passer rating is relevant to this argument at all. And Taylor was 19th among QBs for total points scored if my math is right, so I'm still not seeing why he should get credit for the offensive production. It's like saying Felton was responsible for our #1 rush attack. Because how do you judge the production of a player when that player isn't asked to do something? The mentality of some is "yeah we scored 28 points and ran for 200 yards.......but did you notice that Tyrod STILL didn't throw for 300 yards???" If your defense allows a 10 minute drive to start the game........then your special teams returns the kickoff for a TD.........then the defense allows another 10 minute drive.........does the offense suck because they have no yards thru 20 minutes of the game? Sure Tyrod could have done better.........but what were people expecting with a bunch of scrub WR and a bad supporting defense and ST units........the TOP SCORING TEAM in the league? How much more was reasonable to expect? Edited February 16, 2017 by #BADOL
GoBills808 Posted February 16, 2017 Posted February 16, 2017 Probably because he touches the ball on every non-wildcat snap. Scoring plays themselves don't define an offense's production. With Tyrod at QB we have been in positions to score more frequently. The point being made is that our offense has been top 12 in points scored over the past 2 seasons and top 10 in DVOA over the past 2 seasons. Since 2015: Lesean McCoy's Brilliance has given us - 27 Games Played, 2,810 Yards of Offense, and 19 Total TDs Tyrod has given us - 29 Games Played, 7,210 Yards of Offense, and 47 Total TDs We're just not going to agree here. Of course the QB will put up more total yards and TDs than the RB. I'm not debating that. I'm just saying that by NFL averages McCoy does more for our offense than does Taylor by position, and that's without arguing that a significant percentage of Taylor's rushing yards could just as easily be attributed to the run game (as is argued in the reverse).
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