Bills met this week about Taylor; it may be up to McDermott

[3rdand12]

 

He was asked to throw more when running game was not effective and in most games he could not do it but was that due to lack of practice due to concentration on running game, poor pass schemes, WRs (definitely a downgrade from 2015) or TT's ability? This is what they NEW coaches need to determine using interviews (when allowable from NFLPA), game film. etc. Hopefully the new coaching staff asked the old coaching staff any questions they have before they dumped them.

 

I do not think it is a cut and dry situation like many on both sides of issue on board try to make it.

heck no it isn't !

[Saxum]

 

Guys .500 at best. Don't waste a penny on him.

 

Smoke em up guys.

 

Hopefully the scouts and front office are not smoking them up.

Absolutely. However, the chances of a rookie QB in year 1 or even two being better then Tyrod is slim to none.

 

As slim as a drafted middle round QB being better than Romo (who some want us to trade for) yes.

[Saxum]

If we are making decisions based on fan outrage we are already sunk. As Marv used to say.... once you start listening to the fans you are closer to sitting with them.

 

Good news is you are sitting with fans you have great sight lines unlike the Wine & Cheese PSL Stadium some are advocating.

I went to Arizona game and it had terrible sight lines despite being impressive stadium with innovative field.

 

Good news is you are sitting with fans you have great sight lines unlike the Wine & Cheese PSL Stadium some are advocating.

I went to Arizona game and it had terrible sight lines despite being impressive stadium with innovative field.

 

According to those in favor of not picking up option:

• Reps which would have been given to new QB quickening his development time
• Scheme favoring primarily a run first team in a pass-first era
• Attracting free agent WRs who may look at potential number of catches

[ndirish1978]

Yes. Slim as that.

 

The Cowboys look to have found a 4th round gem in Prescott. While their great offensive line and supporting cast helps immensely, how often does a 4th round rookie QB come in and look that good? That's my point.

 

****. What's the downside in keeping Tyrod outside of cap room?

 

In a year where we didn't have the 7th least cap space and have to sign players to occupy about half of our roster I would agree with you. Unfortunately, this team has managed their cap space poorly and are now in a position where they have to actually consider the cap benefits vs production head to head, which is total garbage. This team coasted along for so long without having to pay their QBs and they never carved out some space for an increased payment for a middling QB. Now we're in a position where retaining Tyrod, who is average and not great, actually hurts the rest of the roster. So you have to consider what gets you were you want to be next year. Are we just trying for a winning record and a shot at the wildcard? Is starting a cheap sub-par for this year at least QB who is not TT going to get you more wins because you are able to fortify the defense and run the ball well enough to win? Does keeping TT at the expense of the defense win us more games? Or, if you are trying to build a sustainable winner, do you just scrap TT, dump some bigger contracts through trades for picks and try to land a talented core through the draft? I feel like we've been putting bandaids on a shotgun wound for years and I would prefer to rebuild at this point. I just don't see sufficient young talent on this roster to field a sustainable winner.

[3rdand12]

 

In a year where we didn't have the 7th least cap space and have to sign players to occupy about half of our roster I would agree with you. Unfortunately, this team has managed their cap space poorly and are now in a position where they have to actually consider the cap benefits vs production head to head, which is total garbage. This team coasted along for so long without having to pay their QBs and they never carved out some space for an increased payment for a middling QB. Now we're in a position where retaining Tyrod, who is average and not great, actually hurts the rest of the roster. So you have to consider what gets you were you want to be next year. Are we just trying for a winning record and a shot at the wildcard? Is starting a cheap sub-par for this year at least QB who is not TT going to get you more wins because you are able to fortify the defense and run the ball well enough to win? Does keeping TT at the expense of the defense win us more games? Or, if you are trying to build a sustainable winner, do you just scrap TT, dump some bigger contracts through trades for picks and try to land a talented core through the draft? I feel like we've been putting bandaids on a shotgun wound for years and I would prefer to rebuild at this point. I just don't see sufficient young talent on this roster to field a sustainable winner.

thing is, the roster is loaded with vets on their second or third contract, Whales right or wrong was trying to win now. He has to pay Tyrod.

I do not think any Bills fan is less than patient. but Bills were nearly the best Teams they have fielded in a decade these 3 years.

Of course they should always be building a foundation and drafting for the long haul.

 

another point is Whaley came in after Wilson and found all kinds of cap space because , Ralph was " tidy"

Like a kid in a candy store he pissed some of the future away by being less than diligent.

But he was a Kid relatively speaking.

Grab a LB a Safety a RT, a WR in the draft. Restructure some of the contracts to keep Z Brown and possibly Alonzo. and keep Tyrod while he figures out how to build the the next generation which begins in 3 years

[ndirish1978]

thing is, the roster is loaded with vets on their second or third contract, Whales right or wrong was trying to win now. He has to pay Tyrod.

I do not think any Bills fan is less than patient. but Bills were nearly the best Teams they have fielded in a decade these 3 years.

Of course they should always be building a foundation and drafting for the long haul.

 

another point is Whaley came in after Wilson and found all kinds of cap space because , Ralph was " tidy"

Like a kid in a candy store he pissed some of the future away by being less than diligent.

But he was a Kid relatively speaking.

Grab a LB a Safety a RT, a WR in the draft. Restructure some of the contracts to keep Z Brown and possibly Alonzo. and keep Tyrod while he figures out how to build the the next generation which begins in 3 years

 

I see the merit to your points, I think we just agree on how to proceed from here.

 

With Tyrod on the team we are effectively destroying WR production, starting him at QB is like running wildcat every play. Without a good passing game forget about winning games coming from behind and we likely have 4-5 gaping holes in our defense so we WILL be playing from behind a lot. Just on D we are going to need starters at CB S S SLB. We don't have backups that can step up and play at a high level.

 

We have a single WR on the roster and a RT that we could replace with a parking cone. An acceptable draft should yield at least 2 starters, last year we got 1 rotational guy and a pretty bad backup rb. I don't have confidence we can plug more than 2 spots effectively this year. We have to re-sign a ridiculous amount of players, so here's to hoping we can pull some diamonds from the vet min turd pile again and even field a decent team with the cap space we have.

[3rdand12]

 

I see the merit to your points, I think we just agree on how to proceed from here.

 

With Tyrod on the team we are effectively destroying WR production, starting him at QB is like running wildcat every play. Without a good passing game forget about winning games coming from behind and we likely have 4-5 gaping holes in our defense so we WILL be playing from behind a lot. Just on D we are going to need starters at CB S S SLB. We don't have backups that can step up and play at a high level.

 

We have a single WR on the roster and a RT that we could replace with a parking cone. An acceptable draft should yield at least 2 starters, last year we got 1 rotational guy and a pretty bad backup rb. I don't have confidence we can plug more than 2 spots effectively this year. We have to re-sign a ridiculous amount of players, so here's to hoping we can pull some diamonds from the vet min turd pile again and even field a decent team with the cap space we have.

I was thinking on your first sentence about Tyrod. You do know we don't actually HAVE any recs right now?

Agreed we cannot come behind as we reviewed last season. But one of the arguments was, we also could not protect a lead.

Give The O a RT that can start (FA) or the "move Cordy " theory. Draft a Rec early enough to be viable, bring back Hunter Powell Tate and hope Listenbee can show up. Maybe Gragg can get one year contract.

 

Keeping Tyrod might be more about fixing the Defense. which may mean some acrobatics with contracts by Overdorf and losing Gilmore

Thanks for the good response.

But i think the Defense can be repaired, well hoping maybe. But the offense just needs tweaks and add some more passing theories.

 

ps Recall why Watkins was so good in college. It was run after Catch. Have we ever seen a screen to him? A real honest effort to let him do some open field running? Tweaking the O might be enough if the Defense can get Coached up. and then MAYBE Tyrod is enough to win games

[ndirish1978]

I was thinking on your first sentence about Tyrod. You do know we don't actually HAVE any recs right now?

Agreed we cannot come behind as we reviewed last season. But one of the arguments was, we also could not protect a lead.

Give The O a RT that can start (FA) or the "move Cordy " theory. Draft a Rec early enough to be viable, bring back Hunter Powell Tate and hope Listenbee can show up. Maybe Gragg can get one year contract.

 

Keeping Tyrod might be more about fixing the Defense. which may mean some acrobatics with contracts by Overdorf and losing Gilmore

Thanks for the good response.

But i think the Defense can be repaired, well hoping maybe. But the offense just needs tweaks and add some more passing theories.

 

ps Recall why Watkins was so good in college. It was run after Catch. Have we ever seen a screen to him? A real honest effort to let him do some open field running? Tweaking the O might be enough if the Defense can get Coached up. and then MAYBE Tyrod is enough to win games

 

I dunno. I feel like TT helps the running game and is a really poor passer. He doesn't throw with anticipation and often doesn't even see wide open receivers. We could probably draft 2 studs and they would probably end the season with like 300 yds receiving a piece. I'd rather play a young QB and fortify our other positions. If we hit with the young guy, cool. If not, we draft one til we hit on one.

[bobobonators]

According to Mary Kay Cabot of the Cleveland Plain Dealer, new Browns QBs coach David Lee likes Tyrod Taylor "a lot" after the two worked together in Buffalo the past two seasons.

[3rdand12]

 

I dunno. I feel like TT helps the running game and is a really poor passer. He doesn't throw with anticipation and often doesn't even see wide open receivers. We could probably draft 2 studs and they would probably end the season with like 300 yds receiving a piece. I'd rather play a young QB and fortify our other positions. If we hit with the young guy, cool. If not, we draft one til we hit on one.

you and I both know what TT shortcomings seem to be.

I do believe at all that there is more gas in Tyrods balloon than we saw last year. at times there was more to like the first season . Players have tough years.

 

you know and i know it is not just on the player himself. He is asked to do a certain task.

methinks his was to protect the ball. till Lynn figured out Ryan sucked.

Hence the Miami showcase.

 

Make note my friend. There were politics a going on with how Taylor was "used" .

 

Not that he would ever come out of the tunnel aaron Rodgers, but he could be better utilized. Thats why i mentioned the bubble screens Sammy was famous for in college as an example of a different way to play Offense.

Be interesting BTW to watch Ravens Offense next season ?

Edited February 15, 2017 by 3rdand12

[Fan in Chicago]

 

Depends how much talent it requires you to lose. It wouldn't matter who the name was..... this has been my opinion on Tannehill's contract and on Dalton's contract. We are led to believe the Chiefs are considering moving on from Smith to Romo because they accept now that he leaves them in the same spot. I don't think you commit long term to these game manager types at larger cap $$s.

 

If TT is not retained, Alex Smith would be a great bridge option. We still need to draft a QB this year and while Smith holds the fort, let the new QB and CJones battle it out in 2018 or 19 for the starter spot. Getting Smith will allow the coaches to set the floor on the offense's performance and build up the O supporting cast and get the D back to respectability. If TT is not retained, it puts the Bills in a desperate spot for veteran QB'ing. No way should the Bills go into 2017 season with a rookie and a still-not-ready CJones. That will start the McDermott era on the wrong foot.

According to Mary Kay Cabot of the Cleveland Plain Dealer, new Browns QBs coach David Lee likes Tyrod Taylor "a lot" after the two worked together in Buffalo the past two seasons.

Considering David Lee's track record, I am not sure TT feels good about that compliment.

[Marty McFly]

you and I both know what TT shortcomings seem to be.

I do believe at all that there is more gas in Tyrods balloon than we saw last year. at times there was more to like the first season . Players have tough years.

 

you know and i know it is not just on the player himself. He is asked to do a certain task.

methinks his was to protect the ball. till Lynn figured out Ryan sucked.

Hence the Miami showcase.

 

Make note my friend. There were politics a going on with how Taylor was "used" .

 

Not that he would ever come out of the tunnel aaron Rodgers, but he could be better utilized. Thats why i mentioned the bubble screens Sammy was famous for in college as an example of a different way to play Offense.

Be interesting BTW to watch Ravens Offense next season ?

 

Agree. Most QBs that can run, regress in their 2nd year (Russel Wilson) and they either never adapt (Kapernick) or they adapt and progress (Tyrod Taylor 2nd Miami game). We should be letting Sammy play the Watkins style which was how he was used in Clemson. We dont use him properly. IDK if it was because he is usually injured and they have him in bubble wrap or if its cuz of Romans playbook which has been criticized as being a pop warner passing attack that hinders a QBs progression. Every QB has flaws, Tyrod is not the only one that misses open WRs, he will get better its only his 2nd year as a starter and he didnt have the same level of comfort/confidence/chemistry with the WRs that were left standing.

 

According to Mary Kay Cabot of the Cleveland Plain Dealer, new Browns QBs coach David Lee likes Tyrod Taylor "a lot" after the two worked together in Buffalo the past two seasons.

 

I bet Tyrod progresses if he stays in Buffalo and I bet he balls out if he goes to Houston.

I just hope for my dawgs sake he doesnt get stuck in Cleveland.

 

 

[ALF]

Will McD play it safe and keep Taylor as a bridge and draft a QB high this year or next ?

 

Will McD go with a cheaper bridge , trade down for more picks and go for a QB later or next season ?

 

This season is iffy with new coaches , playbook , player turnover , clean up the mess Rex left.

[3rdand12]

Will McD play it safe and keep Taylor as a bridge and draft a QB high this year or next ?

 

Will McD go with a cheaper bridge , trade down for more picks and go for a QB later or next season ?

 

This season is iffy with new coaches , playbook , player turnover , clean up the mess Rex left.

This just in, McD fixes the Defense enough to rank middle of the pack, gets ST up the chart ( both should be low hanging fruit ) and keeps the offense together, TT being one. Shady being the other, add some healthy receivers the team instantly is viable.

 

Has anybody seen the bridge ? where's the damn bridge?

F the bridge.

Give Tt his third season to get his bad self tightened up.

[reddogblitz]

This just in, McD fixes the Defense enough to rank middle of the pack, gets ST up the chart ( both should be low hanging fruit ) and keeps the offense together, TT being one. Shady being the other, add some healthy receivers the team instantly is viable.

 

Has anybody seen the bridge ? where's the damn bridge?

F the bridge.

Give Tt his third season to get his bad self tightened up.

I like your attitude.

[Thurman#1]

 

Agree. Most QBs that can run, regress in their 2nd year (Russel Wilson) and they either never adapt (Kapernick) or they adapt and progress (Tyrod Taylor 2nd Miami game). We should be letting Sammy play the Watkins style which was how he was used in Clemson. We dont use him properly. IDK if it was because he is usually injured and they have him in bubble wrap or if its cuz of Romans playbook which has been criticized as being a pop warner passing attack that hinders a QBs progression. Every QB has flaws, Tyrod is not the only one that misses open WRs, he will get better its only his 2nd year as a starter and he didnt have the same level of comfort/confidence/chemistry with the WRs that were left standing.

 

 

I bet Tyrod progresses if he stays in Buffalo and I bet he balls out if he goes to Houston.

I just hope for my dawgs sake he doesnt get stuck in Cleveland.

 

 

 

 

 

Russell Wilson didn't regress in his second year. From 64.1 to 63.1% in completions percentage, an improvement in Y/A. From 26 TDs and 10 INTs to 26 TDs and 9 INTs. A miniscule improvement in passer rating. A slight improvement in yards per run ...

 

Wilson had another very good year.

 

And again, this wasn't Tyrod's 2nd year he was regressing in. It was his sixth year. Kaepernick didn't regress in his second year. Randall Cunningham got better,

 

Yes, every QB misses throws. And if you hear anyone saying bad things about Tyrod because he isn't perfect, you'll have a point there. But being imperfect isn't the problem. It's being inaccurate too much of the time.

 

I'd still take him as a bridge QB if his salary allowed that. But my guess is he's gone because of that, and that he'll be backup two or three years from now.

 

Depends how much talent it requires you to lose. It wouldn't matter who the name was..... this has been my opinion on Tannehill's contract and on Dalton's contract. We are led to believe the Chiefs are considering moving on from Smith to Romo because they accept now that he leaves them in the same spot. I don't think you commit long term to these game manager types at larger cap $$s.

 

 

 

Did you see Andy Dalton's play in 2015 when they had a functional OL? He's no game manager. The guy had a QB rating of 106.

 

When they fix the OL there, he's going to show people and probably win a title or two during his career.

Yes. Slim as that.

 

The Cowboys look to have found a 4th round gem in Prescott. While their great offensive line and supporting cast helps immensely, how often does a 4th round rookie QB come in and look that good? That's my point.

 

****. What's the downside in keeping Tyrod outside of cap room?

 

 

 

That's like saying what's the downside of taking arsenic other than health risks?

 

Not that Tyrod is arsenic at all - he's not - but the financial commitment they would be forced to make for him is huge for a QB of his ability, and we're a team with serious cap problems.

Edited February 21, 2017 by Thurman#1

[Marty McFly]

And again, this wasn't Tyrod's 2nd year he was regressing in. It was his sixth year. Kaepernick didn't regress in his second year. Randall Cunningham got better,

 

Yes, every QB misses throws. And if you hear anyone saying bad things about Tyrod because he isn't perfect, you'll have a point there. But being imperfect isn't the problem. It's being inaccurate too much of the time.

 

I'd still take him as a bridge QB if his salary allowed that. But my guess is he's gone because of that, and that he'll be backup two or three years from now.

Right on RW and RC

When it comes to Kap, You are wrong my brother. Its the best comparison because of the Greg Roman connection

 

Kapernick stats

Com% Yds TDs INts QBR

 

 

2013

49ers

58.4

3,197

21

8

91.6

2012

49ers

62.4

1,814

10

3

98.3

 

 

I wont say 6th year because he was running the scout team for life before Buffalo scooped him up.

 

2 years a starter. He will get better. Not saying hes the one but hes not close to as bad as most make him out to be.

 

I think he will be a starter somewhere for a few more years. It really depends on how he does next season and as long as he doesnt go to Cleveland.

This just in, McD fixes the Defense enough to rank middle of the pack, gets ST up the chart ( both should be low hanging fruit ) and keeps the offense together, TT being one. Shady being the other, add some healthy receivers the team instantly is viable.

 

Has anybody seen the bridge ? where's the damn bridge?

F the bridge.

Give Tt his third season to get his bad self tightened up.

I like your attitude.

Beers all around for these bolded positive attitude comment shenanigans.

 

Edited February 21, 2017 by Marty McFly

[3rdand12]

Right on RW and RC

When it comes to Kap, You are wrong my brother. Its the best comparison because of the Greg Roman connection

 

Kapernick stats

Com% Yds TDs INts QBR

 

 

2013

49ers

58.4

3,197

21

8

91.6

2012

49ers

62.4

1,814

10

3

98.3

 

 

I wont say 6th year because he was running the scout team for life before Buffalo scooped him up.

 

2 years a starter. He will get better. Not saying hes the one but hes not close to as bad as most make him out to be.

 

I think he will be a starter somewhere for a few more years. It really depends on how he does next season and as long as he doesnt go to Cleveland.

Beers all around for these bolded positive attitude comment shenanigans.

 

Thanks. the shenanigans make me thirsty

[clearwater cadet]

.

[Thurman#1]

Right on RW and RC

When it comes to Kap, You are wrong my brother. Its the best comparison because of the Greg Roman connection

 

Kapernick stats

Com% Yds TDs INts QBR

 

 

2013

49ers

58.4

3,197

21

8

91.6

2012

49ers

62.4

1,814

10

3

98.3

 

 

I wont say 6th year because he was running the scout team for life before Buffalo scooped him up.

 

2 years a starter. He will get better. Not saying hes the one but hes not close to as bad as most make him out to be.

 

I think he will be a starter somewhere for a few more years. It really depends on how he does next season and as long as he doesnt go to Cleveland.

Beers all around for these bolded positive attitude comment shenanigans.

 

 

 

 

Well, we'll see what'll happen in the future with Tyrod. I doubt it, but you could certainly be right.

 

But you're talking about Kaepernick's second and third years, not his first and second. I'll agree with you that he got a bit worse in his third year.

 

And you can refuse to say it's Tyrod's sixth year if you want, but that doesn't make it less true. It really is his sixth year. And yeah, he wasn't starting. But if he'd consistently outplayed Flacco for those four years, sooner or later he would've started. And that's not what happened.

 

During those four years he should've been soaking up info on how to succeed as an NFL QB. How to attack and understand defenses, how to watch film, how to think about route complexes, and on and on. Which I absolutely assume he was doing. Tyrod has always been a hard worker and a bright guy.

 

It just isn't fair to compare him going into his fifth year to rookies, even if it was his first year as a starter.

Edited February 21, 2017 by Thurman#1