The only Mahomes thread you need

[GunnerBill]

5 teams with major QB needs? Have a word. San Diego does not have a "major need". Nor does Jacksonville. That leaves you with San Francisco (starting a huge rebuild and likely to pick high again next year) and the Browns and the Jets - two teams with a record of being horrible Quarterback evaluators. I have already blown your Houston narrative apart.

 

And we are back on "most analysts" which is what you were saying about there being no round one quarterbacks. I suspect you need to find new analysts to follow because it certainly isn't "most" and they are probably the same people doubling down on their own opinions.

[Alphadawg7]

5 teams with major QB needs? Have a word. San Diego does not have a "major need". Nor does Jacksonville. That leaves you with San Francisco (starting a huge rebuild and likely to pick high again next year) and the Browns and the Jets - two teams with a record of being horrible Quarterback evaluators. I have already blown your Houston narrative apart.

 

And we are back on "most analysts" which is what you were saying about there being no round one quarterbacks. I suspect you need to find new analysts to follow because it certainly isn't "most" and they are probably the same people doubling down on their own opinions.

 

Rivers is at the end of his career and they need his heir apparent sooner rather than later. Especially moving into a new city and new stadium in a city that hates them.

 

And yes Jax does have a big need at QB...they have literally said they need to "rebuild" Bortles...you don't rebuild franchise guys. He may put it together, but he was atrocious last year and regressed tremendously.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

 

Let me tell you what "really happened." What really happened is the NFL too your "this Quarterback class is 2013 all over again" narrative and wiped its collective backside on it. That is what really happened. The Quarterbacks in this class were not slam dunks, but there are guys with franchise potential.

 

I told you months ago that a minimum of two and likely three would be first round picks.

I told you months ago that the first Quarterback off the board would be top 5.

I told you months ago that the choice to be that first Quarterback was down to Trubisky or Deshaun Watson at a time when you were claiming some teams had Kizer as the guy a top of their board because Walter freaking Football thought so.

 

You were taken for a ride by a selection of the media whose narrative on this class was way off base with what actual scouts, general managers and Head Coaches in the National Football League think. Now trying to point out that Houston was backed into a desperate corner? Poppycock. Jay Cutler is a free agent, Ryan Fitzpatrick is a free agent, Colin Kaepernick is a free agent.... if these teams genuinely thought this class was no good there are guys out there who have been serviceable starters in this league that a Houston could have gone and got and plugged in with their great defense and excellent run game. Chicago did go and get a serviceable bridge guy and still wanted to take a Quarterback out of this class rather than waiting to the mythical 2018 class. Kansas City I will concede is a little different - they took a flier on a guy to develop - but they thought he was so rare a development prospect that they trade up to get him. They don't think a Pat Mahomes is coming around again in the mythical 2018 class.

 

The narrative of what we were supposed to think about the 2017 NFL Draft Quarterback class was exposed brutally last night. 3 taken in the top 12 picks - something that hasn't happened for FIVE years.

We don't need no damn quarterback

We don't need no Pat Mahomes.

No swift progressions from the pocket

Hey! Tyrod!

Leave them DBs alone!

[JohnC]

 

Rivers is at the end of his career and they need his heir apparent sooner rather than later. Especially moving into a new city and new stadium in a city that hates them.

 

And yes Jax does have a big need at QB...they have literally said they need to "rebuild" Bortles...you don't rebuild franchise guys. He may put it together, but he was atrocious last year and regressed tremendously.

The end result is that the Bills don't have a franchise caliber qb on its roster. The waiting for perfection is a mind-set that has resulted in us passing on players who are now leading their teams into serious areas where we have not entered for almost a quarter century.. Ask the Raiders if they are glad that we didn't trade down in the first round and take Carr? Ask the Seahawks if they are happy that we passed on Russell Wilson in the third round? Ask the Redskins if they are happy that we didn't take action in the third or fourth round when Cousins was available?

 

None of the above mentioned qbs were considered elite prospects. All of them are now entrenched franchise qbs. The Bills had the opportunity to draft Mahomes or Watson. Neither is a perfectly clean prospect but the reality is few prospects fall in the category of being fail proof.

 

Regardless how many picks the Bills got for the trade down, if Mahomes or Watson turn out to be starters down the road either one of their selections would have been more valuable than the picks received in the trade.

 

We can go in circles on this issue for months on end with no agreement. Only time will tell who is right. But the position the Bills and you are taking in this draft is the same dithering position that has resulted in this team not having a franchise qb for more than a generation. The strategy you are adhering to i.e. When in doubt do what you always do is an attitude that has led this franchise to generational irrelevancy.

[Coach Tuesday]

The end result is that the Bills don't have a franchise caliber qb on its roster. The waiting for perfection is a mind-set that has resulted in us passing on players who are now leading their teams into serious areas where we have not entered for almost a quarter century.. Ask the Raiders if they are glad that we didn't trade down in the first round and take Carr? Ask the Seahawks if they are happy that we passed on Russell Wilson in the third round? Ask the Redskins if they are happy that we didn't take action in the third or fourth round when Cousins was available?

 

None of the above mentioned qbs were considered elite prospects. All of them are now entrenched franchise qbs. The Bills had the opportunity to draft Mahomes or Watson. Neither is a perfectly clean prospect but the reality is few prospects fall in the category of being fail proof.

 

Regardless how many picks the Bills got for the trade down, if Mahomes or Watson turn out to be starters down the road either one of their selections would have been more valuable than the picks received in the trade.

 

We can go in circles on this issue for months on end with no agreement. Only time will tell who is right. But the position the Bills and you are taking in this draft is the same dithering position that has resulted in this team not having a franchise qb for more than a generation. The strategy you are adhering to i.e. When in doubt do what you always do is an attitude that has led this franchise to generational irrelevancy.

 

I completely agree with your take on this. The only ray of hope I see is that it seems they may indeed be cleaning house this offseason and bringing in a new scouting department. If they don't trust their existing scouts to evaluate quarterbacks, it somewhat makes sense to grab an extra 2018 1st and to give McD a year to get his feet under him. I get the sense that this is almost a tank year in Terry's mind.

[Big Gun]

 

Rivers is at the end of his career and they need his heir apparent sooner rather than later. Especially moving into a new city and new stadium in a city that hates them.

 

And yes Jax does have a big need at QB...they have literally said they need to "rebuild" Bortles...you don't rebuild franchise guys. He may put it together, but he was atrocious last year and regressed tremendously.

Bortles will be fine.

[Prop Joe]

The end result is that the Bills don't have a franchise caliber qb on its roster. The waiting for perfection is a mind-set that has resulted in us passing on players who are now leading their teams into serious areas where we have not entered for almost a quarter century.. Ask the Raiders if they are glad that we didn't trade down in the first round and take Carr? Ask the Seahawks if they are happy that we passed on Russell Wilson in the third round? Ask the Redskins if they are happy that we didn't take action in the third or fourth round when Cousins was available?

 

None of the above mentioned qbs were considered elite prospects. All of them are now entrenched franchise qbs. The Bills had the opportunity to draft Mahomes or Watson. Neither is a perfectly clean prospect but the reality is few prospects fall in the category of being fail proof.

 

Regardless how many picks the Bills got for the trade down, if Mahomes or Watson turn out to be starters down the road either one of their selections would have been more valuable than the picks received in the trade.

 

We can go in circles on this issue for months on end with no agreement. Only time will tell who is right. But the position the Bills and you are taking in this draft is the same dithering position that has resulted in this team not having a franchise qb for more than a generation. The strategy you are adhering to i.e. When in doubt do what you always do is an attitude that has led this franchise to generational irrelevancy.

 

Nailed it. It's beyond baffling watching the bills ignore the most important position time and time again.

[Big Gun]

 

I completely agree with your take on this. The only ray of hope I see is that it seems they may indeed be cleaning house this offseason and bringing in a new scouting department. If they don't trust their existing scouts to evaluate quarterbacks, it somewhat makes sense to grab an extra 2018 1st and to give McD a year to get his feet under him. I get the sense that this is almost a tank year in Terry's mind.

Yup, I see TT as a one year and done contract now, now that Buffalo acquired another 1st in next years QB heavy draft.

 

Tough schedule, new coaches getting experience, current QB not the answer, next year QB heavy draft, acquired another 1st for 2018. Yeah, this is all about next year not this year.

[JohnC]

 

I completely agree with your take on this. The only ray of hope I see is that it seems they may indeed be cleaning house this offseason and bringing in a new scouting department. If they don't trust their existing scouts to evaluate quarterbacks, it somewhat makes sense to grab an extra 2018 1st and to give McD a year to get his feet under him. I get the sense that this is almost a tank year in Terry's mind.

This is not a full throttle rebuild but it is the type of renovation one does while still living in the house. When an organization readily admits that the current qb taking the snaps is simply a placeholder qb then that tells you that the organization doesn't have high expectations for the upcoming season.

 

Whether one agrees with the draft approach (I don't. Preferred taking a qb in the first round.) there seems to be more of a plan and coherency to how the draft is being managed. Anyone who thought that with the introduction of a new coach that this was going to be a quick fix is misguided. There seems to be more of a direction than a patchwork approach to addressing the roster.

[HappyDays]

Bortles will be fine.

You're the 2nd person I've seen on here who hates Tyrod but thinks Bortles will rebound. It's gotta be about the weirdest set of opinions you could have.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

This is not a full throttle rebuild but it is the type of renovation one does while still living in the house. When an organization readily admits that the current qb taking the snaps is simply a placeholder qb then that tells you that the organization doesn't have high expectations for the upcoming season.

 

Whether one agrees with the draft approach (I don't. Preferred taking a qb in the first round.) there seems to be more of a plan and coherency to how the draft is being managed. Anyone who thought that with the introduction of a new coach that this was going to be a quick fix is misguided. There seems to be more of a direction than a patchwork approach to addressing the roster.

I don't see it, John. It seems to me like they're just looking at their needs and patching them. Short-sighted, no vision for how to build a foundation for sustained success. Patchwork mentality. We need a WR2 so draft one of those. We need a RT so draft one of those. These are not foundational pieces, these are the type of things that should be addressed in free agency. And on top of it we're giving away draft picks to execute the patch job. Reactive rather than strategic.

[Big Gun]

You're the 2nd person I've seen on here who hates Tyrod but thinks Bortles will rebound. It's gotta be about the weirdest set of opinions you could have.

Why because you think Tyrod is great and Bortes sucks?

 

Bortles is a first round talent with all the tools, makes all the throws and uses the whole field.

 

IMO his coaches were 10x worse than was Rex and his staff the past couple of years.

[Coach Tuesday]

I don't see it, John. It seems to me like they're just looking at their needs and patching them. Short-sighted, no vision for how to build a foundation for sustained success. Patchwork mentality. We need a WR2 so draft one of those. We need a RT so draft one of those. These are not foundational pieces, these are the type of things that should be addressed in free agency. And on top of it we're giving away draft picks to execute the patch job. Reactive rather than strategic.

I guess the difference is that in the past they did the same thing, but claimed to "let the draft come to them" a bit more and for the most part. So they'd end up overdrafting certain players because of need. But it's admittedly a slight difference and after all, they did trade up for TJ Graham because Nix wanted a speed receiver, and they traded up for Ragland because Rex wanted... I don't know what Rex was doing actually.

 

Regardless, they definitely drafted to patch holes this year, which is not a long-term recipe for success.

[JohnC]

I don't see it, John. It seems to me like they're just looking at their needs and patching them. Short-sighted, no vision for how to build a foundation for sustained success. Patchwork mentality. We need a WR2 so draft one of those. We need a RT so draft one of those. These are not foundational pieces, these are the type of things that should be addressed in free agency. And on top of it we're giving away draft picks to execute the patch job. Reactive rather than strategic.

You know how to build a foundation? You make selections that pan out. I agree with you that needs were being addressed in this draft but there is nothing wrong with that if the picks are quality picks. Missing on high picks such as the EJ and Kujo picks set you back, regardless of the position because you then have to go back and address the same areas.

 

When you openly admit that the qb that you are entering the season with is nothing more than a bridge qb then you are not invested in immediate success. You clearly are taking a longer view on roster building. Trading down and accumulating picks, especially adding a future first round for the next year, tells you that this is more than a patchwork approach toward building a roster.

 

My position for a long time is that if you want to accelerate the rebuild process you make securing the qb a priority. This staff under McDermontt doesn't believe that this year's crop of qbs is good enough. Many of us disagree and many agree. Only time will tell.

Edited April 29, 2017 by JohnC

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

I guess the difference is that in the past they did the same thing, but claimed to "let the draft come to them" a bit more and for the most part. So they'd end up overdrafting certain players because of need. But it's admittedly a slight difference and after all, they did trade up for TJ Graham because Nix wanted a speed receiver, and they traded up for Ragland because Rex wanted... I don't know what Rex was doing actually.

 

Regardless, they definitely drafted to patch holes this year, which is not a long-term recipe for success.

I see it the same way. Possession WR2s and 1st round corners in a zone scheme and RTs are high risk to go first contract and out. I'm surprised no QB, no DL-- in the coming years they'll be forced to address these foundational positions and they better hope like heck the right players are there at the right time.

 

DL is vital in our scheme and though it's not an immediate need and it may not result in a "day one starter," it's more important than the positions we reactively patched up. I would prefer to use FA for patching holes, top of the draft for foundation whether they start right away or not.

 

For example why not Taco Charlton at pick 27? In a couple years we'll be desperate for a DE. Putting heat on the QB is the most important thing on defense. A zone corner can be found later in the draft or in FA. A DE that works out is a lot more likely to be re-upped than a 1st round corner in a zone scheme. This team isn't a Superbowl contender now so I'd be drafting with an eye toward opening a window about 3 years down the line, and sustaining it rather than just "what immediate needs can we patch today?"

 

As Jeff has pointed out coaches typically take a short-sighted approach. It takes a savvy personnel man to have a long-term vision.

 

This is why I say the Pegulas have set McDermott up to fail. As a rookie head coach he should be executing someone else's vision rather than directing the entire organization. All of his picks represent drafting for immediate need rather than the long-term. The owners, who I am quite grateful to, have a lot of learning to do yet. Just my take.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

.

[Reed83HOF]

I see it the same way. Possession WR2s and 1st round corners in a zone scheme and RTs are high risk to go first contract and out. I'm surprised no QB, no DL-- in the coming years they'll be forced to address these foundational positions and they better hope like heck the right players are there at the right time.

 

DL is vital in our scheme and though it's not an immediate need and it may not result in a "day one starter," it's more important than the positions we reactively patched up. I would prefer to use FA for patching holes, top of the draft for foundation whether they start right away or not.

 

For example why not Taco Charlton at pick 27? In a couple years we'll be desperate for a DE. Putting heat on the QB is the most important thing on defense. A zone corner can be found later in the draft or in FA. A DE that works out is a lot more likely to be re-upped than a 1st round corner in a zone scheme. This team isn't a Superbowl contender now so I'd be drafting with an eye toward opening a window about 3 years down the line, and sustaining it rather than just "what immediate needs can we patch today?"

 

As Jeff has pointed out coaches typically take a short-sighted approach. It takes a savvy personnel man to have a long-term vision.

 

This is why I say the Pegulas have set McDermott up to fail. As a rookie head coach he should be executing someone else's vision rather than directing the entire organization. All of his picks represent drafting for immediate need rather than the long-term. The owners, who I am quite grateful to, have a lot of learning to do yet. Just my take.

 

Yup. This is where the inexperienced owners are making a mistake. (Great post overall though!)

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

 

Yup. This is where the inexperienced owners are making a mistake. (Great post overall though!)

Hey thanks brother I've appreciated your posts recently too, I see you. Go Bills!

[Reed83HOF]

Hey thanks brother I've appreciated your posts recently too, I see you. Go Bills!

 

Thanks man. It's just frustrating to see us take the same type of players year in and year out and expect something different.This method works for a team that already has a foundation and a core group in the big play positions, we are not that team. I used to think we were doing the right thing, but I was wrong...Here is to hopefully some signs of life this upcoming season

[Buffalo86]

The Giants were supposedly desperate to trade up for Mahomes. We can only hope and assume that the supposed "gentlemen's agreement" between the Bills & Chiefs didn't prevent the Bills from hearing a better offer. Interesting that the Giants later went with Webb, who Mahomes previously ran out of Lubbock.