John from Riverside Posted April 12, 2017 Posted April 12, 2017 was it the offense or defense that held the team back last season? I rest my case Well....I think that really depends on the QB Fancy Yes the D was a big reason of why we got held back....but if we had a FRANCHISE type QB (and keep in mind...im a card carrying member of the COT here) but if you FOUND that special kind of qb it trumps a lot of defensive woes. The problem is.....finding those top 5 guys are like finding a needle in a haystack of needles
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 12, 2017 Posted April 12, 2017 was it the offense or defense that held the team back last season? I rest my case You aren't drafting for just this year. A franchise qb trumiphs everything. Name all 3 LBs or 2 Ss for the Falcons or Patriots. It really doesn't matter because they have franchise qb. And I hate Rex and his stupid system. But we are completely overselling how bad the defense was. It was terrible in some games and mainly average for most of the year. Defense wasn't the reason we lost the Ravens game. Well....I think that really depends on the QB Fancy Yes the D was a big reason of why we got held back....but if we had a FRANCHISE type QB (and keep in mind...im a card carrying member of the COT here) but if you FOUND that special kind of qb it trumps a lot of defensive woes. The problem is.....finding those top 5 guys are like finding a needle in a haystack of needles Good post John. And let's not pretend any of us or the "experts" are any good at identifying which college qb will become a stud NFL qb.
YoloinOhio Posted April 12, 2017 Posted April 12, 2017 (edited) Again, I agree with all that and completely understand this with regards to Mitchell. But with Watson, we have a ton of evidence on the field, which truimphs everything, that he maybe really good. It's a very tough call and Watson isn't a perfect qb but this reminds of the Steph Curry draft. Curry was one of the greatest college basketball players I have ever seen. And the Minnesota Timberwolves took 2 other PGs instead of Curry. Sadly, we have been the Timberwolves of the NBA. To me (obviously could be wrong) the team likely believes one of the QBs they like will be available at a value point appropriate to where they have them graded. I doubt many if any of these QBs have a top 10 grade. I don't buy that all these guys are going early, it would require too much desperation by teams because all have flaws and none appear ready to play. So you have 4-5 teams using a high 1st round pick on a guy who won't even contribute for a year, at least? I don't see it. There will be a run on them at some point but I think it will be end of first, top of 2nd similar to 2014. Jmo. Maybe one guy goes earlier like Bortles did to a rebuilding team ( could be Trubisky or Mahomes to SF). Edited April 12, 2017 by YoloinOhio
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 12, 2017 Posted April 12, 2017 To me (obviously could be wrong) the team likely believes one of the QBs they like will be available at a value point appropriate to where they have them graded. I doubt many if any of these QBs have a top 10 grade. I don't buy that all these guys are going early, it would require too much desperation by teams because all have flaws and none appear ready to play. So you have 4-5 teams using a high 1st round pick on a guy who won't even contribute for a year, at least? I don't see it. There will be a run on them at some point but I think it will be end of first, top of 2nd similar to 2014. Jmo. Maybe one guy goes earlier like Bortles did to a rebuilding team ( could be Trubisky or Mahomes to SF). Fair point. Even with his flaws, I just can't shake passing on Watson and him being really good.
bilzfancy Posted April 12, 2017 Posted April 12, 2017 Well....I think that really depends on the QB Fancy Yes the D was a big reason of why we got held back....but if we had a FRANCHISE type QB (and keep in mind...im a card carrying member of the COT here) but if you FOUND that special kind of qb it trumps a lot of defensive woes. The problem is.....finding those top 5 guys are like finding a needle in a haystack of needles but why spend a high pick on at best a 50/50 QB who will sit on the bench for a season it 2 instead if an impact player at a position of dire need?
blacklabel Posted April 12, 2017 Posted April 12, 2017 was it the offense or defense that held the team back last season? I rest my case The coaching on defense was the main downfall of the 2016 season. Way too many cooks in the kitchen, an over-complicated scheme, guys who didn't buy in, Rex apparently giving full defensive control to Rob in order to save his reputation. The players put it on themselves for not being successful but that's what players say. You won't find many players who will come right out and say, "Not our fault, coaching sucked." There are good players on that side of the ball and McDermott is a defensive coach, he'll figure out ways to put those dudes in position to succeed. If an impact defensive player falls to them at 10, take that kid all day. But if the BPA at 10 happens to be an offensive guy, then you take him. Now, in regards to all the QB visits, I think it's a two-fold process. One, they're simply doing their homework on these guys, and two, they're working to create interest for a trade. One of the more interesting bits about this process is the rumor that stated the team didn't want these QB visits to become widely known. That thought was shot down once a UNC coach tweeted that picture of McD and TPegs in NC while they were meeting with Trubisky. If you're trying to create trade interest, why would you want these visits to be low-key? You want teams to believe you're going to select a QB so, generally, a team trying to do that is going to leak all sorts of news about the prospects they're visiting with. The fact that they seemed to have wanted to keep all the QB stuff on the low makes me believe that they are going to come out of this draft with one of the top five or six QBs. If they take one in the first round, I would hope it comes after a trade down. But by this point we've heard all sorts of different stuff, like: Whaley loves Watson, watch out for Bills to make big trade up the board for one of drafts top signal callers, Bills a team to watch for in a trade up for Trubisky, etc etc. It is that time of year, so not too much stock can be put into what's being said/heard right now.
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 12, 2017 Posted April 12, 2017 but why spend a high pick on at best a 50/50 QB who will sit on the bench for a season it 2 instead if an impact player at a position of dire need? Most draft picks are 50-50. I remember guys like Robert Gallery or Aaron Curry who were "safe" picks.
bilzfancy Posted April 12, 2017 Posted April 12, 2017 Most draft picks are 50-50. I remember guys like Robert Gallery or Aaron Curry who were "safe" picks.true, but still think the greater need is defense and I'm not a big TT fan either, but they can win with him if they have a better defense, losing Rex and Rob is half the battle, now get players there
BillsFan17 Posted April 12, 2017 Posted April 12, 2017 I get your point but how can people say they aren't worth a top 10 pick if they end up being as good as Carr, Dak, or Russell? If you redraft their drafts, they are all possibly the first or second picks. Because you need to assess the value of these guys accordingly. Of course if you re-drafted they would go higher. Hindsight is 20-20... If you reach on a guy and he busts, it's all the worse. This is what seperates good drafting teams and the Bills.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted April 12, 2017 Posted April 12, 2017 Because you need to assess the value of these guys accordingly. Of course if you re-drafted they would go higher. Hindsight is 20-20... If you reach on a guy and he busts, it's all the worse. This is what seperates good drafting teams and the Bills. ...it still is and probably will always be a crapshoot....reaching and busting has been the rule over the last decade at the QB spot versus exception IMO....
jeffismagic Posted April 12, 2017 Posted April 12, 2017 Patrick Mahomes, Clutch QB. Ranked highest in class. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1mwO_4-bIl_y0INGttslwTTOZjZNOpuAxUsnJIaE0zWA/edit#gid=1742864913
Bangarang Posted April 13, 2017 Posted April 13, 2017 (edited) was it the offense or defense that held the team back last season? I rest my case If there is a prospect that you have identified as a franchise caliber QB then you take him. Edited April 13, 2017 by Bangarang
jeffismagic Posted April 13, 2017 Posted April 13, 2017 John Gruden to Mahomes, "You have more talent than 99% of the guys I met."
Ittakestime Posted April 13, 2017 Posted April 13, 2017 What is wrong with today's NFL?! This kid has no future in this league. He is literally a baseball player trying to play QB. His decision making is terrible. He will be absolutely torched in the NFL.
26CornerBlitz Posted April 14, 2017 Posted April 14, 2017 Go hard or go home! Better be right though with so many good players sure to be there at 10. @SalSports I have no idea if Bills will take QB at 10. But if they do they should swing for the fences (highest upside, screw safe). That's Mahomes
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted April 14, 2017 Posted April 14, 2017 (edited) John Gruden to Mahomes, "You have more talent than 99% of the guys I met." ......Gruden has a QB fetish......never met one he did not love.....didn't he have at least seven+ in camp at TB?.....stay in the booth John............... Edited April 14, 2017 by OldTimeAFLGuy
jeffismagic Posted April 14, 2017 Posted April 14, 2017 John Gruden, "He's got incredible arm talent, he's a gunslinger, he's courageous. You better get up there and get this kid because he's got rare stuff." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzKNLvhv-YM
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 14, 2017 Posted April 14, 2017 John Gruden, "He's got incredible arm talent, he's a gunslinger, he's courageous. You better get up there and get this kid because he's got rare stuff." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzKNLvhv-YM I really am starting to like Mahomes but Gruden fluffs all these qbs.
Beef Jerky Posted April 14, 2017 Posted April 14, 2017 John Gruden, "He's got incredible arm talent, he's a gunslinger, he's courageous. You better get up there and get this kid because he's got rare stuff." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzKNLvhv-YM Lol Gruden is a fluffy bunny with everyone on his show.
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